Review of Dolby Atmos BD Audio only Disc and Comparison to the Apple Music Atmos Stream of the same Disc.

TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I have received my first Audio only Blu Ray disc from DGG. This is one of the very few truly Atmos discs and not one up mixed from stereo which practically all are.

This is the disc on the DGG label.



This evaluation was done in my AV room which is a very well set up 7.2.4 Atmos system with all speakers excellent, so this is a perfect room for this evaluation.

The disc contains really beautiful, superbly played and recorded music. The box contains a CD and the BD audio only disc. This latter disc has options for 2.0 24 bit/96kHz, 5.1 DTS-HD MA 24 bit 96kHz and Dolby Atmos. On my Panasonic player I had to use the TV screen to make the selections and keep track of what was playing.

The BD is almost 90 minutes long, and the CD 78 minutes. Two selections have been omitted on the CD.

The selections are the J.S. Bach Toccata and Fugue in D minor, which you will all know I'm sure. There is good evidence that Bach actually wrote this to test organs, which he was often asked to do.

There is a superb performance of one of my favorite works for organ. It is Sir Edward Elgar's organ sonata in G major. It receives I think the best performance I have ever heard, this may be because the sound is so magnificent. The slow movement is beautifully played, and the final movement which is variations on a really catchy tune.

Then follows Three Pieces by Sigfrid Karg-Elert. The first is Sunset, the second Star light. This could latter could easily be background for a Ski-Fi scene.

Then a work I did not know, Balero de Concert. This in some ways does resemble the famous Ravel Bolero, but the composer Louis Lefebure-Wely lived 1817-1869, well before Ravel.

Finally we have three fun organ transcriptions from Star Wars and Return of the Jedi. The Star wars main theme, Parade of the Ewoks, Ben Kenobi's death and The Fighter Attack.

I have one major beef, and that is there are no notes or a booklet with the discs, and there is not much information on line. This is derelict in the extreme.

Now to the Sound. I evaluated the 2.0 DTS and Atmos versions. The 2.0 version sounded excellent as did the CD. The DTS was the worst, as it seemed to have a nasty edge to it, and was markedly inferior to the others.

The Atmos version was a revelation and absolutely superb. The realism was truly astonishing. It was an amazing journey right to the venue. The organ was well focused beyond the end of the room. The reverberations were in correct and believable balance from front sides and roof. What was incredibly good and a surprise to me, is how good the bass was. It was deep and natural. To be honest, I was astonished at how good it sounded. Well done to all.

I then evaluated the Dolby upmixer on my Marantz pre/pro and compared the 2.0 up mixed with the true bill. I have to say that the upmixer is actually very effective indeed, and the results quite similar. However the bass was more realistic and deeper on the Atmos recording. I think that is likely because there is a dedicated sub channel. In addition the perspective was better and more natural with the true Atmos recording.

Now, I downloaded the Dolby Access to my HTPC. I made sure that I selected the version for AV and not the Dolby access headphone app. After download the AV version would not highlight, only the headphone. I got a tip from the Net to reboot the computer. After that, I cold select the AV version.

I then signed up for Apple Music, and the selected the above disc from Apple Music in Atmos. The AVP showed it was receiving Atmos. I am afraid I have to report, that the sound was frankly awful and nothing like the Blu Ray disc. It was thin and devoid of ambience. The bass output was far lower than the disc, and frankly the result was not really listenable in my view.

I am not sure the cause of this. I should state that the result is somewhat similar to the BPO upmixed Dolby Atmos streams, but worse. So the sound of Apple Music at least on this disc is poor.

This is unfortunate as the majors, like DGG are only issuing their Atmos versions for streaming and the disc I have evaluated seems highly unusual.

I have a hunch that this is because these streams are actually already premixed for headphones and not home theater. Dolby Atmos for AV and Atmos headphones are very different animals.

This poor result from Apple Music is very disappointing.

I suppose there are far more headphone users than AV users, to say nothing of stupid devices like Atmos sound bars, and Atmos Alexa speakers. I suspect there are actually very few really good high quality Atmos AV rooms, at present. Given the expense, and architectural limitations posed by most homes, I doubt there ever will be. I suspect it does really require a room and system designed in tandem to really make this technology work properly. In addition I really doubt any of the speakers can be "lesser" speakers.

I think it is very fortunate that the Dolby Upmixer works as well as it does. At least on this rig it compared very favorably indeed with the real deal, which is something to be thankful for.
Lastly I DO NOT use center spread, that is not an improvement, but a downgrade. I know Gene disagrees, but on my experience he is wrong about center spread.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
It sounds like a good time. Keep in mind that Apple only supports Dolby Atmos via HDMI on the Apple TV 4K and even a Mac configured for multichannel output of 5.1.2 for Atmos via HDMI does not support Atmos metadata and will not deliver it for processing.

Microsoft’s Dolby Access app for home theater(HDMI Only) is available for their XBOX Series X/S and I’m sure works similarly if not identically to the Windows version. It will upmix non Atmos tracks unless set for passthrough. But, a recent update to the XBOX disabled passthrough and all non Atmos tracks get upmixed regardless of the setting.

The other issue with Apple Music on Windows, unless things have changed recently, is that it does not deliver a lossless ALAC two channel version or a multichannel Dolby Atmos/DD+ version but rather something like a 256Kbps AAC two channel version. So, upmixing it would hardly compare to the Dolby Atmos/TrueHD disc version.

Now, if you played the Dolby Atmos version on an Apple TV 4K and it sounded that bad, well then, shame on Apple. Any Dolby Atmos track streamed from any service will be lossy Dolby Digital Plus based and will probably not compare favorably to the disc version anyway.

Center spread does not do for instrumental music what it can do for music with vocal. When upmixing two channel tracks, Dolby Surround can send vocals right into the center channel and leave none of them in the front channels. Center spread puts them across the fronts nicely.

Unfortunately, some Dolby Atmos versions center the vocal as well and Center Spread may not be applicable with Atmos tracks depending on the device used for processing. But, again, instrumental music is treated differently and center spread is practically unnecessary.

The DTS results are not surprising as it tends to come in hot and is not pleasant sounding to many. The DTS Neural:X/Virtual:X upmixer is rarely, if ever, preferable to Dolby Surround regarding two channel music in my experience. But, I do like my DTS multichannel music discs. Thanks for the information regarding this album. I‘ll check it out on Apple Music and maybe Tidal if available and if they sound good I just may order the discs.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
It sounds like a good time. Keep in mind that Apple only supports Dolby Atmos via HDMI on the Apple TV 4K and even a Mac configured for multichannel output of 5.1.2 for Atmos via HDMI does not support Atmos metadata and will not deliver it for processing.

Microsoft’s Dolby Access app for home theater(HDMI Only) is available for their XBOX Series X/S and I’m sure works similarly if not identically to the Windows version. It will upmix non Atmos tracks unless set for passthrough. But, a recent update to the XBOX disabled passthrough and all non Atmos tracks get upmixed regardless of the setting.

The other issue with Apple Music on Windows, unless things have changed recently,
is that it does not deliver a lossless ALAC two channel version or a multichannel Dolby Atmos/DD+ version but rather something like a 256Kbps AAC two channel version. So, upmixing it would hardly compare to the Dolby Atmos/TrueHD disc version.

Now, if you played the Dolby Atmos version on an Apple TV 4K and it sounded that bad, well then, shame on Apple. Any Dolby Atmos track streamed from any service will be lossy Dolby Digital Plus based and will probably not compare favorably to the disc version anyway.

Center spread does not do for instrumental music what it can do for music with vocal. When upmixing two channel tracks, Dolby Surround can send vocals right into the center channel and leave none of them in the front channels. Center spread puts them across the fronts nicely.

Unfortunately, some Dolby Atmos versions center the vocal as well and Center Spread may not be applicable with Atmos tracks depending on the device used for processing. But, again, instrumental music is treated differently and center spread is practically unnecessary.

The DTS results are not surprising as it tends to come in hot and is not pleasant sounding to many. The DTS Neural:X/Virtual:X upmixer is rarely, if ever, preferable to Dolby Surround regarding two channel music in my experience. But, I do like my DTS multichannel music discs. Thanks for the information regarding this album. I‘ll check it out on Apple Music and maybe Tidal if available and if they sound good I just may order the discs.
Thank you for that very useful information. I will investigate further. However it seems streaming Atmos is far from ready for prime time. The record companies need to step up and offer Blu Ray discs and not fob us off with streaming only options. That one disc has convinced me this technology has enormous potential. The biggest limitation is implementation in the home. I see that as by far the biggest barrier to acceptance.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
I agree. There are very few Dolby Atmos mixed albums on disc. I'm not sure if it is Apple or Microsoft that is making the bigger mess of getting Dolby Atmos signals to one's system. It shouldn't be this difficult.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I agree. There are very few Dolby Atmos mixed albums on disc. I'm not sure if it is Apple or Microsoft that is making the bigger mess of getting Dolby Atmos signals to one's system. It shouldn't be this difficult.
Well, this whole streaming business is an absolute "Dogs Dinner."

The Microsoft Dolby App, is a mess all by itself. Every time you open it it reverts back to Atmos for headphones and you have to switch it to AVR.

There is a control, for the Dolby Upmixer, the problem is that it does not work. It overrides the AVP upmixer what ever you do, and it is far inferior to the one in the AVP.

So I have had to uninstall it.

However I have had a good "play" today, especially with Apple Music. I saw on the Net, that to get best SQ, you have to use either, an Apple Device, or the Apple music app on a 4K TV. So, I downloaded the App on my LG TV which is connected to my AVP via eARC. Well, it still sounds dreadful, and on everything. I suspect it is still either equalized for headphones or ghastly cheap so called Atmos devices. The SQ is in no way acceptable.

So the best SQ is either a disc, and if you stream a good quality stereo stream using the latest version of the Dolby upmixer on an AVR or AVP.

In addition Apple Music have no idea of the requirements of the Classical music lover. The organization is a total mess and not fit for purpose.

So if you want quality and a good interface, you need to go to performers sites like the BPO Digital Concert Hall, SPCO, and now lots of others, or use Qobuz. I have evaluated the latter, but I'm not a subscriber, since I have such a vast personal library. I can however vouch for the SQ of their streams

If you want high quality Atmos then you need hard discs at this time, but they are far and few between.

The bottom line is that things are very primitive at this time, and light years away from what is required. This is a pity, as unless you are a movie buff, it makes hard to justify going to all the bother and expense of setting up a Dolby Atmos system, although the Dolby upmixer, is the one bright spot, without that it would be a total bust.

I have to say I was expecting better, much better. I will however treasure my first disc in Atmos audio only. It is an absolute gem. I hope more Audio only Atmos discs are released. However after going to the trouble, they might as well include video. I firmly believe that adding video to superb audio enhances the whole experience greatly.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
Unfortunately, the LG app does not support Apple's lossless audio(ALAC) or Dolby Atmos and AAC is used in their place on the LG TV's Apple Music app. The one and only way to play Apple Music albums in Dolby Atmos over HDMI is with an Apple TV 4K. Things aren't much better when trying to play Tidal's Dolby Atmos albums on an LG TV's Tidal app as they aren't supported either. I did have a listen to THE NEW ORGAN album in Dolby Atmos using my Apple TV 4K. You weren't lying about the bass. I need to get that disc.

Microsoft's Dolby Access is a disaster. While it did allow passthrough for streaming services in the past, it now forces the Dolby Upmixer on everything. I use the XBOX solely for games now and don't mind the up mixer on games that do not support Atmos. I can change the audio completely by converting it all to DTS:X with a click. DTS also requires the downloading of an app for access on the XBOX. Just ridiculous.

I do enjoy Dolby Atmos albums using Apple Music on the Apple TV 4K. Tidal Dolby Atmos works on it as well but has low volumes issues to this day. I've been playing around with Amazon's hi-res and it is fine. But, Qobuz still wins for hi-res two channel presentations. That is one good service. It just sounds great. I will not resort to buying an external DAC just to play Apple Music in hi-res. They really blew it.
 
H

Hobbit

Senior Audioholic
Thank you for that very useful information. I will investigate further. However it seems streaming Atmos is far from ready for prime time...
I recently got a new droid and it has Dolby Atmos. I'm not sure what makes it Atmos? I think they're turning it into a sales gimmick. The verbiage reads just like old school Dolby Digital - richer sound, better vocals, full impact, feel the beat, clearer dialogue, immersive experience... All that in basically one paragraph. Now that I saw this, I'm not sure what we're really getting when a source says atmos.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Unfortunately, the LG app does not support Apple's lossless audio(ALAC) or Dolby Atmos and AAC is used in their place on the LG TV's Apple Music app. The one and only way to play Apple Music albums in Dolby Atmos over HDMI is with an Apple TV 4K. Things aren't much better when trying to play Tidal's Dolby Atmos albums on an LG TV's Tidal app as they aren't supported either. I did have a listen to THE NEW ORGAN album in Dolby Atmos using my Apple TV 4K. You weren't lying about the bass. I need to get that disc.

Microsoft's Dolby Access is a disaster. While it did allow passthrough for streaming services in the past, it now forces the Dolby Upmixer on everything. I use the XBOX solely for games now and don't mind the up mixer on games that do not support Atmos. I can change the audio completely by converting it all to DTS:X with a click. DTS also requires the downloading of an app for access on the XBOX. Just ridiculous.

I do enjoy Dolby Atmos albums using Apple Music on the Apple TV 4K. Tidal Dolby Atmos works on it as well but has low volumes issues to this day. I've been playing around with Amazon's hi-res and it is fine. But, Qobuz still wins for hi-res two channel presentations. That is one good service. It just sounds great. I will not resort to buying an external DAC just to play Apple Music in hi-res. They really blew it.
Well, that goes to show why you can't believe everything on the Internet, and explains why the results were just as awful on the LG Apple app. This really is a disgrace.
I have no idea why people buy those streamers that cost a fortune. At the moment they must be a complete waste of money.

As an aside, I hate apps on TVs etc. It forces hunt and peck remotes. The tide needs to go back Windows and Apple lossless ALAC. I hate using TV apps. I like everything to go to the receiver and NOT return from the TV. TVs should be just a screen. A key board is the way to surf the NET, and not the hunt and peck approach.
This whole streaming architecture is all over the place and a nightmare as far as I'm concerned. Fortunately pretty much all my streams can be gathered on my very fine high quality HTPC. I am certain both the picture and sound are better grabbed by my HTPC compared to TV apps.

So until things improve I will use my HTPC and the Dolby upmixer in my AVP and hard discs. It looks as if hard disc is the only way to get true Atmos. And another issue the architecture and organization of Apple Music is another disgrace. What a mess!

This whole situation really is a bar to improvement, as without progress in this streaming era, and more high quality disc offering, this whole pursuit of high quality AV is pointless. That is a pity, as that one disc I reviewed has opened my eyes as to what is possible. At the moment everything seems to be racing to the bottom, with sound bars, Alexa and small subs that go ponk in the night!
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
I enjoy web surfing on my Mac mini M1 with my big butt planted on the couch listening to music and using the LG C1 as my monitor. But, come TV and movie watching time, streaming duties go to the Apple TV 4K. Once installed and signed into them, it is far easier to navigate apps using the remote control. I often press the mic button on the remote controller and use voice search instead of pecking away at letters. Most streaming services simply aren’t very good over web browsers and are optimized for apps on streaming devices very similar to those on mobile devices.

I’m also not a fan of using eARC to get audio from Smart TV apps back to the receiver. I don’t have the TV connected to my network anymore and it is just a monitor these days. I do keep an optical cable connected to it in case I need audio from it for one reason or another. I use my TiVo as the OTA tuner and DVR. My disc player has its own Smart apps but I never use them and it is just for discs. The XBOX is just for games. Basically, each device is used to do what it does best and the Apple TV 4K has the best streaming capabilities and features of the bunch. But, that doesn’t mean I can’t be disgusted with Apple for a great many things while I use it.

Dolby Atmos over streams is lossy DD+ based but is still true Atmos. It’s just not lossless Dolby TrueHD based Atmos. But, getting DD+ based Atmos to your speakers from certain services and devices depends on a few things and is far more convoluted than it needs to be.
 
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