Returning my SR6015 and just ordered the Emo

Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Samurai
Having worked 7 years as a repair tech, including custom DJ equipment, I can attest that power transistors are by far the most common point of failure in amplifiers, but no surprise there really if you understand how they operate.

I think one of the biggest argument for per/pros is the power supply as TLSG mentioned. If you want to drive 13 channels at rated power and still have stable power for all of the delicate electronics, you really need to separate the amp section. A power supply that could maintain rated power output with all channels driven would make an AVR huge and heavy. Manufacturers are making compromises knowing that most people don't push their AVRs to the limit or they won't notice that power is slightly degraded when switching from 2 channel to 13 channel listening. All the more reason to get that extra 40 or 50 watts per channel so that you can make up for the change in performance with all channels driven.
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Samurai
You dirty sumbish! Now look what you've done!

Now that said, I just don't see much in the way of any advantages to using a standalone processor over an AVR if you're using a separate amp either way. I am not entirely unsympathetic to @TLS Guy's position on how they keep cramming more and more tech into the same box with AVRs along with all those amps. They do run pretty warm and the more you cram into one package the more that can go wrong with it. I think his biggest problems are with the amp sections?

If you're just using an AVR as a processor tho you can turn on eco mode and it'll run much, much cooler without pinching power from the speakers. It seems to me like AVRs have all the same functionality, similar or even less distortion, for less money, and no more problems with processing than many standalone processors.
That's been my theory and that's why I have been using an AVR as a processor for years now.
I thought about that other point, can I turn on eco mode and not lose anything sound quality wise because I'm not using the amps at all? 100% won't lose anything sound quality wise in evo mode?
 
Pandaman617

Pandaman617

Senior Audioholic
That's been my theory and that's why I have been using an AVR as a processor for years now.
I thought about that other point, can I turn on eco mode and not lose anything sound quality wise because I'm not using the amps at all? 100% won't lose anything sound quality wise in evo mode?
I was always under that impression yes but I could be wrong
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
That's been my theory and that's why I have been using an AVR as a processor for years now.
I thought about that other point, can I turn on eco mode and not lose anything sound quality wise because I'm not using the amps at all? 100% won't lose anything sound quality wise in evo mode?
Yeah, Gene actually did some testing for that on both Yamaha and Denon receivers I believe. He said that you 100% will not lose anything with eco mode turned on if you're using separate amps. I even asked for clarification in the chat of one of his yt videos to be sure and he replied.
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Samurai
Yeah, Gene actually did some testing for that on both Yamaha and Denon receivers I believe. He said that you 100% will not lose anything with eco mode turned on if you're using separate amps. I even asked for clarification in the chat of one of his yt videos to be sure and he replied.
Awesome, will try that. My receiver/amp is on pretty much all day other than when I'm at work of course. The Parasound amp runs pretty dang cool for being on so much, is a workhorse literally. I don't check the Denon for how hot it gets though.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Awesome, will try that. My receiver/amp is on pretty much all day other than when I'm at work of course. The Parasound amp runs pretty dang cool for being on so much, is a workhorse literally. I don't check the Denon for how hot it gets though.
Check it out. I'll bet your Denon runs pretty warm, if not kinda hot. I know my Marantz did. I'm actually surprised how much cooler it runs now. Still warm, but not even close to what I'd call hot when you lay your hand on it.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I agree. All else being equal an AVR has more going on inside and thus has more chances for something to go wrong.

I do however think an AVR is still pretty reliable in comparison if being used just as a prepro. With eco mode turned on they run much cooler and in general are not as expensive. I even took the fan off of mine after I got a separate amp because it only runs lukewarm now.
Yes, obviously if you are not using the power amps, that would reduce the odds of failure. Having said that, I'm not impressed with those five and seven channel power amps. That is also a bad idea for similar reasons. I would strongly recommend rack mounted two channel calls D pro power amps.

I think the way the world is going, we need to look to building in reliability in our systems more than ever.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Having said that, I'm not impressed with those five and seven channel power amps. That is also a bad idea for similar reasons.
Eh, I'm only using 3 channels on mine. It runs as cool as my receiver. In hindsight it is overkill. I don't think I'll be adding a bunch of speakers. Possibly atmos down the road, but 5.1 is working really well for me. I would totally buy a powerful 3 channel class D if I could get a do over tho. I've even considered selling my Monolith and use the money from the sale to do just that. I dunno, kind of a hassle and the Mono is pretty great.
I think the way the world is going, we need to look to building in reliability in our systems more than ever.
Of course I completely agree. The way it is now is just so wasteful and unreliable.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Eh, I'm only using 3 channels on mine. It runs as cool as my receiver. In hindsight it is overkill. I don't think I'll be adding a bunch of speakers. Possibly atmos down the road, but 5.1 is working really well for me. I would totally buy a powerful 3 channel class D if I could get a do over tho. I've even considered selling my Monolith and use the money from the sale to do just that. I dunno, kind of a hassle and the Mono is pretty great.

Of course I completely agree. The way it is now is just so wasteful and unreliable.
If for some reason my Quad amps gave me trouble, I would place 9 QSC amps in my available rack space. No doubt about it.
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Samurai
I have the Denon in Eco mode and don't detect a difference in sound quality so that's great. Duh should have tried this years ago.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
Awesome, will try that. My receiver/amp is on pretty much all day other than when I'm at work of course. The Parasound amp runs pretty dang cool for being on so much, is a workhorse literally. I don't check the Denon for how hot it gets though.
Actually, I'm using my AVR-X3700H in the preamp mode. It disconnects the input to the power amps, but these unfortunately remain powered. When set to that mode, the AVR automatically switches to the Eco mode.
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
If for some reason my Quad amps gave me trouble, I would place 9 QSC amps in my available rack space. No doubt about it.
These pro amps are so ugly looking.

The best looking pro amp is the Yamaha PX series class D amps.



Maybe when they start making the pro amps look much better, people might start buying them. :D
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Who cares what an amp looks like? :) Especially you with all your gear in a closet?! I think most av gear is on the ugly side, hard to make these boxes look "good". Solutions include not looking at your gear while using it (kinda boring to do that anyways), or putting it out of the line of sight (or in a closet), or even a rack with doors.




These pro amps are so ugly looking.

The best looking pro amp is the Yamaha PX series class D amps.



Maybe when they start making the pro amps look much better, people might start buying them. :D
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
Who cares what an amp looks like? :) Especially you with all your gear in a closet?! I think most av gear is on the ugly side, hard to make these boxes look "good". Solutions include not looking at your gear while using it (kinda boring to do that anyways), or putting it out of the line of sight (or in a closet), or even a rack with doors.
It's a matter of taste. I actually prefer the looks of QSC DCA series of amplifiers. Moreover, their specs are a lot better than those of any Crown or Yamaha:

My console:
DSCF1415a.jpg
 

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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
It's a matter of taste. I actually prefer the QSC DCA series of amplifiers:

View attachment 55379
Meh, still no aesthetic beauties....but similar to the Yamaha posted or even the Crown XLS gen 2 amps (much improved black box over the silverish cases of gen 1). Do you still have your ears on for rack mount/do you rack mount?
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
Meh, still no aesthetic beauties....but similar to the Yamaha posted or even the Crown XLS gen 2 amps (much improved black box over the silverish cases of gen 1). Do you still have your ears on for rack mount/do you rack mount?
All the equipment is rack mount, even the AVR, and both Oppo players at present. See my console added to my previous post.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
Check it out. I'll bet your Denon runs pretty warm, if not kinda hot. I know my Marantz did. I'm actually surprised how much cooler it runs now. Still warm, but not even close to what I'd call hot when you lay your hand on it.
I’ve been using eco on my 6012 for a couple years now. It used to run pretty hot, but nothing that freaked me out. I have a pioneer 1019ahk in my bedroom 5.1. That thing will burn you, it’s insane, it gets hotter than my diesel! But it’s never flinched once. I think people counfuse heat in a relative way. Meaning, it’s hot to them, so it must be bad. Some things just get hot! In fact the ONLY AVR that failed on me was my Onkyo 808. It had NOTHING to do with heat, and in fact ran cooler than my Yamaha AVR, and any other AVR I’ve owned.
I know someone will light me up and say how ignorant I am, but my experience hasn’t shown heat to matter much.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
These pro amps are so ugly looking.

The best looking pro amp is the Yamaha PX series class D amps.



Maybe when they start making the pro amps look much better, people might start buying them. :D
That looks pretty good. Much better than the cyclops series of AVR’s out now. My old Yamaha p2500s is ok looking, to me, but it’s still pro gear. Not so elegant…lol
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I’ve been using eco on my 6012 for a couple years now. It used to run pretty hot, but nothing that freaked me out. I have a pioneer 1019ahk in my bedroom 5.1. That thing will burn you, it’s insane, it gets hotter than my diesel! But it’s never flinched once. I think people counfuse heat in a relative way. Meaning, it’s hot to them, so it must be bad. Some things just get hot! In fact the ONLY AVR that failed on me was my Onkyo 808. It had NOTHING to do with heat, and in fact ran cooler than my Yamaha AVR, and any other AVR I’ve owned.
I know someone will light me up and say how ignorant I am, but my experience hasn’t shown heat to matter much.
I think it also would have to do with overall design/spec to work at the higher heat levels, or even the ambient temperature of the rooms they're used in I suppose. My Pioneer 919 ran very warm (before I knew/thought about adding an external fan) and died not long after warranty expired. Consumer electronics have somewhat a risk factor....such a mix of component/manufacturing variances and design is bound to have various end results.....
 
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