Reliability of human senses

Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
I won't even justify that with a response ;)
Too late. :D

As I was preparing my response, it occurred to me that she had a riding crop handy when you referred to her like that. After combining that thought with my question above, my mind is now trapped in a horrific Friday night double feature. :eek:

Oh, no. Is that a bucket? Dude...
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
Too late. :D

As I was preparing my response, it occurred to me that she had a riding crop handy when you referred to her like that. After combining that thought with my question above, my mind is now trapped in a horrific Friday night double feature. :eek:

Oh, no. Is that a bucket? Dude...
I think when you get whipped that's the indicator for harder and faster. At least when it comes to horses. I guess it's a little open to interpretation with humans :eek:
 
A

Ampdog

Audioholic
Having gone through all of this in one go as some may have noticed, it has struck me that the title is "Reliability of Human Senses' - all of them! Thereafter several quotes have revealed the inter-action between at least some senses. The active word is also Reliability, not presence, accuracy or consistency of. Many (most?) posts then seem to suggest that many people will hear differently (meaning the perception of what is heard).

The latter was never challenged - meaning in fact that it is not possible to 'coin' an accurate rule here! But then, as I have sometimes asked as a designer: For who's hearing must I design? Unless catering for a particular personal taste/whim/'colour'/perception I can only follow what has been established by literally thousands of controlled tests as revealed in reams of reports, what the probable perception will be regarding the various audio qualities. In particular, what will likely be inaudible to human hearing. And this has turned out to be a rather well-defined set of facts with regard to frequency response, distortion, group delay et al. It seems to be generally predictable from practical tests what will likely be inaudible - not the other way round. Designers do not want to 'convert' the audio world to their 'eccentric' (as some label it) ideas of what should be audible; they themselves have been 'converted' by the real audio world to what will be audible and what not. Thus certainly not try press (or is it im-press?) listeners into a sardine can; the variety of audio experiences became only too evident from former said tests. But again: For whose ears must a designer design? Unless one somehow includes several 'niceness/taste controls' (a la Douglas Self) somewhere in the signal line ....

Going back to 'human senses', perhaps we have forgotten the simple high school hot-water/cold-water test? (Three bowls of water, one hot, one cold, one room temperature, one hand in hot water, the other in cold water, then both in room temprature water, one hand says it is hot, the other cold ..... Reliability of senses?? And following, do we have any proof that hearing is that much more reliable/repeatable than the other four senses?

If so, some real reading should be done on hearing psychology or acousto-physical sensing - it is all there. Why are we arguing for this or that aspect of the field?

As to the statement of hearing being the most reliable and sensitive measuring tool for audio - correction: it might be the most sensitive, not measuring tool. Hearing is in effect an even poorer measuring tool than the above temperature test, with relatively poor memory compared to the other senses.

(And as a design engineer that does not make me an objectivist but a realist.)
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
This is very cool.... and one can see how powerful the mind is .. and the relationship to what we hear when we see..

 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
This is very cool.... and one can see how powerful the mind is .. and the relationship to what we hear when we see..




what time slot should I watch for the audio part?
 
Blu-RayDisc+50GB

Blu-RayDisc+50GB

Junior Audioholic
I've heard from many audiophiles that the most accurate and finely tuned measuring devices are our senses.I would like to learn more about this. If an audiophile could explain this to me I would appreciate it.
Well actually it's not. You see, I'm an alien, so I can hear 192kHz. Most speaker system's with DTS HD MA can receive 192kHz in LPCM format with no issues, right? Well, human ear's, it is believed, can perceive only up to 20 kHz. Since the full 192kHz can be played on the speaker's, but human's can only hear 20 kHz, that lead's me to believe that audio is in tune with people like me, but not for people like you who can probably only hear 20 kHz. I said it all in relation to kHz.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Well actually it's not. You see, I'm an alien, so I can hear 192kHz. Most speaker system's with DTS HD MA can receive 192kHz in LPCM format with no issues, right? Well, human ear's, it is believed, can perceive only up to 20 kHz. Since the full 192kHz can be played on the speaker's, but human's can only hear 20 kHz, that lead's me to believe that audio is in tune with people like me, but not for people like you who can probably only hear 20 kHz. I said it all in relation to kHz.
I don't know anything about alien and there are probably different types of them who have different hearing capabilities. I do know that humans can benefit from what is known to them as Placebo effect. They are capable of hearing and discerning (assisted by sight and the brain of course) many things beyond their hearing sense. For example, from live recording to the final playable digital or analog media form, the signal has gone through many electronic processing involving multiple electronic devices among other things, yet humans can still hear or one may argue, see the relatively minute measurable differences introduced by the final amplification between what may be considered scientifically as well designed amplifiers.

So no, you cannot just go by kHz or any other measurable parameters. There must be something that cannot be measured, yet somehow designers/builders of electronic audio devices, just know how to build (and market) their products that measure well against others but sound better (in some cases night and day better) to audiophiles who know how to take advantage of the combined effect of their audio and visual senses.
 
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Blu-RayDisc+50GB

Blu-RayDisc+50GB

Junior Audioholic
I don't know anything about alien and there are probably different types of them who have different hearing capabilities. I do know that humans can benefit from what is known to them as Placebo effect. They are capable of hearing and discerning (assisted by sight and the brain of course) many things beyond their hearing sense. For example, from live recording to the final playable digital or analog media form, the signal has gone through many electronic processing involving multiple electronic devices among other things, yet humans can still hear or one may argue, see the relatively minute measurable differences introduced by the final amplification between what may be considered scientifically as well designed amplifiers.

So no, you cannot just go by kHz or any other measurable parameters. There must be something that cannot be measured, yet somehow designers/builders of electronic audio devices, just know how to build (and market) their products that measure well against others but sound better (in some cases night and day better) to audiophiles who know how to take advantage of the combined effect of their audio and visual senses.
Thank's for your view on this, but I don't think you understood the joke in my comment.
 
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