Reform or Eliminate the Electoral College

Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
In the two months since the November election, we have seen repeated efforts by Trump and the GOP to corrupt the outcome of the election. In all those attempts, they aimed to alter enough Electoral College votes so the looser could claim a win.

During the attempted coup last Wednesday, I kept hearing the phrase "You cannot ignore the will of the people". It made me wonder what is the actual record of the people's will?

Over the last 28 years, among 8 presidential elections, Democrats won 5 and GOP won 3. In two of those GOP wins, the winner won the electoral college vote, while losing the popular vote – W in 2000 and Trump in 2016. Only once in the last 28 years has the GOP won the popular vote, in 2004.

This is why the GOP opposes eliminating or reforming the electoral college. They know they’ll lose nationwide popular votes.

In the table below, I show the results for the last 8 presidential elections. The Years are linked to Wikipedia pages where I got the numbers. Note that I did not show the Independent votes, especially the significant votes Ross Perot got in 1992 (19,743,821 – 18.9%) and 1996 (8,085,294 – 8.4%).

YearDem Pop VoteGOP Pop Vote% Dem% GOPEC DemEC GOP
202081,281,88874,223,25151.3%46.9%306232
201665,853,51462,984,82848.2%46.1%227304
201265,915,71560,933,50451.1%47.2%332206
200869,498,51659,948,32352.9%47.5%365173
200459,028,44462,040,61048.3%50.7%251286
200050,999,89750,456,00248.4%47.9%266271
199647,401,18539,197,46949.2%40.7%379151
199244,909,88939,104,55043.0%37.4%370168
 
Last edited:
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Be a hell of a fight to make such an amendment pass on a state level, tho....
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
Any Constitutional amendment has always been a hell of a fight.

It depends on the political aftermath from the attempted coup. If the GOP divides, splitting the never-Trumpers from the pro-Trumpers, that would make a better opportunity to fix the electoral college problem than I've ever seen in my lifetime.
 
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic Chief
I don’t think reforming or eliminating the electoral college is the answer. I think what needs to be reformed is gerrymandering, voter suppression which disenfranchises large numbers of voters at the state level.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Any Constitutional amendment has always been a hell of a fight.

It depends on the political aftermath from the attempted coup. If the GOP divides, splitting the never-Trumpers from the pro-Trumpers, that would make a better opportunity to fix the electoral college problem than I've ever seen in my lifetime.
True, it took the equal rights amendment for womens rights how many years to pass? The parties could each go thru several transformations in that time frame. Sometime we're gonna need more than just amendments to the Constitution, but I think we'll be frozen on such a thing without a revolution.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
I don’t think reforming or eliminating the electoral college is the answer. I think what needs to be reformed is gerrymandering, voter suppression which disenfranchises large numbers of voters at the state level.
The popular vote of an individual state wouldn't matter as much without the Electoral College. Instead, what would matter is the state's voter numbers in proportion to the whole nation. Voter suppression and disenfranchising large numbers of voters at a state level would only diminish a state's clout.

Yes, I do agree that other types of voting reform must also take place. Take redistricting out of the hands of the elected politicians. Make independent redistricting commissions in each state instead, as Virginia is proposing.

Allow mail-in voting, and enlarge Election Day from one day to a longer time frame such as a week or two.

Penalize non-voters – fine them like you would for a speeding ticket.

And eliminate the Dark Money system of supporting politicians. Unlimited money from unidentified donors is not free speech, it's corruption. (Ask Ted Cruz or Josh Hawley, they're experts.)
 
Last edited:
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic Chief
The popular vote of an individual state wouldn't matter as much without the Electoral College. Instead, what would matter is the state's voter numbers in proportion to the whole nation. Voter suppression and disenfranchising large numbers of voters at a state level would only diminish a state's clout.
Isn’t that what I said? The electoral college stops smaller states from being disenfranchised, but voter suppression and gerrymandering statewide disenfranchises blocks of people in a given state disproportionately impacting results.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
Isn’t that what I said? The electoral college stops smaller states from being disenfranchised, but voter suppression and gerrymandering statewide disenfranchises blocks of people in a given state disproportionately impacting results.
Eliminating the electoral college would not disenfranchise anyone. The electoral college now allows voters in smaller states to be OVER-represented in national elections. It UNDER-represents all voters in larger states.
 
Last edited:
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
I wanted to illustrate how the Electoral College over-represents voters in some states, and under-represents voters in other states. I made a spreadsheet of all the states plus Washington, DC, and entered how many votes were cast in the 2020 election, plus how many electoral college votes each state gets. (I found all these numbers on Wikipedia. You can see a link for Alaska, but I didn't bother entering links for the other states.)

Then I calculated the Total Voters 2020 ÷ the number of Electoral College votes, for each state. Finally, I sorted the table to show highest-to-lowest Voter to Electoral College Vote ratio, for each state. Those values are shown in the right hand column.

As you can see, Florida voters are the most under-represented with 378,130 voters per electoral college vote. And Wyoming is the most over-represented with 89,017.

OK, I admit, I geeked out with Excel. But this does show that the Electoral College gives Wyoming voters about 4¼ times the voting clout compared to Florida voters. Every 10 years, the census is supposed to adjust things, but it can only do so much. If there were no electoral college at all, and we chose a president by the total national vote, each voter would have the same clout, regardless of what state they are in.



State

Dem Voters
2020

GOP Voters
2020

Total Voters
2020

EC
Votes

Voters/
EC Vote
Florida5,297,0455,668,73110,965,77629378,130
N Carolina2,684,2922,758,7755,443,06715362,871
Colorado1,804,3521,364,6073,168,9599352,107
Pennsylvania3,458,2293,377,6746,835,90320341,795
Michigan2,804,0402,649,8525,453,89216340,868
Virginia2,413,5681,962,4304,375,99813336,615
Washington2,369,6121,584,6513,954,26312329,522
Oregon1,340,383958,4482,298,8317328,404
Ohio2,679,1553,154,8345,833,98918324,111
Wisconsin1,630,8661,610,1843,241,05010324,105
Massachusetts2,382,2021,167,2023,549,40411322,673
New Jersey2,608,3351,883,2744,491,60914320,829
Minnesota1,717,0771,484,0653,201,14210320,114
California11,110,2506,006,42917,116,67955311,212
Georgia2,473,6332,461,8544,935,48716308,468
Arizona1,672,1431,661,6863,333,82911303,075
Missouri1,253,0141,718,7362,971,75010297,175
Maryland1,985,023976,4142,961,43710296,144
Illinois3,471,9152,446,8915,918,80620295,940
Texas5,259,1265,890,34711,149,47338293,407
New York5,230,9853,244,7688,475,75329292,267
Iowa759,061897,6721,656,7336276,122
S Carolina1,091,5411,385,1032,476,6449275,183
Tennessee1,143,7111,852,4752,996,18611272,381
Indiana1,242,4161,729,5192,971,93511270,176
Louisiana856,0341,255,7762,111,8108263,976
Kentucky772,4741,326,6462,099,1208262,390
Connecticut1,080,680715,2911,795,9717256,567
Alabama849,6241,441,1702,290,7949254,533
Utah560,282865,1401,425,4226237,570
Nevada703,486669,8901,373,3766228,896
Kansas570,323771,4061,341,7296223,622
Oklahoma503,8901,020,2801,524,1707217,739
Mississippi539,398756,7641,296,1626216,027
Idaho287,021554,119841,1404210,285
Maine435,072360,737795,8094198,952
New Hampshire424,921365,654790,5754197,644
Arkansas423,932760,6471,184,5796197,430
Montana244,786343,602588,3883196,129
Nebraska374,583556,846931,4295186,286
New Mexico501,614401,894903,5085180,702
Delaware296,268200,603496,8713165,624
West Virginia235,984545,382781,3665156,273
Hawaii366,130196,864562,9944140,749
S Dakota150,471261,043411,5143137,171
Rhode Island307,486199,922507,4084126,852
Vermont242,820112,704355,5243118,508
N Dakota114,902235,595350,4973116,832
Alaska153,778189,951343,7293114,576
DC317,32318,586335,9093111,970
Wyoming73,491193,559267,050389,017
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Field Marshall
I wanted to illustrate how the Electoral College over-represents voters in some states, and under-represents voters in other states. I made a spreadsheet of all the states plus Washington, DC, and entered how many votes were cast in the 2020 election, plus how many electoral college votes each state gets. (I found all these numbers on Wikipedia. You can see a link for Alaska, but I didn't bother entering links for the other states.)

Then I calculated the Total Voters 2020 ÷ the number of Electoral College votes, for each state. Finally, I sorted the table to show highest-to-lowest Voter to Electoral College Vote ratio, for each state. Those values are shown in the right hand column.

As you can see, Florida voters are the most under-represented with 378,130 voters per electoral college vote. And Wyoming is the most over-represented with 89,017.

OK, I admit, I geeked out with Excel. But this does show that the Electoral College gives Wyoming voters about 4¼ times the voting clout compared to Florida voters. Every 10 years, the census is supposed to adjust things, but it can only do so much. If there were no electoral college at all, and we chose a president by the total national vote, each voter would have the same clout, regardless of what state they are in.



State

Dem Voters
2020

GOP Voters
2020

Total Voters
2020

EC
Votes

Voters/
EC Vote
Florida5,297,0455,668,73110,965,77629378,130
N Carolina2,684,2922,758,7755,443,06715362,871
Colorado1,804,3521,364,6073,168,9599352,107
Pennsylvania3,458,2293,377,6746,835,90320341,795
Michigan2,804,0402,649,8525,453,89216340,868
Virginia2,413,5681,962,4304,375,99813336,615
Washington2,369,6121,584,6513,954,26312329,522
Oregon1,340,383958,4482,298,8317328,404
Ohio2,679,1553,154,8345,833,98918324,111
Wisconsin1,630,8661,610,1843,241,05010324,105
Massachusetts2,382,2021,167,2023,549,40411322,673
New Jersey2,608,3351,883,2744,491,60914320,829
Minnesota1,717,0771,484,0653,201,14210320,114
California11,110,2506,006,42917,116,67955311,212
Georgia2,473,6332,461,8544,935,48716308,468
Arizona1,672,1431,661,6863,333,82911303,075
Missouri1,253,0141,718,7362,971,75010297,175
Maryland1,985,023976,4142,961,43710296,144
Illinois3,471,9152,446,8915,918,80620295,940
Texas5,259,1265,890,34711,149,47338293,407
New York5,230,9853,244,7688,475,75329292,267
Iowa759,061897,6721,656,7336276,122
S Carolina1,091,5411,385,1032,476,6449275,183
Tennessee1,143,7111,852,4752,996,18611272,381
Indiana1,242,4161,729,5192,971,93511270,176
Louisiana856,0341,255,7762,111,8108263,976
Kentucky772,4741,326,6462,099,1208262,390
Connecticut1,080,680715,2911,795,9717256,567
Alabama849,6241,441,1702,290,7949254,533
Utah560,282865,1401,425,4226237,570
Nevada703,486669,8901,373,3766228,896
Kansas570,323771,4061,341,7296223,622
Oklahoma503,8901,020,2801,524,1707217,739
Mississippi539,398756,7641,296,1626216,027
Idaho287,021554,119841,1404210,285
Maine435,072360,737795,8094198,952
New Hampshire424,921365,654790,5754197,644
Arkansas423,932760,6471,184,5796197,430
Montana244,786343,602588,3883196,129
Nebraska374,583556,846931,4295186,286
New Mexico501,614401,894903,5085180,702
Delaware296,268200,603496,8713165,624
West Virginia235,984545,382781,3665156,273
Hawaii366,130196,864562,9944140,749
S Dakota150,471261,043411,5143137,171
Rhode Island307,486199,922507,4084126,852
Vermont242,820112,704355,5243118,508
N Dakota114,902235,595350,4973116,832
Alaska153,778189,951343,7293114,576
DC317,32318,586335,9093111,970
Wyoming73,491193,559267,050389,017
@MR.MAGOO Was it a mistake that you rated this post as dumb? And if not, why do you think the post is dumb?

Edit: Ah, a retaliation I see, but perhaps choose another post for this? Swerd's post is factual and facts are not dumb.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
Here is a bar chart with the same numbers from the table's right hand column in post #10.
In last November's election those states that voted GOP are shown in red. And those states that voted Democratic are shown in blue. For convenience, I showed Nebraska as red, and Maine as blue, though those states do split their electoral college results. The US Average (243,847) is shown as a green bar, between Alabama and Utah.
1610399366490.png
 
Last edited:
John Parks

John Parks

Audioholic General
An interesting read...
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
All the number tables and graph only show how the electoral college distorts our votes in national elections.

Even worse is the "winner takes all" system that most states (all but Nebraska and Maine) follow. For example, in Florida, 5,297,045 (48.3%) voted for Biden, and 5,668,731 (51.7%) voted for Trump. Yet all 29 of Florida's electoral college votes went for Trump. If the electoral college was abandoned, none of those voters would feel disenfranchised.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Samurai
Your numbers would tell a different story if it weren't for the top 5 or 6 most populous 'urban' areas. Regardless some reform is in order.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
Evidently Magoo thinks the minority rules. Perhaps he slept through high school civics.
A sheltered conservative bigot’s dream. Hook, line and sinker... and the rod, too! ...just another right-wing-nut basket case for Trump’s agenda. Probably has life size cardboard cutouts of Cruz and Hawley the way 12 year old girls have of their favorite boy bands.
No...
Just close-minded racist flotsam wasting precious space and oxygen on this little rock we call earth.
In fact, he’s using the wrong cartoon as his identity.
Meet Assy McGee:
1610378343264.jpeg

:oops: :p :p
:cool:
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Field Marshall
The defence of the Electoral College boils down to that some votes are more valuable than others, which is why G.O.P. is so against changes to the Electoral College or that the candidate that wins the popular vote is elected President.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
The Average of DC and all 50 states is 243,847. If you look on the table or the chart, Alabama and Utah are the closest to the national average. But there is a wide range of deviation above and below that average number.

Florida ÷ Avg = 1.55. Meaning that the voters in Florida get 1.55× worse representation than the national average.

Avg ÷ Wyoming = 2.74. Meaning that the voters in Wyoming get 2.74× better representation than the national average.
 

newsletter
  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top