Reform or Eliminate the Electoral College

[Swerd]

In the two months since the November election, we have seen repeated efforts by Trump and the GOP to corrupt the outcome of the election. In all those attempts, they aimed to alter enough Electoral College votes so the looser could claim a win.

During the attempted coup last Wednesday, I kept hearing the phrase "You cannot ignore the will of the people". It made me wonder what is the actual record of the people's will?

Over the last 28 years, among 8 presidential elections, Democrats won 5 and GOP won 3. In two of those GOP wins, the winner won the electoral college vote, while losing the popular vote – W in 2000 and Trump in 2016. Only once in the last 28 years has the GOP won the popular vote, in 2004.

This is why the GOP opposes eliminating or reforming the electoral college. They know they’ll lose nationwide popular votes.

In the table below, I show the results for the last 8 presidential elections. The Years are linked to Wikipedia pages where I got the numbers. Note that I did not show the Independent votes, especially the significant votes Ross Perot got in 1992 (19,743,821 – 18.9%) and 1996 (8,085,294 – 8.4%).

Year	Dem Pop Vote	GOP Pop Vote	% Dem	% GOP	EC Dem	EC GOP
2020	81,281,888	74,223,251	51.3%	46.9%	306	232
2016	65,853,514	62,984,828	48.2%	46.1%	227	304
2012	65,915,715	60,933,504	51.1%	47.2%	332	206
2008	69,498,516	59,948,323	52.9%	47.5%	365	173
2004	59,028,444	62,040,610	48.3%	50.7%	251	286
2000	50,999,897	50,456,002	48.4%	47.9%	266	271
1996	47,401,185	39,197,469	49.2%	40.7%	379	151
1992	44,909,889	39,104,550	43.0%	37.4%	370	168

 

[lovinthehd]

Be a hell of a fight to make such an amendment pass on a state level, tho....

 

[Swerd]

Any Constitutional amendment has always been a hell of a fight.

It depends on the political aftermath from the attempted coup. If the GOP divides, splitting the never-Trumpers from the pro-Trumpers, that would make a better opportunity to fix the electoral college problem than I've ever seen in my lifetime.

 

[Old Onkyo]

I don’t think reforming or eliminating the electoral college is the answer. I think what needs to be reformed is gerrymandering, voter suppression which disenfranchises large numbers of voters at the state level.

 

[lovinthehd]

Any Constitutional amendment has always been a hell of a fight.

It depends on the political aftermath from the attempted coup. If the GOP divides, splitting the never-Trumpers from the pro-Trumpers, that would make a better opportunity to fix the electoral college problem than I've ever seen in my lifetime.

True, it took the equal rights amendment for womens rights how many years to pass? The parties could each go thru several transformations in that time frame. Sometime we're gonna need more than just amendments to the Constitution, but I think we'll be frozen on such a thing without a revolution.

 

[Swerd]

I don’t think reforming or eliminating the electoral college is the answer. I think what needs to be reformed is gerrymandering, voter suppression which disenfranchises large numbers of voters at the state level.

The popular vote of an individual state wouldn't matter as much without the Electoral College. Instead, what would matter is the state's voter numbers in proportion to the whole nation. Voter suppression and disenfranchising large numbers of voters at a state level would only diminish a state's clout.

Yes, I do agree that other types of voting reform must also take place. Take redistricting out of the hands of the elected politicians. Make independent redistricting commissions in each state instead, as Virginia is proposing.

Allow mail-in voting, and enlarge Election Day from one day to a longer time frame such as a week or two.

Penalize non-voters – fine them like you would for a speeding ticket.

And eliminate the Dark Money system of supporting politicians. Unlimited money from unidentified donors is not free speech, it's corruption. (Ask Ted Cruz or Josh Hawley, they're experts.)

 

[Old Onkyo]

The popular vote of an individual state wouldn't matter as much without the Electoral College. Instead, what would matter is the state's voter numbers in proportion to the whole nation. Voter suppression and disenfranchising large numbers of voters at a state level would only diminish a state's clout.

Isn’t that what I said? The electoral college stops smaller states from being disenfranchised, but voter suppression and gerrymandering statewide disenfranchises blocks of people in a given state disproportionately impacting results.

 

[Swerd]

Isn’t that what I said? The electoral college stops smaller states from being disenfranchised, but voter suppression and gerrymandering statewide disenfranchises blocks of people in a given state disproportionately impacting results.

Eliminating the electoral college would not disenfranchise anyone. The electoral college now allows voters in smaller states to be OVER-represented in national elections. It UNDER-represents all voters in larger states.

 

[Old Onkyo]

Got cha!

 

[Swerd]

I wanted to illustrate how the Electoral College over-represents voters in some states, and under-represents voters in other states. I made a spreadsheet of all the states plus Washington, DC, and entered how many votes were cast in the 2020 election, plus how many electoral college votes each state gets. (I found all these numbers on Wikipedia. You can see a link for Alaska, but I didn't bother entering links for the other states.)

Then I calculated the Total Voters 2020 ÷ the number of Electoral College votes, for each state. Finally, I sorted the table to show highest-to-lowest Voter to Electoral College Vote ratio, for each state. Those values are shown in the right hand column.

As you can see, Florida voters are the most under-represented with 378,130 voters per electoral college vote. And Wyoming is the most over-represented with 89,017.

OK, I admit, I geeked out with Excel. But this does show that the Electoral College gives Wyoming voters about 4¼ times the voting clout compared to Florida voters. Every 10 years, the census is supposed to adjust things, but it can only do so much. If there were no electoral college at all, and we chose a president by the total national vote, each voter would have the same clout, regardless of what state they are in.

State	Dem Voters 2020	GOP Voters 2020	Total Voters 2020	EC Votes	Voters/ EC Vote
Florida	5,297,045	5,668,731	10,965,776	29	378,130
N Carolina	2,684,292	2,758,775	5,443,067	15	362,871
Colorado	1,804,352	1,364,607	3,168,959	9	352,107
Pennsylvania	3,458,229	3,377,674	6,835,903	20	341,795
Michigan	2,804,040	2,649,852	5,453,892	16	340,868
Virginia	2,413,568	1,962,430	4,375,998	13	336,615
Washington	2,369,612	1,584,651	3,954,263	12	329,522
Oregon	1,340,383	958,448	2,298,831	7	328,404
Ohio	2,679,155	3,154,834	5,833,989	18	324,111
Wisconsin	1,630,866	1,610,184	3,241,050	10	324,105
Massachusetts	2,382,202	1,167,202	3,549,404	11	322,673
New Jersey	2,608,335	1,883,274	4,491,609	14	320,829
Minnesota	1,717,077	1,484,065	3,201,142	10	320,114
California	11,110,250	6,006,429	17,116,679	55	311,212
Georgia	2,473,633	2,461,854	4,935,487	16	308,468
Arizona	1,672,143	1,661,686	3,333,829	11	303,075
Missouri	1,253,014	1,718,736	2,971,750	10	297,175
Maryland	1,985,023	976,414	2,961,437	10	296,144
Illinois	3,471,915	2,446,891	5,918,806	20	295,940
Texas	5,259,126	5,890,347	11,149,473	38	293,407
New York	5,230,985	3,244,768	8,475,753	29	292,267
Iowa	759,061	897,672	1,656,733	6	276,122
S Carolina	1,091,541	1,385,103	2,476,644	9	275,183
Tennessee	1,143,711	1,852,475	2,996,186	11	272,381
Indiana	1,242,416	1,729,519	2,971,935	11	270,176
Louisiana	856,034	1,255,776	2,111,810	8	263,976
Kentucky	772,474	1,326,646	2,099,120	8	262,390
Connecticut	1,080,680	715,291	1,795,971	7	256,567
Alabama	849,624	1,441,170	2,290,794	9	254,533
Utah	560,282	865,140	1,425,422	6	237,570
Nevada	703,486	669,890	1,373,376	6	228,896
Kansas	570,323	771,406	1,341,729	6	223,622
Oklahoma	503,890	1,020,280	1,524,170	7	217,739
Mississippi	539,398	756,764	1,296,162	6	216,027
Idaho	287,021	554,119	841,140	4	210,285
Maine	435,072	360,737	795,809	4	198,952
New Hampshire	424,921	365,654	790,575	4	197,644
Arkansas	423,932	760,647	1,184,579	6	197,430
Montana	244,786	343,602	588,388	3	196,129
Nebraska	374,583	556,846	931,429	5	186,286
New Mexico	501,614	401,894	903,508	5	180,702
Delaware	296,268	200,603	496,871	3	165,624
West Virginia	235,984	545,382	781,366	5	156,273
Hawaii	366,130	196,864	562,994	4	140,749
S Dakota	150,471	261,043	411,514	3	137,171
Rhode Island	307,486	199,922	507,408	4	126,852
Vermont	242,820	112,704	355,524	3	118,508
N Dakota	114,902	235,595	350,497	3	116,832
Alaska	153,778	189,951	343,729	3	114,576
DC	317,323	18,586	335,909	3	111,970
Wyoming	73,491	193,559	267,050	3	89,017

 

[Old Onkyo]

Great work Swerd.

 

[Trell]

I wanted to illustrate how the Electoral College over-represents voters in some states, and under-represents voters in other states. I made a spreadsheet of all the states plus Washington, DC, and entered how many votes were cast in the 2020 election, plus how many electoral college votes each state gets. (I found all these numbers on Wikipedia. You can see a link for Alaska, but I didn't bother entering links for the other states.)

Then I calculated the Total Voters 2020 ÷ the number of Electoral College votes, for each state. Finally, I sorted the table to show highest-to-lowest Voter to Electoral College Vote ratio, for each state. Those values are shown in the right hand column.

As you can see, Florida voters are the most under-represented with 378,130 voters per electoral college vote. And Wyoming is the most over-represented with 89,017.

OK, I admit, I geeked out with Excel. But this does show that the Electoral College gives Wyoming voters about 4¼ times the voting clout compared to Florida voters. Every 10 years, the census is supposed to adjust things, but it can only do so much. If there were no electoral college at all, and we chose a president by the total national vote, each voter would have the same clout, regardless of what state they are in.

State	Dem Voters 2020	GOP Voters 2020	Total Voters 2020	EC Votes	Voters/ EC Vote
Florida	5,297,045	5,668,731	10,965,776	29	378,130
N Carolina	2,684,292	2,758,775	5,443,067	15	362,871
Colorado	1,804,352	1,364,607	3,168,959	9	352,107
Pennsylvania	3,458,229	3,377,674	6,835,903	20	341,795
Michigan	2,804,040	2,649,852	5,453,892	16	340,868
Virginia	2,413,568	1,962,430	4,375,998	13	336,615
Washington	2,369,612	1,584,651	3,954,263	12	329,522
Oregon	1,340,383	958,448	2,298,831	7	328,404
Ohio	2,679,155	3,154,834	5,833,989	18	324,111
Wisconsin	1,630,866	1,610,184	3,241,050	10	324,105
Massachusetts	2,382,202	1,167,202	3,549,404	11	322,673
New Jersey	2,608,335	1,883,274	4,491,609	14	320,829
Minnesota	1,717,077	1,484,065	3,201,142	10	320,114
California	11,110,250	6,006,429	17,116,679	55	311,212
Georgia	2,473,633	2,461,854	4,935,487	16	308,468
Arizona	1,672,143	1,661,686	3,333,829	11	303,075
Missouri	1,253,014	1,718,736	2,971,750	10	297,175
Maryland	1,985,023	976,414	2,961,437	10	296,144
Illinois	3,471,915	2,446,891	5,918,806	20	295,940
Texas	5,259,126	5,890,347	11,149,473	38	293,407
New York	5,230,985	3,244,768	8,475,753	29	292,267
Iowa	759,061	897,672	1,656,733	6	276,122
S Carolina	1,091,541	1,385,103	2,476,644	9	275,183
Tennessee	1,143,711	1,852,475	2,996,186	11	272,381
Indiana	1,242,416	1,729,519	2,971,935	11	270,176
Louisiana	856,034	1,255,776	2,111,810	8	263,976
Kentucky	772,474	1,326,646	2,099,120	8	262,390
Connecticut	1,080,680	715,291	1,795,971	7	256,567
Alabama	849,624	1,441,170	2,290,794	9	254,533
Utah	560,282	865,140	1,425,422	6	237,570
Nevada	703,486	669,890	1,373,376	6	228,896
Kansas	570,323	771,406	1,341,729	6	223,622
Oklahoma	503,890	1,020,280	1,524,170	7	217,739
Mississippi	539,398	756,764	1,296,162	6	216,027
Idaho	287,021	554,119	841,140	4	210,285
Maine	435,072	360,737	795,809	4	198,952
New Hampshire	424,921	365,654	790,575	4	197,644
Arkansas	423,932	760,647	1,184,579	6	197,430
Montana	244,786	343,602	588,388	3	196,129
Nebraska	374,583	556,846	931,429	5	186,286
New Mexico	501,614	401,894	903,508	5	180,702
Delaware	296,268	200,603	496,871	3	165,624
West Virginia	235,984	545,382	781,366	5	156,273
Hawaii	366,130	196,864	562,994	4	140,749
S Dakota	150,471	261,043	411,514	3	137,171
Rhode Island	307,486	199,922	507,408	4	126,852
Vermont	242,820	112,704	355,524	3	118,508
N Dakota	114,902	235,595	350,497	3	116,832
Alaska	153,778	189,951	343,729	3	114,576
DC	317,323	18,586	335,909	3	111,970
Wyoming	73,491	193,559	267,050	3	89,017

@MR.MAGOO Was it a mistake that you rated this post as dumb? And if not, why do you think the post is dumb?

Edit: Ah, a retaliation I see, but perhaps choose another post for this? Swerd's post is factual and facts are not dumb.

 

[Swerd]

Here is a bar chart with the same numbers from the table's right hand column in post #10.
In last November's election those states that voted GOP are shown in red. And those states that voted Democratic are shown in blue. For convenience, I showed Nebraska as red, and Maine as blue, though those states do split their electoral college results. The US Average (243,847) is shown as a green bar, between Alabama and Utah.

 

[Swerd]

@MR.MAGOO Was it a mistake that you rated this post as dumb? And if not, why do you think the post is dumb?

Evidently Magoo thinks the minority rules. Perhaps he slept through high school civics.

 

[John Parks]

An interesting read...

In Defense of the Electoral College

Hardly any constitutional provision is harder to explain, or easier to misunderstand, than the Electoral College — especially after an election in which the winner of the popular vote did not become president. When it is not dismissed as a relic, it ...

www.nationalaffairs.com

 

[Swerd]

All the number tables and graph only show how the electoral college distorts our votes in national elections.

Even worse is the "winner takes all" system that most states (all but Nebraska and Maine) follow. For example, in Florida, 5,297,045 (48.3%) voted for Biden, and 5,668,731 (51.7%) voted for Trump. Yet all 29 of Florida's electoral college votes went for Trump. If the electoral college was abandoned, none of those voters would feel disenfranchised.

 

[Mikado463]

Your numbers would tell a different story if it weren't for the top 5 or 6 most populous 'urban' areas. Regardless some reform is in order.

 

[ryanosaur]

Evidently Magoo thinks the minority rules. Perhaps he slept through high school civics.

A sheltered conservative bigot’s dream. Hook, line and sinker... and the rod, too! ...just another right-wing-nut basket case for Trump’s agenda. Probably has life size cardboard cutouts of Cruz and Hawley the way 12 year old girls have of their favorite boy bands.
No...
Just close-minded racist flotsam wasting precious space and oxygen on this little rock we call earth.
In fact, he’s using the wrong cartoon as his identity.
Meet Assy McGee:

 

[Trell]

The defence of the Electoral College boils down to that some votes are more valuable than others, which is why G.O.P. is so against changes to the Electoral College or that the candidate that wins the popular vote is elected President.

 

[Swerd]

The Average of DC and all 50 states is 243,847. If you look on the table or the chart, Alabama and Utah are the closest to the national average. But there is a wide range of deviation above and below that average number.

Florida ÷ Avg = 1.55. Meaning that the voters in Florida get 1.55× worse representation than the national average.

Avg ÷ Wyoming = 2.74. Meaning that the voters in Wyoming get 2.74× better representation than the national average.