Red-Haired Shanks Build Thread

GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Introducing: A very large, 20lb compression tweeter - the 1" Denovo BA-750, which I have manually removed the bug-screen from:


She will be sitting inside of a very large fibreglass waveguide, this SEOS-18:


Which I have adhered to some viscoelastic material to hopefully kill some ringing in its lower registers. Further testing will reveal more:




This combination will cover the upper octaves (roughly 1khz on up, although only testing will determine what exactly). Due to a minor issue in the top octave (~15khz), listening will determine whether a super-tweeter is a worthy addition. So what will it be mated to? Well....
 
Last edited:
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
The Acoustic Elegance TD15M with Apollo Motor Upgrade - in essence a very stiff, well-treated paper cone attached to an equally well-treated cloth surround, with the motor utilizing a total of three carefully placed faraday sleeves / rings. By utilizing the large phase plug, dust cap resonances are also avoided.



 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
A sealed enclosure for the TD15M would provide a THX-perfect F3 at 80hz and 12db/oct rolloff for a home theater utilizing subwoofers. However the system will not soon have subwoofers in place, so the current scenario calls for extending the bass response. A tapered transmission line was examined, but scrapped as both the resonator and the driver would share a low q in their resonance, resulting in minimal output gains vs sealed.

An ML-TL box design was thus developed using Martin J King's mathCAD worksheets where I optimized frequency response (in order to minimize ripple and port resonances), driver excursion (xmax = 6mm), and port air velocity (to ensure high levels of output, a relatively large cross-section area was used).

TD15M.png
TD15M Excursion.png
TD15M Port speed.png

The above model may shift its fs up slightly due to the addition of bracing, but it will still be within tolerable limits.

This will comprise the lower portion of the modular speaker design. Until this box is constructed, I do not plan to measure frequency response for a variety of

The dimensions I arrived at for the box using 1" MDF:

Port: 8.1" x 12.9" x 2.5"
Port offset: 31" from top (externally)
Driver offset: 9" from top (externally)
Height: 38" tall externally
Width: 20" wide externally
Depth: 14" deep at top, 20" deep at bottom

The front baffle will be tapered slightly; effectively tilting the midwoofer up towards the listener. Whether this actually affects performance is to be seen, but I did it for the fun factor. Thus the Baffle is actually 38.5" tall rather than 38".

Once the box construction is complete measurements have been obtained, testing will be performed towards optimizing a worthy crossover. The first stage will involve an active crossover using a miniDSP as the controller. Whether this will become passive is yet to be seen. The final speaker goals will include:

- Flat frequency response +/- 1.5db @ ~1.5 to 2m for natural-sounding, resolving reproduction.

- Even, and narrowly controlled off-axis (polar) response degrees for retaining imaging cues in a very narrow listening space, while ensuring a wide sweet spot via crossfire

- Limitless output capability.
 
Last edited:
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
I hope this is a big room you are running these in. What's the efficiency? North of 95?
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
I hope this is a big room you are running these in.
On the contrary, it's the sheer narrow-ness of that room that led to the large speakers - by limiting early reflections it is intended to give the illusion of a much larger listening space.

What's the efficiency? North of 95?
The 8 ohm TD15M is "rated" at over 97db, which it should maintain over a sufficiently wide bandwidth thanks to the extremely low inductance of the Apollo motor and the very low baffle step frequency of the 20" x 38" baffle, which combined with the 2pi radiation effect of the ground and front wall, means that might be a safe bet.

I don't know the BA-750's efficiency on the SEOS, but it is presumably over 100db (rated at 110db but I'm not sure what horn that is on). With an active crossover, I bet one could get away with 5 watts and still have frightening dynamics, not that it matters for solid state users. It doesn't really begin to rolloff until below 700hz so it really just boils down to shaping its frequency response as desired.

Overall it's an exercise in excess :D
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Field Marshall
Those are going to be awesome!!

Surprised you chose a 1" cd over a larger one that could be crossed even lower. Not sure how low the SEOS controls a pattern. Thoughts? Man, I'm jealous of your build. Did I say it's going to be awesome? Subscribed.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
First of all. sorry for the lack of update guys. We did get a lot of cutting etc done in mid-May that I haven't really touched on yet, but it was cut short of complete. Near the end of May I was busy reviewing the SVS Ultra Towers, and then during the first ~two weeks of June I was busy dealing with a mix of school and a ton of things to do regarding my sister's wedding (lots of tasks, and tons of family from all over). Last week was intended to be my return to the project, but my city was hit by endless rain - to the point of flooding! If weather permits, we can get very far into the enclosure construction on Sunday and Monday. Here's hoping.

Those are going to be awesome!!

Surprised you chose a 1" cd over a larger one that could be crossed even lower. Not sure how low the SEOS controls a pattern. Thoughts? Man, I'm jealous of your build. Did I say it's going to be awesome? Subscribed.
When I say it's a 1" CD, that means it uses a 1.75" moving diaphragm, which also pulls its breakup frequencies down into the audible range (luckily, still up at ~15khz where it matters less). The size of the exit-hole (or entrance into the horn) is 1", however. People have reported success pulling this particular driver down to 600hz, and I'm looking at closer to ~850hz although a lot of factors will dictate what actually happens. The SEOS-18 holds its horizontal pattern down to around 700hz luckily, and the vertical pattern will be dictated moreso by the crossover symmetry/order.

Had I used a 1.5" exit compression driver, that means using a 3" diaphragm driver along with less stellar frequency response in the top octaves. A 3" diapgragm would surely undergo breakup below 10khz - in other words requiring another tweeter for much of the upper treble - a lot of issues with that on its own. A supertweeter I'm fine with, a tweeter less-so. Had I gone even bigger to a 2" compression driver, that would essentially mean a 4" compression driver and an even lower breakup frequency. 2" exits do not have useful response above ~10khz at all either way.

There is, by the way, a SEOS-24 available these days designed around a coaxial BMS compression driver. I bet that extends down to below 500hz, and that would be a cool project on its own but I don't know what the results would be like. There was no such thing back when I ordered the SEOS-18.

Of course, I would love to buy a pair of these compression drivers and get the Autotech guys to modify the SEOS-24 entry angle for it.
 
Last edited:
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
You really need to come back. It's been almost a year since you started this thread. The immense curiosity overwhelms. :D
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
I'm still around, and I got working on them again the last week or two. I got most of the speakers built last year, but the bracing pretty much made me procrastinate for the rest of the year >_>;

I'm making progress, and hope to post some early pics next week. I do have a whole bunch of pics of the progress, but I guess I wanted to back-load them when I get to the next stage... it's bad enough I made this thread and didn't update it :p

My goal is to complete these speakers by Mid-August, and I'm pacing myself for just that.
 
Last edited:
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
The Baffle: 1" of MDF and 3/4" of Birch Ply glued into one piece:



Routing out the slot port:



Routing out the massive woofer hole:




Gluing the port onto the baffle (I swear I had pictures of the actual port construction, which I'll have to track down):



Because the baffle is slanted, gluing down the top is interesting:




Clamp porn:
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
More Clamps (SFW, no nipples)




The Box:

The boxes ready for bracing:



What is this?



The current status: Horizontal bracing on one of the speakers is pretty much finished, next step is bracing the rear panel:



word of advice:

Never neglect dadoing. Literally the dumbest thing I could have done, and I did it. The result was a LOT of difficulty with brace installation and a lot of brainstorming to solve basic issues. Didn't help I messed up some of my cuts and didn't want to buy more wood.
 
Last edited:
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Never neglect dadoing. Literally the dumbest thing I could have done, and I did it. The result was a LOT of difficulty with brace installation and a lot of brainstorming to solve basic issues. Didn't help I messed up some of my cuts and didn't want to buy more wood.
Believe me there are a lot dumber things you could have done. I know form personal experience. :) Glad to see this coming along.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
It may not appear like I've done a lot of work, but I feel I have.........as far as time spent, here's another update on speaker A. It's pretty much ready for the back to be closed as I await some binding posts to come in the mail.



A few things you'll note:

The top-to-rear diagonal brace has some strips of veneer on it. This is because the ply was pretty cambered. The veneer at those spots will ensure a better contact area to the rear. I couldn't really get too many more braces up top, so I'm hoping this will work. Either way, there will probably end up being more wood glued on the top right behind the seos, which will probably stiffen things up.

The sides are covered in two layers of something called Armourguard Ice and Water Protector. You'd be surprised, but this stuff makes a profound difference in the sound of the panel when knocked. A lot of high frequency resonant junk gets killed because this material is viscoelastic. This technique is known as extensional damping - it's not quite as effective as shearing mode damping but boy is it easier :p Applying this stuff is really time consuming especially as I don't have a heat gun. I've just been heating up the adhesive side with a blow-driver on "hot" and then pressing it on. I also had to spray the surface of the speaker with compressed air and then vacuum the dust in order to ensure the adhesive worked correctly. The layer on the baffle is three layers thick, and even the port is damped as you can see.

The newly added horizontal braces which will attach to the rear of the speaker are a solid 3.5 inches thick - they'll effectively act as joists. I couldn't do a cross brace to the baffle because the angle makes things way more convolued than they need to be.

At the bottom of the speaker you'll notice a plus-shaped mechanism. Because the driver would have gotten in the way of a cross brace, and it would have been annoying to install anways, I chose to implement an engineering technique I know as web-stiffening. I simply added vertical "ribs" (also 3.5") to the weakest points of the bottom panel.

I'm currently working on the other speaker moreso right now, but the box-construction stages remaining for this one would be:

1) Drilling screw-holes and installing hurricane nuts for the driver
2) Drilling and installing binding posts
3) Buying and filling the speaker with rock wool at points of highest velocity. The PC i designed this speaker on is out of commission, so I've lost my modelling data. I don't remember how much or where fibrefill the original design called for. I wish I had a copy of Mathcad on this one... probably just gonna wing it and avoid covering the port and see what happens.
4) Gluing in the back of the speaker and sealing everything up to be airtight.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Getting closer.... (the panels holding together those diagonal braces look offset, but the actual brace parts are symmetrical between the two speakers)


So I tracked down my ML-TL modeling file. I require roughly 4.5 to 5lbs of fill in the top ~28 inches of the speaker to get rid of ripple without overstuffing. Even factoring in any lost box volume due to bracing, I should still maintain an ~30hz tune with an ideal sloping FR.
 
Last edited:
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
I really, really wanted to measure these outdoors so i could capture as much of the baffle step and minimum phase response of the woofer without room influence, but it's been a very rainy week and i live close enough to a major highway that i have to find quiet times of the day to do it outdoors without disturbing the neighbors - a paradox in ways. So for now I've temporarily settled for gated indoors measurements spliced with box model sims to derive a usable FRD file. The woofer is extremely well-behaved, whereas the compression tweeter required significant electrical shaping (which is fine as it's a very sensitive ~105+db driver. Normally you don't want to have to shape response too much as this indicated mechanical resonances but in this case it's just the horn-loading and mass-rolloff we're dealing with - both of which are acceptablr to equalize). Measurements were taken at 2M away and with the mic about 41 inches off the ground, where I measured the tweeter, the woofer, and then the tweeter + woofer (the third measurement is used to determine acoustic delay)



Charlie Laub's Active Crossover Designer was used to formulate appropriate biquads for the miniDSP. For a variety of reasons, the acoustic crossover ends up being a symmetrical 6th order in-phase centered around 850hz give or take - although I only really have a 2nd order electrical highpass on the tweeter. Reverse null for now is not the deepest possible, but still an acceptable ~ -20db or so and I was satisfied with the phase tracking in the narrow crossover region. With a steep slope like this, I managed to get the large woofer operating in a band where it is well-behaved, while the tweeter is well-protected. The crossover frequency itself should allow even horizontal polar response, but I will have to measure it to know for sure - which I'd prefer to do outdoors and after other tweaks have been made.



Some quick listening revealed good driver integration as far as I could tell, with a very clean, resolving, tight sound character. The highs have an interesting air to them, which I believe is because the SEOS has wider top-octave dispersion than beaming dome tweeters do. I can't yet compare it to the RAAL on my Phils, as I haven't listened to any "go-to Audition" tracks yet. Regardless, these speakers are extremely easy to listen to - and did I mention how beautiful the lower mids are? The word "clean" constantly kept popping up in our minds. The BA-750 is a fantastic driver as far as I can tell, and the TD15M is a treat to listen to.

As they sit in their final resting place (but no, they're not "100% finished - more on that in a bit)



Here's a runthrough of what's left off the top of my head:

- Settling on... a name.
- cleaning up/organizing their listening area a bit and playing with the crossfire.
- plenty of listening!! I'll post some proper impressions later today. This may also mean that I may, or may not, drop the tweeter level 1db as I couldn't decide what looked nicer in my sims (the ideal is probably 1db below the picture above.)
- further playing with filter designs in ACD until I can avoid using any "gain" filters at all and instead only cuts (which will help me figure out where I need to go with a passive design)
- measuring TD15M impedance in-box to verify tuning as well as for use in a passive crossover design.
- fixing the left speaker's binding posts (the outside parts snapped right off as we were moving them, even though the rest is still right there in the wood.. That's why I'm running wire through the port to the left driver. *sigh*
- Cutting, shaping, and adhering 30 PPI Reticulated Foam to the SEOS-18 to reduce Higher-Order modes within the throat and waveguide. IIRC This will reduce HF by about 2db/decade so that portion will have to be remeasured and of course the crossover will need to be adjusted accordingly to get the same frequency response.
- routing out a baffle for the SEOS so that it doesn't look like it's just sitting on top of the LF section (which it is) and then rounding over its edges. This might change the acoustic center and even diffraction-related frequency respons, so again this will require some remeasuring. This was going to be done by now but I came across quite a few problems - I don't have the right router guide, the plunge on my router seems to have broken and needs to be fixed (I can't even use a roundover bit right now) and I don't really have a lot of practice wood left to mess up on (I don't want to mess up on the little good piece of ply I have left that matches the baffle). I don't know when I'll be doing this, but I'm not in the biggest rush. It is however a notable part of the original design and hasn't been scrapped.
- Aesthetics: getting some red onto the baffle, painting the sides, flush trimming the backsides, sanding, etc. This will have to wait until next summer as these speakers were a pretty massively exhausting effort. I know they're ugly right now, but don't confuse that with me designing them to be ugly. The bright red waveguide should go nicely with the right dye, and I feel the grain on the baffle ply will really get accented as well.
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top