Receiver: Kenwood VR-806

[markw]

No guarantees, but...

... using my Holmsian logic, I'd verify that that second Pioneer has a sub out. I'd betcha dollars to donuts (my donuts to your dollars, natch ) that it does. If not, I'd instantly lose respect for pioneer.

Why that one?

Well, first off, the first Pioneer is out of stock plus while the "specs" on that one, while heavy on features, are actually quite light on the actual meat and potatoes performance area. Features are nice and well listed, but ultimately, unless you need one particular one they simply add to the complexity and price of the unit.

The second one has fairly eloquent specs. They read* pretty good as far as the power and freq response specs**. Note they rate it for a bandwidth of 10 - 100k which is extremely wide.

...as far as the Oinker goes? It's nice and if there was less choice I'd go for it. But, given a Yammie I'd go that way.

*While a unit may read really, really good and appear to be wunnerful, listening in your home is the only real way to know fer sure. But, these specs actually look pretty complete.

** The Kenwoody you initialy inquired about was only rated down to 4o hz, a cheap way to make it appear more powerful. You might want to spend a little time reading some of the numerous FAQ's on this subject that the fine gentlemen that own this site posted. You'll learn a heckuva lot more from them than form an old fart like me.

 

[NetGeek]

That is an easy pick Mark!

When it comes to the biggies (Yamaha, Denon, HK & Marantz) it's mostly a matter of feature preference as opposed to "better" in the sound/performance/reliability area.

IOW, any of those will be pretty much equal, sound wise, within their respective price class. It's kinda like the Ford/Chevy/Mopar discussions I lived with in high school in the 60's. In the end, they are all really pretty close and it boiled down to a preference.

Or, look at it this way... You've got three equally beautiful women chasing after you. All have sweet personalities, are rich and think you are the greatest thing since sliced bread. One is a brunette, one is a brunette and the other is a blonde (please, no blonde jokes. Save that for another thread). Which would you pick? ...and why? Actually, that's a kind of a trick question. If you know what's best for you, you'll say "I would take my wife above them all", but you get my drift.

Remember in my first long winded post? Somewhere in that diatribe (# 2) I said something along the lines of "be flexable"? Check it out. Had a great deal popped up where I could have bought an $800 Yammie or Marantz or HK for $395 before my 2802 appeared for that price, I'd have a Yammie or a Marantz or a HK. ...and probably be loving that, too.

Remember, it's mostly the source software, the speakers and the room that determine the quality of the sound.

I would simply pick the one with the biggest..........heart!

 

[marv117]

is this one good?
Denon AVR485S
better than okyo?

 

[markw]

What's with you and the Oinkers, dude?

Somehow, I think deep down inside you really, really want one. They aren't bad for the price. If that's what you want then that $198 special @ 6th Ave will be fine and you'll save a few bucks. Aside fron the constant shoulda coulda woulda version of buyers remorse which all us audionuts suffer from, you'll be fine.

...and you'll proably bew very satisfied with the sound.

Remember, most of the trick is in the speakers and placement in the room, not the receiver.

But, this Denon, although seeming lacking on meaningful specs, seems pretty good but that's based on the fact that I've had pretty good luck with mine and it does have 6 channels of amplification built in.

On the whole though, if you can live with five channels I'd go for that 5830 Yammie from the previous post. It "reads" better from what I can see.

Decisions, decisions... sucks, eh? Aren't you sorry you asked ?

Remember, this technology keeps changing. Each iteration of new units offers more features, more power and a lower price. In three years there will be a whole new crop of stuff with features that are only available on the top of the line units today.

Heck, the budget receivers you're looking at today have features that were either unheard of three years ago even on top 'o the line units.

...and the old stuff will still be fine for a second system or a gift to a needy friend/relative to get started in the hobby.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

is this one good?
Denon AVR485S
better than okyo?

It's bette than Onkyo's basic entry level receiver. I don't care for the 110 watt Denon rating of that receiver at .7 THD at 6 ohms. Useless info, when in reality it's a 75 watt receiver.

How about this? $100 off.

www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4026435

Here's the newer model for about $30 more. I'm very impressed with this one - Page 85 of the manual shows it's rated at 85 watts per channel at .08 THD at 8 Ohms. Strong. Go with the HTR 5840.

www.yamaha.com/yec/customer/manuals/PDFs/HTR-5840_5850.pdf

www.shopzilla.com/12--Yamaha_HTR_5840_Receiver_-_cat_id--11070000__prod_id--299667852

 

[marv117]

Here's the newer model for about $30 more. I'm very impressed with this one - Page 85 of the manual shows it's rated at 85 watts per channel at .08 THD at 8 Ohms. Strong. Go with the HTR 5840.

What about the HTR 5830? It's $100 cheaper.
I'm not sure this has sub pre-out. does it?
Here, take a look: http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/backs/HTR5830B.htm#

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

It has the sub preout. You can zoom in on that photo. It's the black single rca at the bottom. $100 is a lot, but that thing just looks like junk compared to the 5840. Just look how much nicer the 5840's front and rear panel are. The rear of the 5830 looks like late 80's model with those cheap spring loaded speaker terminals. Stick with the XX40 model - honestly. It's actually $120 less when comparing retail. You really get what you pay for between those two guys. Yamaha doesn't even rate the 5830 the same way at .08 THD and 8 ohms as on the 5840. They have to skew the charts to get the wattage to a respectable number - .9% THD at 1Khz on the 5830. Very pathetic. You should always rate rms power at 20-20,000 Hz at a .05 or .08 THD. That's a perfect example of what you call "padding the numbers."

www.yamaha.com/yec/customer/manuals/PDFs/HTR-5830.pdf

 

[marv117]

for $300
which is better then?

Yamaha HTR 5840
or
Denon AVR485S

I really want the silver-look which would make me like the yamaha a lot more. Just want everything to match on my entertainment system.

Update:
======
I guess based on buckeye's reply above, the yamaha is better based on specs/features. I just wish it was silver!
Now that I'm considering darker colored receivers, what about the Yamaha HTR 5740? I think the only difference is no XM input and it's about $100 cheaper!

 

[marv117]

I finally returned my Kenwood and went for the Yamaha HTR-5840. I got it for $299 at BestBuy

I was able to hook it up to my speakers but for some reason I can't get it to sound as good as the Kenwood. I tried all the different surround sound modes, but when watching movies the dialogues from people are very low. I have to use the Straight mode then I get all the sounds including good volume during dialogues. Maybe I need to read the manual some more. :sigh:

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

It's hard to believe that the Kenwood sounded "better." Do you have a "nightmode"? That DSP will raise the voice levels above everything else. If you are not satisfied with the Yamaha, don't stop here. Try out the Pioneer and Denon units. If you have enough room on your visa, bring 3 home and compare side by side. There is a big difference in musical quality when comparing Yamaha and Kenwood, but if 90% of your usage will be with surround tv, you may find that the lower end Kenwoods or Onkyo's do a better job with dialogue. If the Yamaha was $299, you may even consider a Harman Kardon. CC sells them and you can compare the AVR135 to some others. Don't give up. It took me over a year to decide on a receiver.

 

[marv117]

It's hard to believe that the Kenwood sounded "better." Do you have a "nightmode"? That DSP will raise the voice levels above everything else. If you are not satisfied with the Yamaha, don't stop here. Try out the Pioneer and Denon units. If you have enough room on your visa, bring 3 home and compare side by side. There is a big difference in musical quality when comparing Yamaha and Kenwood, but if 90% of your usage will be with surround tv, you may find that the lower end Kenwoods or Onkyo's do a better job with dialogue. If the Yamaha was $299, you may even consider a Harman Kardon. CC sells them and you can compare the AVR135 to some others. Don't give up. It took me over a year to decide on a receiver.

Would it help if I used a toslink cable?

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I highly doubt it, but give it a try. What speakers do you have again?

 

[marv117]

Well I HAD a Yamaha HTR-5840...but returned it.

Which one should I try next???

The sales rep told me to try the RXV lines from Yamaha, but I read somewhere here that are pretty much the same.

Go with denon? onkyo? pioneer? HK is way outta my budget. $300 and below please.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Well I HAD a Yamaha HTR-5840...but returned it.

Which one should I try next???

The sales rep told me to try the RXV lines from Yamaha, but I read somewhere here that are pretty much the same.

Go with denon? onkyo? pioneer? HK is way outta my budget. $300 and below please.

Try as many as you can. Most of us haven't heard the lower end models. They have different circuitry, and like the Kenwood, probably all have very different sound. Pioneer's seem to be a little brighter and possibly better in the vocals. Denon's and Onkyo's area little softer, so they may or may not be what you are looking for. Kenwoods are very soft (which is surprising that it sounded better than your Yammy), but Yahama's are known to be a little brighter than Denon.

Bring home an HK AVR135, test it, then return it. When you've decided it's miles apart from the ones listed above, then order one here:

http://search.ebay.com/avr135_W0QQfkrZ1QQfromZR8

Heck, for $35, you can climb up to this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39794&item=5771210355&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Here's the beef on the Yamaha lines:

What Is The Difference Between The RX-V Line And The HTR Line?


There are many similarities between these two product lines. The RX-V line and the HTR line are produced in the same Yamaha factory using the same high quality parts throughout. The RX-V and equivalent HTR models have the same warranty periods, the same manufacturer's suggested retail price, the same features, and the same remote control units.

There is a cosmetic difference found on the front panels of these two lines. The RX-V line maintains the traditional white colored lettering normally found on most Yamaha components, while the HTR line provides a slightly different approach. Yamaha has created a new look by using gold colored lettering in selected areas on the HTR receiver series. However, both the RX-V line and the HTR line feature the same high quality front panel construction.

The amplifiers in the HTR and RX-V units are identical but rated differently to comply with the accepted measurement standards of their respective channels of distribution. Both ratings are FTC approved and are designed to handle the dynamics of today's audio and video sources. The RX-V line has the power amplifiers rated from 20-20000 Hz. The HTR line has the power amplifiers rated at 1000 Hz. Both lines can reproduce the full frequency response of 20-20000 Hz.

The RX-V line is typically sold through Yamaha authorized audio/video specialty retailers, and is not available for mail order sales, phone sales, or internet sales.

The HTR line is sold through mass merchants, catalog retailers, and department stores. You may also purchase the HTR line through the mail, by phone, or at authorized internet retailers.

All transactions must be done through the authorized Yamaha dealer network. Any purchase made from an unauthorized dealer/retailer voids the Yamaha manufacturer's warranty.

 

[marv117]

I think I'm going to try the Pioneer VSX-815. Also $299 at bestbuy.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4153_209695979,00.html

What do you guys think?

 

[marv117]

My friend just told me that since I have two speakers, I will have a hard time using surround sound modes because dialogue/vocals usually goes through center speakers. Is this correct?

I only have two bookshelf speakers (infinity primus 150) and don't plan on expanding until maybe later this year.

Hopefully the pioneer receiver will do a better job than the yamaha.

 

[markw]

Yes.

My friend just told me that since I have two speakers, I will have a hard time using surround sound modes because dialogue/vocals usually goes through center speakers. Is this correct?

With only two speakers forget about any surround mode unless you search the menus and fingd a "phantom center" mode. Even then, you''ll lose any ambient sounds that would go to the rears. Learrn to love your manuals.

 

[marv117]

Okay. I think I'm confusing everyone with the "surround-sound" modes. Let's forget about the surround sound. I just want to hear the dialogue/vocals loud and clear through my two bookshelf speakers.

The kenwood did a great job with vocals(used one of the dsp settings) but had to return it because I was afraid that it was gonna die out on me in the future and with the rumors of kenwood usa shutting down I did not want to take a risk.

I then went with Yamaha, but it I couldn't find a setting to make the vocals loud and clear. Well, I did but I had to use the Straight mode and the rest of the sounds didn't sound as great.

So now I'm back to square one. Hopefully the Pioneer will be a good choice although I'm not too sure of the 1yr warranty.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

With only two speakers, you should not be using any dsp modes. You need to select "Stereo" for everything. Some of the receivers may have an internal equalizer, or "parametric eq." You can boost some of the frequencies for voices with this internal eq. I recommend anything between 800Hz and 2000Hz be boosted for voice. Did your Kenwood or Yamaha have an internal eq?

 

[marv117]

Holy crap! I'm such a big noob! How embarrasing!

That Yamaha was probably a good receiver and I just returned it! blah! I think the Yamaha had an internet EQ.

Darn it!

Should I get it back or just get the Pioneer? Hmmm..maybe try another brand...I don't like the 1yr warranty from Pioneer.

Hey, I can "re-buy" the opened box and it might be marked down lower!