Funkoid

Funkoid

Audiophyte
I'm having a dilemma at the moment whilst working on my lounge. I'm sadly unable to go 7.1 due to rear space, so was initially looking at 5.1.2 which I can definitely fit, then someone said 5.1.4 could be possible.

The challenge is my couch can't move any further forward as far as the listening position goes, the rear ceiling Atmos speakers would be close to the wall, and between 95-110 degrees from the listening position which isn't in line with the Dolby specs. I've seen people do this, but I've not heard it so am interested in people who have tried a configuration like this before.

5.1.2 could be positioned without issue but I've heard people say don't bother if you can't do 5.1.4?

It's not a massive room so I've mocked up the distance between what would be the rear Atmos and front Atmos speakers using Kef 130qr's set at just under 2m from each other.

It's a situation where I'm thinking, if I don't try I'll forever regret it because this is the last chance I'll have to do the ceiling work, if I do it though and it's terrible because of the 5.1.4 setup, the 5.1.2 could have sounded better and I've wasted time effort and money?!

It's driving me mad!
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
I'm having a dilemma at the moment whilst working on my lounge. I'm sadly unable to go 7.1 due to rear space, so was initially looking at 5.1.2 which I can definitely fit, then someone said 5.1.4 could be possible.

The challenge is my couch can't move any further forward as far as the listening position goes, the rear ceiling Atmos speakers would be close to the wall, and between 95-110 degrees from the listening position which isn't in line with the Dolby specs. I've seen people do this, but I've not heard it so am interested in people who have tried a configuration like this before.

5.1.2 could be positioned without issue but I've heard people say don't bother if you can't do 5.1.4?

It's not a massive room so I've mocked up the distance between what would be the rear Atmos and front Atmos speakers using Kef 130qr's set at just under 2m from each other.

It's a situation where I'm thinking, if I don't try I'll forever regret it because this is the last chance I'll have to do the ceiling work, if I do it though and it's terrible because of the 5.1.4 setup, the 5.1.2 could have sounded better and I've wasted time effort and money?!

It's driving me mad!
Well. I’ll start in the middle of your quote. Whoever said don’t bother if you can’t do x.x.4 is dumb.
IMO, and Ime 5.1.2 is definitely better than 5.1, and I’d say it’s better than 7.1 as well. I do agree that .4 won’t be optimal without being farther back, but you could set them as front height and top middle.(I don’t think you can set as top front and top middle). I say go for it, but you should decide on .2 or .4 as the top from locations will be different for each. How big is the room?
Some Atmos is better than no Atmos.
 
Funkoid

Funkoid

Audiophyte
Thanks for responding William, realised after a day of work writing a post with half of the information isn't helpful for anyone! Sorry about that.

I've attached a top down layout and some photos of some mock cardboard Kef cr130qr speakers I've positioned in the right hand side of the 5.1.4 setup. The room is only 3.12m deep and 4.5m wide. Due to compromise I'm having to use the 4.5m wall for the display.

As you can see it is tight in 5.1.4, it's just how much of a negative it would be in this situation. I've heard of people being happy in 5.1.4 in such a situation but, given the construction and installation involved it's a one time opportunity for me to get it right!

If I went 5.1.2 over 5.1.4 I'd probably boost the ceiling speaker size to the Kef cr160qr.
 

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2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
Thanks for responding William, realised after a day of work writing a post with half of the information isn't helpful for anyone! Sorry about that.

I've attached a top down layout and some photos of some mock cardboard Kef cr130qr speakers I've positioned in the right hand side of the 5.1.4 setup. The room is only 3.12m deep and 4.5m wide. Due to compromise I'm having to use the 4.5m wall for the display.

As you can see it is tight in 5.1.4, it's just how much of a negative it would be in this situation. I've heard of people being happy in 5.1.4 in such a situation but, given the construction and installation involved it's a one time opportunity for me to get it right!

If I went 5.1.2 over 5.1.4 I'd probably boost the ceiling speaker size to the Kef cr160qr.
The room is not very deep, but base on the pics...a 5.1.4 system will work...if you're off a 1' or so from the Dolby spec, I wouldn't worry. If you're going through the trouble to add two inceiling speakers for the purpose of Atmos playback, then you should add 4.

I have a 5.2.4 system...started with 5.2.2 and added a 2nd pair about 2 mos later....playing back the same blu ray content with the 4 Atmos speakers...there is definitely an improvement over 2.

I temper my comments with I don't know how much trouble the install is...I probably wouldn't bother with the format at all if I had to spend 4 figures on a renovation to install them.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Well I wouldn’t set the rear ceilings so far back that the top of the window curtains are blocking them but might as well do 4 ceilings.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan

Assuming the display is to go over the mantle, it looks like your mock ups are shifted a little to the right. I’m not sure if it’s a trick if the eye, or maybe they were just tossed up quickly but I would make sure to center in the display as much as you can. Also, what is the ceiling height? Obviously you won’t get to install top rears at 45° but the fronts you definitely can. I think .4 is not out of the question. Even if it’s not perfect, it will be more immersive than .2 and ones the time! What are you using for the bed layer and subs?
Only partly related , I just started watching Midway last night in Atmos. Wow!!! What a crazy soundtrack. It’s deep, loud and sounds all around. Definitely reference material.

Also, what are you showing in the first two digital pictures? I can see blue lines moved around but not following. Sorry.
 
Funkoid

Funkoid

Audiophyte
Thanks all, really sorry I haven't been clear thanks for your patience. The mantle/fireplace is actually the right side of the room, the cardboard circled next to the mantle is actually the right surround, not right front. The one above in the ceiling will be the Atmos right rear and the one to the left, is the front right Atmos speaker.

Ceiling height is 4.2m / 7'10"

The first two pictures were just intended for the dimensions, for whatever reason roomstyler wouldn't allow me to have the measurements around all sides of the room.

I'll try and get some better pictures this evening and a shot of the other side of the room to make it clearer.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Thanks all, really sorry I haven't been clear thanks for your patience. The mantle/fireplace is actually the right side of the room, the cardboard circled next to the mantle is actually the right surround, not right front. The one above in the ceiling will be the Atmos right rear and the one to the left, is the front right Atmos speaker.

Ceiling height is 4.2m / 7'10"

The first two pictures were just intended for the dimensions, for whatever reason roomstyler wouldn't allow me to have the measurements around all sides of the room.

I'll try and get some better pictures this evening and a shot of the other side of the room to make it clearer.
No worries oh funky one. That does make a LOT more sense now. Imo() I’m pretty good about interpreting pictures but I missed that one. Will check out new photos.
 
Funkoid

Funkoid

Audiophyte
So I've tried my best, hoping these ones are a little better :oops:

I've done a panorama one which is going to look crazy but it's to give you a feel for where the rest of the stuff is. I've propped the spirit level on the couch where I'd expect the perfect listening position to be, allow for the front and back of someone's head though

PANO_20200224_190844.jpg
Screenshot_20200224-192057~2-01.jpeg
Screenshot_20200224-192119~2-01.jpeg
Screenshot_20200224-192102~2-01.jpeg
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Ok now I can see a little better. Your cardboard skills are amazing lol.

So, the surrounds look a little high. I’d maybe move them closer to ear height, or just above. The center channel, might be a problem if it’s going in wall as the top of the entertainment will cause reflections and acoustic issues. Still wondering what your bed layer speakers and sub/s will be. And, if you can get the couch forward at all would be helpful.
 
Funkoid

Funkoid

Audiophyte
Trust me, it's worth every second messing around with the cardboard to sort layout details... The wonkey TV was my wife's work The couch too is unfortunately as far forward as it's permitted, I have my orders

Sub wise I've not decided, the positioning, in the past I've waiting until the rest are setup so I can see what sounds best. I'm having to go with the Kef T305 set for the standard front, center and surrounds.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Trust me, it's worth every second messing around with the cardboard to sort layout details... The wonkey TV was my wife's work The couch too is unfortunately as far forward as it's permitted, I have my orders

Sub wise I've not decided, the positioning, in the past I've waiting until the rest are setup so I can see what sounds best. I'm having to go with the Kef T305 set for the standard front, center and surrounds.
Agreed. I’ve used cardboard for many mock ups. It’s great!
Well, they’re your orders, do with them what you will. I’m good at the long game sometimes. Like my mains, they were up against the front wall. I moved them out into the room an inch or so at a time until I got them to about 3’ into the room. This took a couple weeks, and almost a year later she goes huh, have those always been there? I said yep! Maybe it’s just how the light is hitting them honey! Other times I’m not so subtle, but hey. It’s your space, it’s for you two to decide.
 
Funkoid

Funkoid

Audiophyte
I've had to drop the idea of going 5.1.4 but can house a proper 5.1.2 setup.

Given that I'm wondering if I should up the speaker size of the .2 to the Kef ci160qr over ci130qr?

They have slightly better frequency response but seem to need much more depth in the ceiling. Has anyone used both models? Also not sure if the ci160qr will end up overpowering the intended T205 set?
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
I guess I might be inclined to go with the 130’s. Normally I’m a bigger speaker guy, but I wonder in this case about the dispersion.
I’m not 100% sure if 7’ 10” is quite high enough for the 160, although it might be. Also with a seated ear height between 3 and 4 feet, I think think the 130’s will provide enough dynamics and neither one would “overpower” the rest of the system since the content they receive is very different. It’s possible that the 130’s and 160’s Jane more dynamic range than the 205 set though. I don’t know much about them and am not much a believer in thin, or small speakers.
Curious how you decided to go with .2.
 
Funkoid

Funkoid

Audiophyte
It was just the distance between the rears and the listening position. The rears were only an 2-3" behind the listeners head, to get closer to the angles recommended by Dolby y was looking at needing to move the sofa forward by a good 1" which just sadly isn't doable.

I've not had a huge amount of feedback from people who have gone down that route too. I'd love 5.2.4, it'd feel more substantial but it seems like too big of a risk at this point. If someone proves me otherwise I'd be over the moon but I just can't improve the distance between the read ceiling and couch, so they're technically on top, not behind the listener.
 

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William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Well ya can’t win em all! Some Atmos is better than no Atmos so there’s that.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
One more thought for you. Why not mount the rear Atmos in the dropped ceiling in the bay window?
Then it will be behind. Don't worry about the difference in the ceilings. Levels will be matched in setip.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
Did contemplate that, sadly it's solid concrete
What's above it? Why would it be solid and concrete.
That would be a very heavy load for that slab.
How did you check this out?
 

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