RBH Sound 21" Monster 4kwatt Sub First to Meet our Maximus Bassaholic Rating!

Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic Samurai
I'm not impressed at all with this driver which sells at $10K. Expensive to buy and expensive to drive! You need an extra 20 amp 240 volt circuit to use it.

I can get 20 Hz at -3dB without any boosting with each of my Dayton RSS390-HF4 subs while this one gets down to that frequency at -7dB. Moreover, I don't need massive amplifier power because my subs are ported.
I’m sure if someone can afford a sub this expensive they can pay an electrician too . I’d never need a sub this heavy I can’t even move my 15” sub.
Not sure to what extent RBH swept this sub at power at infrasonic frequencies. I know they did run 4kwatts of power to torture the driver and it stood up to it. That's insane! They do have a ported version being installed in an extremely upscale theater system in Orlando we hope to cover in the near future. So far my family complains when I crank up deep bass tracks with the 21" sub engaged despite my sound isolation in my theater room. I rarely heard complaints from them before I installed the 21". It's like my walls don't exist anymore. LOL
you got this sub ? Wow must be spectacular!
 
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luis1090

Audioholic Intern
Yes, a ported sub with that driver, would likely be huge. Have RBH tested that sub to full power out of doors? I ask, as I think there is a serious risk that sub could produce a sonic boom. That could do a lot of damage. This phenomenon has occurred with people experimenting with devices like that. If they have not, they had better test it in open space. If it is possible someone will do it, and the law suits will come in.

I do find it hard to justify such a device in the home. I suppose it might be required for the odd effect, in a movie. However it has no practical application for any music I am aware of. I certainly never felt the need for increased bass output in my system and have at times in movies been concerned about structural damage. So I think this unit probably does get into the pointless realm. I could see that it might have an application in large cinemas, but not in any home I am aware of.
I think you are overlooking the fact that this subwoofer has the technology G.A.D.S or Granular Acoustic Dampening System that as the review explained absorbs or dissipates the acoustic energy created by the rear motion of the driver. Granted, I don't know how effective this technology really is but if the pending patent gets approved that would lead me to believe it's doing the job. The box is built using HDF material and if the 371 pounds this thing weights are of any indication this thing is built like a vault. Finally I'm sure that before this product was released, they thoroughly tested it. I also don't want to be annoying but if a subwoofer is the cause for structural damage concern then you need to check your house foundation. Like you this subwoofer isn't for me, but I have a friend here in Florida that his home theater room is almost as big as my house and I'm sure a subwoofer like this have to be a lot of fun with the proper material.
 
Bobby Bass

Bobby Bass

Audioholic General
If Godzilla was a sub…or how about, we’re gonna need a bigger house.
 
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XaVierDK

Audioholic Intern
Would've loved to see a graph of the system's performance at its limits in-room. Sure the transfer-function change tells a story, but what if you pushed all of the subs to their max with and without the RBH and compared that too? That would really show how much extra performance you have gained below 20 Hz.
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
You really can't reverse engineer like that. You have to have a driver that could actually be built, with measured T/S parameters. If RBH will publish the T/S parameters of that driver, I will tell you exactly.

But the bigger question is: - why this obsession with infrasonic frequencies? I maintain they do not contribute to the pleasure of audio, or AV on the home and actually almost certainly the reverse. They will annoy family members as Gene has pointed out with his family. They might cause structural damage, and probably will to largely American built homes. Even my TLs had enough infrasonic output to give me concerns from my frame built room at our Benedict location. Seriously that was a factor in building a concrete house. As I have said in this thread, we don't even know if it safe to expose humans to infrasonic sound on a regular basis and I strongly suspect it isn't. So just on the doctrine of primum non Nocere, this is a bad idea.

My opinion is that the pursuit of these infrasonic frequencies in home audio and HT is just plain daft, and more than likely unsafe.
There are some studies on the effects of the Solfeggio frequencies with regard to healing and effects down to the cellular/DNA level. They claim some music is healing, while others such as rock, are damaging.

Another study cited by the NIH with regard to low frequency effect on patients with fibromyalgia.

Different frequencies for different purposes and some information relative to the Schumann Resonances.

I was reading about this just the other night and trying some of the frequencies out. 528hz, for example, for 10 minutes, had a nearly if not truly intoxicating effect on me personally. That frequency is claimed to heal, and also to perhaps repair DNA. 75hz, is said to positively effect the CNS.

I'm not particularly fond of frequencies below 20hz, at least not continuously.

I had not read this thread until last night. It caused me to assess my own subwoofers relative to music I am interested in. I listened to jazz, pop and EDM. While I like the effects of EDM or electronic music in general, it wears on me much quicker than say, jazz. I turn the gain down significantly with EDM, as a little goes a long way with me. I do enjoy the double bass when played with a bow and find it pleasing when plucked, like when used in jazz and other less complicated music.

None of the lowest effects included in movies cause me to emulate it at home though. I can get my fix just what is in more common music types and that contained in contemporary jazz. I'd really have to subdue every loose window or door in my house and I am not fond of hearing the sound of windows rattling. That to me is as displeasing as a busted speaker distorting.
 
K

kini

Full Audioholic
Pretty under whelming if just going by the numbers. Really not much better overall than the Mono 16. Not even close to the Cap 4000 of which you could get 2 for that price. Not sure who this sub is for given its relatively low performance per dollar.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Pretty under whelming if just going by the numbers. Really not much better overall than the Mono 16. Not even close to the Cap 4000 of which you could get 2 for that price. Not sure who this sub is for given its relatively low performance per dollar.
I think what we are missing is the fact that it's sealed and in a much smaller footprint

I had an opportunity to buy 2 captivator 4000's and had to turn it down because they are just too HUGE

So the smaller footprint and that kind of output in a sealed sub is very valuable

And don't forget that price is MSRP

Id bet you a good dealer and a serious buyer RBH will be privately making some good deals with customers below that price
 
K

kini

Full Audioholic
I think what we are missing is the fact that it's sealed and in a much smaller footprint

I had an opportunity to buy 2 captivator 4000's and had to turn it down because they are just too HUGE

So the smaller footprint and that kind of output in a sealed sub is very valuable

And don't forget that price is MSRP

Id bet you a good dealer and a serious buyer RBH will be privately making some good deals with customers below that price
Missed the part about it being sealed. However I don't think it outperforms the JTR S2.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Pretty under whelming if just going by the numbers. Really not much better overall than the Mono 16. Not even close to the Cap 4000 of which you could get 2 for that price. Not sure who this sub is for given its relatively low performance per dollar.
Spoken by someone that listens with measurements and no real world experiences. The cea2010 #s don't factor in advantages of LF room gain of sealed vs ported subs. The bass quality of the Monolith sub is not even close to the RBH. Brian Hager had a dual 21 JTR sub and traded for the dual RBH and much prefers the RBH.
 
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Audionut74

Audiophyte
Missed the part about it being sealed. However I don't think it outperforms the JTR S2.
I can attest from first hand experience spending time with both a JTR RS 2 and a signal RBH-21 measurements aside in the real world they are way closer than you mite think. Now in the SQ department the RBH -21 has that area covered but the RS 2 puts on a very good show, Just not as refined.

As far as the dual 21 not being competitive with a JTR 4000ULF that is Laughable if you have actually spent time with both in the same room you know Immediately, that one is not like the other. Making a statement like that comes off like someone just trying to be a keyboard warrior earing points for there camps instead of actually having real world experience with these subs.

Comparing Monolith to the JTR is no less fair than Comparing the JTR to the RBH they are all just at different levels Why you ask? Because they are made for there target audience nothing more nothing less.

Last time I checked Bentley could care less about the updated versions of the Hyundai Genesis or the Lexus GS480 model coming out this year, it's not in its lane nor will it be no matter how much it's customers wish it to be true
 
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Movie2099

Audioholic General
I would like to see a showdown of JTR 4000 vs RBH vs Ascendo 21" subs.

Ascendo is blowing up right now in popularity. JTR has been big for a while and now RBH has entered the arena with their 21" sub. I think Gene should get to work and get these 3 subs in his house "boots on the ground" and do a nice showdown between them. :cool:
 
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Audionut74

Audiophyte
I would like to see a showdown of JTR 4000 vs RBH vs Ascendo 21" subs.

Ascendo is blowing up right now in popularity. JTR has been big for a while and now RBH has entered the arena with their 21" sub. I think Gene should get to work and get these 3 subs in his house "boots on the ground" and do a nice showdown between them. :cool:

I don't think gene would want to deal with those subs just based on the size or weight and the logistics of just moving them around. As far as a showdown these 3 subs are very different in person then what they may appear like on paper.

These are the qualities that IMO that best describe their attributes when dealing with in-person listening sessions and also over the years having done a few installations with these subs on this list as well as many others

JTR 4000 = When the #1 Priority of Extreme ULF output is desired this sub is extremely difficult to beat for the $ at its price point, But If you desire better SQ but unfortunately you will lose some output in comparison I would look no further than S1/S2

RBH U 21 = Exceptional ULF and Extremely musical and the Dual version is ULF Bass Heaven! An extremely well engineered ULF Sub

Ascendo 21 = World Class Mid Bass slam and Decent ULF definitely super tight and clean. Its not really designed to chase the ultimate ULF range in comparison to the 32,50,80in that are more designed for that Ultimate ULF roll, the 21 is more meant to augment there larger subs in there line up to fill in the "gaps"

One that Should be on this list as well
Perlisten D 215 = Reference level Quality Bass! just slightly less output than the other subs on the list in certain areas. Another Master Class design in this Category
 
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Movie2099

Audioholic General
I don't think gene would want to deal with those subs just based on the size or weight and the logistics of just moving them around. As far as a showdown these 3 subs are very different in person then what they may appear like on paper.

These are the qualities that I feel that best describe their attributes when dealing with them in listening sessions and also have done quite a few installations with said subs on this list as well

JTR 4000 = When looking just for Extreme ULF output this sub is very hard to beat for the $

RBH U 21 = Exceptional ULF and Extremely musical and the Dual version is Bass Heaven!

Ascendo 21 = World Class Mid Bass slam and Decent ULF definitely super tight and clean

Should be on this list as well
Perlisten D 215 = Reference level Quality Bass! just slightly less output than the other subs on the list in certain areas
Perlisten would be a nice addition. Another company that's popular within the high-end theater community is Seaton Subs. Their F-18's seem to be the sub of choice.
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Perlisten would be a nice addition. Another company that's popular within the high-end theater community is Seaton Subs. Their F-18's seem to be the sub of choice.
Also Harbottles a friend of mine owns some of their subs and they are AMAZEBALLS
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
I've been eying his raw Drivers for DIY. He has some very unique modeling methodology which allows you to find the theoretical maximum performance from the Drivers, assuming you have good Amplification and DSP capabilities. He encourages modeling his Drivers to within a few mm of Xmech and guarantees fully usable Xmax: properly applied you are able to use full stroke of the Driver without having to guess about point of failure. No other designer builds Drivers like that.
This is why Cody and Nathan are really top of the game, competing with (if not outright besting) major industry players.
Don't mean to detract from Topic. However efficacy can be seen in old DataBass measurements of Cody's Drivers and Funk Subs. Textbook examples of Compression and Distortion performance along with excellent efficiency. For those in the Extreme-Sub game, companies like B&C and Emminence can't compete. You can push those Drivers low, but they aren't meant to do it. Cody has even stated his admiration of the Emminence 21" Driver but has indicated that below roughly 35Hz, it loses what makes it special above that point.

*shrugs

Key things to consider, however, is what level of insanity one wishes to indulge in. This is why companies like RBH have product like this. ;) Same with Magico and probably JL and YG can be added... JTR, as well if you aren't so concerned about looks. Funk and Harbottle both deserve to be mentioned in that company as well!
 
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Movie2099

Audioholic General
Was trying to find some pricing on subs and this is what I could find. The Ascendo prices are retail prices. You can get better pricing through dealers. Hopefully...

Ascendo's 21" Passive Sealed Subwoofer is just under $20k.
18" Passive sealed is around $10,250
24" Passive Sealed infrasonic starts at $23k

This RBH 21" sealed sub starting at $12k seems like a bargain!

JTR 4000's are $5k each. Those are two-18" woofers and can get down to 10.5hz.

Perlisten's D215's which are two-15" woofers can be had for $10k each (retail)

I think RBH is hitting the sweet spot on this new 21" subwoofer.

Just my two cents.
 
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doyleshafer

Audiophyte
I'm so happy (and surprised) that this sub achieves what it was designed for. It is rare to see an infrasonic-focused subwoofer that is still controlled enough to be considered extremely musical.

I remember someone asking Gene a while ago if he would upgrade subs and he replied with something along the lines "I have more than enough subs than I will ever need" ...see, see! Glad you experienced this Gene. I would purchase this subwoofer too if I had the extra channel.
 

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