Questions for the experts.

maximoiglesias

maximoiglesias

Audioholic
Not really questions but rather opinions. Or rather both.
Sound comes from your speakers, so speakers are more important than amplifiers and players. Also room acoustics.
Good sound depends on your source and only your source, Your source being the CD or DVD or SACD that you are playing , not your player.
In my system, which you can see is a BUDGET system, sound comes really impressive with good recorded CDs and DVDs. Why should I spend thousands on brands and specs if I can get the same or better sound buying good recordings?
When the experts review hi fi equipment, what do they use? Your common real people gear? No, they use super good speakers,which to my opinion will sound almost the same as with any amplifier or player. And probably will sound the same with your gear.
I've read almost all of the hi fi magazines in the world, I've read almost all equipment reviews. I've seen many specs in these reviews. Specs dont really tell you how a system sounds. Sound comes out of your speakers and that sound travels through your listening room which is very diferent from all of the others.
Can the experts tell me what is the diference between my Pioneer VSX-516 and a RX-V3900 from Yamaha? Audible diference. Diference that I can notice in my listening room with my speakers? Will there be any?? Will it be worth the price diference?
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Great recordings still won't make up for average gear and at some point the gear does become part of the limitation. What matters there is can you achieve the sound you are after without going overboard in laying out too much cash? The answer is YES. One does not need to spend tens of thousands to have a great system, IMO. Buying speakers that sound the way you like and then appropriate amount of power for them is the way to start, then quality source equipment can help improve the sound to some extent. As you move up in price, the law of diminishing returns grows quickly as your improvement for you $$$ becomes smaller and smaller. So you have to find that "equilibrium" - that level at which you are happy with the sound. I haven't changed my speakers in many years because I love the way they sound, so all I have done is play around with more amplification to get the levels and clarity that I am after.

With receivers it comes down to two things to me: features/capabilities and power. Does it have enough power to deliver the SPL that you are looking for in YOUR room and does it have the features you need for the gear you have. Not only is the room a factor, but simply properly setting everything up will go an IMMMENSE distance toward getting better sound and this is something many compromise on (placement specifically).

I've experimented with this whole thing recently, putting together a truly budget system consisting of a basic amp, average speakers, out of the box interconnects and hardware store wire. Surprisingly, it actually sounded pretty good and it was only with really good recordings that I could hear the limitations of the speakers. Over the weeks I swapped out wires and interconnects to see where my improvements were and the single biggest difference was changing the speakers.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Not really questions but rather opinions. Or rather both.
Sound comes from your speakers, so speakers are more important than amplifiers and players. Also room acoustics.
Good sound depends on your source and only your source, Your source being the CD or DVD or SACD that you are playing , not your player.
In my system, which you can see is a BUDGET system, sound comes really impressive with good recorded CDs and DVDs. Why should I spend thousands on brands and specs if I can get the same or better sound buying good recordings?
When the experts review hi fi equipment, what do they use? Your common real people gear? No, they use super good speakers,which to my opinion will sound almost the same as with any amplifier or player. And probably will sound the same with your gear.
I've read almost all of the hi fi magazines in the world, I've read almost all equipment reviews. I've seen many specs in these reviews. Specs dont really tell you how a system sounds. Sound comes out of your speakers and that sound travels through your listening room which is very diferent from all of the others.
Can the experts tell me what is the diference between my Pioneer VSX-516 and a RX-V3900 from Yamaha? Audible diference. Diference that I can notice in my listening room with my speakers? Will there be any?? Will it be worth the price diference?
As jgaria said plus: this is not a one item break or make deal in audio.
Great speakers placed in a very bad room acoustically will not be so great and may be very bad.
But, some correlate audio to a chain, the weakest link. Well, that is a stretch too.
So, I would say the biggest factor is a triad, in a way, speakers, room and recording quality. If you have the first two but the recording is clipped, no dynamic range and at max recording level will not sound very good at all.
However, you cannot have a difficult speaker load, not very sensitive, and expect it to be driven with a few watts of SET power;):D But, you can get good power for not much $$$.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
First of all, I want to let you know that I've only been involved in this hobby for a few years. But, I agree with you that the recording is the most important thing. A top notch bluray on a Vizio will still look better than a bad DVD on a top of the line Panasonic.

IMHO, it's not really worth spending extra money unless one listens to a lot of classical music. Ok, outside of SACD listeners, or HT type speakers, whatever.

I even have around a hundred jazz recordings, and TBH, a lot of them, in fact by far most of them, don't have very good SQ. Good recording quality with classical is the norm.

When I put on some rock bluray concert on my HT, people just LOVE the audio. The mains are about $500ish for the pair. They do sound great with rock. It's pretty difficult to hear the bit of midbass muddiness, or other smaller compromises, with anything less than 100% acoustic music, and for me personally, specifically classical. With rock, it sounds perfect I might say to most people.

Now, my stereo speakers cost many times over those HT mains. It's a completely different experience. Sure, most people prefer the dedicated HT, but I have several friends who just love and prefer the stereo (crazy imaging, very deep soundstage), and they're not even classical buffs, even though that's pretty much the only thing I feed them.

TBH, if I could only have one of the two, I'd take the HT. The stereo encumbers on my living room, and the HT simply gets more use it seems to me. I can also share it with more people at the same time, whereas with the stereo, the sweet spot is pretty small. Funny thing is that I got into this hobby from an audio first perspective, but have come out of it so far just as excited about video. I don't know, pretty even there perhaps.

Many of my friends simply play back pop/rock via MP3, using tiny cell phone speakers or tiny laptop speakers. :eek:

The difficulty with reproducing classical music has often been said to lie in the spatial information. The preference in obtaining music by physical media such as CD, rather than online, by audiophiles is again for the spatial information, so far as I have read.

I personally think that room acoustics and setup are more important than the speakers chosen, given that the speaker choice is not bose vs b&w. (This has been discussed before here, as you might imagine). I have heard 802Ds in the worst room evah! I even asked the dealer if the tweeters were blown! Just making a point. Or how about pulling a speaker out just an extra foot, reducing midbass muddiness to make it sound better than a speaker costing twice as much sitting at the original position. Endless possibilities. Or how about just having the listener get off the back wall!

So with that said, in order, in my opinion:


1. Source material

2. Room Acoustics/Setup




3. Speakers


















4. Adequate amplification


5. Source players/prepros etc
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I've experimented with this whole thing recently, putting together a truly budget system consisting of a basic amp, average speakers, out of the box interconnects and hardware store wire. Surprisingly, it actually sounded pretty good and it was only with really good recordings that I could hear the limitations of the speakers. Over the weeks I swapped out wires and interconnects to see where my improvements were and the single biggest difference was changing the speakers.
Just curious - could list equipment list of this budget system you tested?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Oh yeah. If you play "Hotel California" from "Hell Freezes Over" on a good $1K 2.1 system compared to "Hotel California" from "Greatest Hits" on a $23K B&W 800D 2.0 system, I bet the sound will be better from "Hell Freezes Over" on the $1K system.:D
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Just curious - could list equipment list of this budget system you tested?
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59010

As far as systems go, there's not a lot to that one :) Over time I changed out only certain things. As I swapped things around, the differences were minor and I have a feeling that has to do with the speakers. I got my system setup the way it currently is, with more amplification and a better source and the same speakers (the CVs) and I could actually hear that the speakers could not give me the fine detail that I normally use with that setup. That is not to say that they didn't sound good; I was surprised that they DID sound as good as they did. The only place they fall a little short when it comes to reproducing fine detals in vocals and the highs are not as "lifelike"; it is almost like listening to a 128K MP3 - it is good, but when you crank it, you can hear where some of that detail has been compressed and lost.

Everything in the chain makes a difference, however some things make less of a difference than others. I compared my old $200 Sony DVD player to the $1K Denon with CD audio and the difference is noticeable, but again it is very subtle details. Comparing my PM7200 to the Amp100, the sound is more similar than not, but the 7200 is a bit less harsh at the top. They are both 100x2 but I can crank the PM7200 higher before distortion is audible - the caps in the 7200 are MUCH larger than those in the Amp100. When I changed the speakers, and there is a BIG difference in cost between these two, the difference was immediately noticeable.
 
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