PSB Image T6 vs B&W 683 vs used Sonus Faber Toy Towers

[ridikas]

Question is....is it audable? If not, then why bother worrying about it.

Between ported and sealed? It's night and day.

 

[3db]

Between ported and sealed? It's night and day.

I've never heard a night and day difference at all when auditioning ported and sealed subs. I wonder if its just your personal preference getting in the way of objectivity.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Between ported and sealed? It's night and day.

I'm sure the difference between amps, preamps, DAC, CD players, and cables is also night and day for you.

 

[ridikas]

I'm sure the difference between amps, preamps, DAC, CD players, and cables is also night and day for you.

I posted very good data for you. There's no reason to be rude...

 

[mtrycrafts]

PSB T6 gets my vote.

But, both of you are in Canada

 

[cpp]

I'm sure the difference between amps, preamps, DAC, CD players, and cables is also night and day for you.

I also hear there is a night and day difference in Alaska in June

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I posted very good data for you. There's no reason to be rude...

To be clear, I wasn't trying to be rude. My point is that there will always be a case of difference in opinion.

Just because you think there is a significant difference doesn't mean others will agree. It's not about facts. It's about opinions.

So let's not talk as if it's a simple case of black and white facts of life.

Saying ported sub is always this or sealed sub is always that as if it is a matter of fact is probably not politically correct.

 

[PENG]

But, both of you are in Canada

Fair enough, okay I think $ for $ they sound much better than Paradigm (also Canadian), happy now?

 

[PENG]

I posted very good data for you. There's no reason to be rude...

You did, and thanks again, but to be fair, I also find it unnecessary to exaggerate any noticeable difference to be day and night, may be late afternoon and early evening would be more realistic in many cases and there was anything rude said IMHO.

 

[ridikas]

To be clear, I wasn't trying to be rude. My point is that there will always be a case of difference in opinion.

Just because you think there is a significant difference doesn't mean others will agree. It's not about facts. It's about opinions.

So let's not talk as if it's a simple case of black and white facts of life.

Saying ported sub is always this or sealed sub is always that as if it is a matter of fact is probably not politically correct.

The measured data is not an opinion though... If you use the same driver, a ported/passive radiator sub will always outperform a sealed sub in extension and distortion. And not just by little, but by a significant amount. Just very simple physics.

 

[3db]

Fair enough, okay I think $ for $ they sound much better than Paradigm (also Canadian), happy now?

And the Axioms and Energy


Cheers eh!!!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The measured data is not an opinion though... If you use the same driver, a ported/passive radiator sub will always outperform a sealed sub in extension and distortion. And not just by little, but by a significant amount. Just very simple physics.

Again, as already pointed out by PENG and 3db, our brains don't hear those numbers. What is on paper is one thing, how we actually perceive the sound is another.

Any measurement is only a snapshot of the overall speaker or subwoofer. There are no standards on making those measurements, so everyone measures differently. How our rooms interact with the speakers & subs is also a factor.

A lot of people claim that sealed subs are better for music. One reason they give is that sealed subs roll off gradually below the tuning frequency, whereas ported subs will drop like a rock off a cliff. You can see that on paper too.

If you ask the sub gurus like Funk, Seaton, Rythmik, SVS, HSU, etc, they will tell you that there are always trade-offs and limits. But well designed subs (like well designed speakers) will sound great.

 

[ridikas]

Again, as already pointed out by PENG and 3db, our brains don't hear those numbers. What is on paper is one thing, how we actually perceive the sound is another.

Any measurement is only a snapshot of the overall speaker or subwoofer. There are no standards on making those measurements, so everyone measures differently. How our rooms interact with the speakers & subs is also a factor.

A lot of people claim that sealed subs are better for music. One reason they give is that sealed subs roll off gradually below the tuning frequency, whereas ported subs will drop like a rock off a cliff. You can see that on paper too.

If you ask the sub gurus like Funk, Seaton, Rythmik, SVS, HSU, etc, they will tell you that there are always trade-offs and limits. But well designed subs (like well designed speakers) will sound great.

I was going to write a longer, more detailed response, but it's simpler to just say that I disagree with absolutely everything you wrote. I can certainly hear the level of distortion in subwoofers. And the people who claim that certain subwoofers are better for music, are the same ones who claim that cryo treated cables sound better.

 

[mtal]

So if I'm not sure whether ported vs sealed is better for music, would it be a good idea to get the Hsu subs that offer flexibility of closing the ports to create a sealed sub?

And is getting two subs worthwhile? My sub budget is about $1200 or so.

 

[ridikas]

The HSU subwoofers are fantastic! You can get two VTF-2 MK4 and they will allow you all the flexibility you could ever ask for, including Q control. And two subs are ALWAYS better than one. Should be one killer bass response.

VTF-2 MK4 Subwoofer

 

[mtal]

I'm in a dilemma now. Used Image T6 for about $800 or 2 yr old Synchrony Two for about $1500? I know Synchrony One is top tier for PSB. How about Synchrony Two? Is there a huge difference is sound between that and Image T6? I think the Imagine line is replacing the Synchrony Two line and some have said they prefer the Image T6 to the Imagine T2.

Any thoughts?

Also, will a Denon 3313 be okay with these, or a NAD 775?

Denon: A/V Receivers, Home Theater Receiver | AVR-3313CI | Denon

NAD: T 775 A/V Surround Sound Receiver - NAD Electronics

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm in a dilemma now. Used Image T6 for about $800 or 2 yr old Synchrony Two for about $1500? I know Synchrony One is top tier for PSB. How about Synchrony Two? Is there a huge difference is sound between that and Image T6? I think the Imagine line is replacing the Synchrony Two line and some have said they prefer the Image T6 to the Imagine T2.

Any thoughts?

Also, will a Denon 3313 be okay with these, or a NAD 775?

Denon: A/V Receivers, Home Theater Receiver | AVR-3313CI | Denon

NAD: T 775 A/V Surround Sound Receiver - NAD Electronics

I would get the Denon 3312. Amazon has the 3312 new for $800.
Amazon.com: Denon AVR3312CI Integrated Network A/V Surround Receiver: Electronics

But I think some people have gotten the 3312 for around $600 new from Electronics Expo when they talk on the phone and negotiate the best deal.

Electronics Expo can do about $750-$800 on a Denon 3313 new.

Yeah, I would go with Denon.

I would also go with the Synchrony Two.

 

[3db]

I concur on the Synchrony twos.

 

[ridikas]

+1 on Synchrony Two.

But in all honesty, the Denon receivers suck. My recommendation is Onkyo. They all have discrete output stages and will sound better. Plus, if you're building a home theater, you must have a THX receiver. It's amazing what the THX algorithms can do for movies. This is how 99.99% of all movies were mixed in a studio. It's a tremendous difference what the processor does to the soundtrack. If you want to hear how the movie was originally mixed, forget the Denon.

 

[NewHTbuyer]

I'm in a dilemma now. Used Image T6 for about $800 or 2 yr old Synchrony Two for about $1500? I know Synchrony One is top tier for PSB. How about Synchrony Two? Is there a huge difference is sound between that and Image T6? I think the Imagine line is replacing the Synchrony Two line and some have said they prefer the Image T6 to the Imagine T2.

Any thoughts?

Also, will a Denon 3313 be okay with these, or a NAD 775?

Denon: A/V Receivers, Home Theater Receiver | AVR-3313CI | Denon

NAD: T 775 A/V Surround Sound Receiver - NAD Electronics

IMO, you should choose an AVR based on features and price, for the most part. I seriously doubt you will notice the difference in sound due to the amp sections when you compare Denon, Yamaha, etc. most modern AVRs can drive most sets of speakers just fine. If you have tough to drive speakers or want more power, then get an AVR with preouts and a dedicated amp.

That being said, NAD is one company that really makes good amps. The one you listed is quite a bit more expensive, but if you can afford it or get a used or refurb one, it will probably be better than either Denon or Onkyo. My NAD stuff from 1992 is still going strong. I also have a Denon from 2008, and it works just fine also, no issues so far.

I agree, go with Synchrony over the Image series.

+1 on Synchrony Two.

But in all honesty, the Denon receivers suck. My recommendation is Onkyo. They all have discrete output stages and will sound better. Plus, if you're building a home theater, you must have a THX receiver. It's amazing what the THX algorithms can do for movies. This is how 99.99% of all movies were mixed in a studio. It's a tremendous difference what the processor does to the soundtrack. If you want to hear how the movie was originally mixed, forget the Denon.

There are many fans of all the major AVR manufacturers. In surfing these boards for years, it seem like Onkyo has become more hit or miss regarding quality and also they get very hot. I have not seen too many complaints regarding Denon, so not sure what you are basing this statement on.

Also, as far as I have read, a non THX receiver may be just as good or better than a THX receiver, the company just may have decided not to pay for the certification. I think THX ratings are meant to deliver certain spls in a certain sized room.

THX Certification Performance Categories « THX.com