PSA updates

[shadyJ]

My next sub purchase will probably be dual PSA XV15's. Lots of slam, new driver, and a price that's hard to beat.

I guess that is a good choice because according to PSA the XV15 has 1.9 times the performance of the PB2000. So my question is, why would anyone ever buy an SVS or Hsu sub when for roughly the same price you get multiple times the performance from a Power Sound Audio subwoofer?

 

[billy p]

I guess that is a good choice because according to PSA the XV15 has 1.9 times the performance of the PB2000. So my question is, why would anyone ever buy an SVS or Hsu sub when for roughly the same price you get multiple times the performance from a Power Sound Audio subwoofer?

What you've received some warning over at AVS about your BS stance against PSA & derailing thread every possible thread...so you come back here where it all started... for you....you're a joke!

 

[shadyJ]

Is there something about my post that you object to?

 

[Steve81]

Moved posts 40-43 to a more appropriate venue.

 

[Basshead81]

Edit: How about a cute picture instead:

 

[Steve81]

Just to be clear:

I do browse through the subwoofer forum at AVS, and I'm aware of the arguments between shadyj & bossobass vs Tom and his supporters. Suffice it to say, this isn't AVS; personal attacks won't be tolerated from either side.

 

[UNCMT9]

Hsu, Rythmik, SVS, PSA. They all make great subs. I'm more than likely choosing PSA because of pricing as well as Tom's excellent customer service.

 

[billy p]

Hsu, Rythmik, SVS, PSA. They all make great subs. I'm more than likely choosing PSA because of pricing as well as Tom's excellent customer service.

In the end that's all that matters. It would be easy to sit back & cherry pick almost any sub...especially any sub built, manufactured, sold and delivered to the public for <1k....heck... I've read, seen and heard signs of minor weakness in other more costly subs...for every individual it all comes down to budget, room constraints and most of all what specific trade-offs you're willing to forgo.

Tom is pretty straight forward and likely the easiest person I've come across to "get a hold-of"... in all the years I've used the ID route to buy my gear and I've used a few.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I guess that is a good choice because according to PSA the XV15 has 1.9 times the performance of the PB2000. So my question is, why would anyone ever buy an SVS or Hsu sub when for roughly the same price you get multiple times the performance from a Power Sound Audio subwoofer?

Wait. What? For about the same price, the PSA is claimed to have almost TWICE the performance?

Has Audioholics or Data-Bass confirmed this or just coming from manufacturer?

 

[shadyJ]

Wait. What? For about the same price, the PSA is claimed to have almost TWICE the performance?

Has Audioholics or Data-Bass confirmed this or just coming from manufacturer?

It's only the manufacturer claiming that. What makes that claim all the more iffy is that the one sub that PSA did have measured by a third party, the XV15, performed nowhere near as well as PSA had depicted. If you want a laugh, look how PSA rates their rest of their products with respect to the competition. It is crazy-ville, through and through.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It's only the manufacturer claiming that. What makes that claim all the more iffy is that the one sub that PSA did have measured by a third party, the XV15, performed nowhere near as well as PSA had depicted. If you want a laugh, look how PSA rates their rest of their products with respect to the competition. It is crazy-ville, through and through.

Data-Bass CEA Standard (THD 10%, 2 Meters Ground Plane) SPL @ 20/32/40/50/63 Hz:
$500 Cadence CSX15MK II: 83.8/93.3/98.6/109.3/115.5
$1200 B&W ASW-610XP: 85.1/96.1/101.5/105.9/108.9
$500 EMP ES1010i: 85.0/97.0/102.5/106.0/105.0
$700 Emotiva X-Ref 12: 81.0/99.1/103.5/107.6/108.5
$1600 Klipsch SW-311: 84.2/102.6/105.3/108.6/111.4
$769 SVS PB12-NSD: 103.2/105.9/106.5/107.3/108.0
$4000 Velodyne DD15+: 97.0/102.0/109.0/109.0/112.0
$900 Aperion Bravus II 12D: 87.0/105.3/109.8/112.6/112.2
$879 Velodyne EQ-MAX15: 84.8/104.2/110.0/114.2/114.8
$1,200 RBH SX-12: 87.7/108.0/111.1/113.7/112.7
$740 Outlaw LFM-1EX: 101.0/110.7/112.3/113.7/113.8
$800 Power Sound XV15: 102.7/109.6/113.7/116.6/114.7
$800 Epik Empire: 102.2/109.7/113.2/116.4/119.2
$2200 JL Audio F112: 92.8/112.4/116.2/113.3/117.6
$1700 Funk FW12X: 107.0/112.4/114.0/113.9/113.1
$1400 SVS PB12+: 107.0/111.5/114.3/115.3/115.3
$9,000 Paradigm Sig Sub2: 106.4/109.9/113.2/116.9/120.2
$1022 Hsu VTF-15H: 103.9/113.0/115.7/115.7/115.6
$5,000 Velodyne DD18+: 103.4/113.0/115.8/116.8/115.3
$2,000 SVS PB13 Ultra: 110.6/115.5/117.5/117.8/116.6
$700 Chase HT VS18.1: 111.1/ 116.0/118.1/117.8/117.2
$1,400 Rythmik FV15HP: 108.1/117.0/119.5/119.1/118.8
$2,500 Funk 18.0: 103.6/114.9/119.9/121.4/121.9
$1890 Funk 18C: 97.6/106.1/112.1/119.1/124.3

Yeah, the PSA performs very well, but it does not seem to perform any better than the best subs in its class.
<O</O

 

[Steve81]

It's only the manufacturer claiming that. What makes that claim all the more iffy is that the one sub that PSA did have measured by a third party, the XV15, performed nowhere near as well as PSA had depicted. If you want a laugh, look how PSA rates their rest of their products with respect to the competition. It is crazy-ville, through and through.

I'll admit that the numbers posted seem a bit high to my eyes; however, I assume Tom checked and rechecked everything before posting. After all, if Josh's numbers for testing the XS15se and XV30Fse come back substantially lower, that's a serious problem.

Edit: Also worth noting, PSA's numbers for the previous version of the XV15 were 1dB higher than what Josh had listed over at Data-bass to account for driver orientation. It's my understanding there won't be any such difference this time around as Josh will be compensating for that on his end similar to how he handled other subs with multiple radiating surfaces ala the Epik Empire and Paradigm Sub 2; the XS15se shouldn't need any compensation of course as it's a single driver sealed sub, and there's no base plate to worry about this time.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The only numbers I care to see are the numbers confirmed by 3rd party Audioholics/Data-Bass.

Just to be fair.

 

[Tom V.]

It's only the manufacturer claiming that. What makes that claim all the more iffy is that the one sub that PSA did have measured by a third party, the XV15, performed nowhere near as well as PSA had depicted. If you want a laugh, look how PSA rates their rest of their products with respect to the competition. It is crazy-ville, through and through.

This is a fabrication with no basis in reality. Our CEA-2010 chart for the XV15 was within a fraction of a decibel of Josh Ricci's/Audioholics data when the proper scaling was applied for driver orientation. Josh has already gone on record saying the scaling we applied was CORRECT. Of course these facts are always left out during these posts filled with half truths or no truth at all in many instances.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

 

[Tom V.]

Data-Bass CEA Standard (THD 10%, 2 Meters Ground Plane) SPL @ 20/32/40/50/63 Hz:
$500 Cadence CSX15MK II: 83.8/93.3/98.6/109.3/115.5
$1200 B&W ASW-610XP: 85.1/96.1/101.5/105.9/108.9
$500 EMP ES1010i: 85.0/97.0/102.5/106.0/105.0
$700 Emotiva X-Ref 12: 81.0/99.1/103.5/107.6/108.5
$1600 Klipsch SW-311: 84.2/102.6/105.3/108.6/111.4
$769 SVS PB12-NSD: 103.2/105.9/106.5/107.3/108.0
$4000 Velodyne DD15+: 97.0/102.0/109.0/109.0/112.0
$900 Aperion Bravus II 12D: 87.0/105.3/109.8/112.6/112.2
$879 Velodyne EQ-MAX15: 84.8/104.2/110.0/114.2/114.8
$1,200 RBH SX-12: 87.7/108.0/111.1/113.7/112.7
$740 Outlaw LFM-1EX: 101.0/110.7/112.3/113.7/113.8
$800 Power Sound XV15: 102.7/109.6/113.7/116.6/114.7
$800 Epik Empire: 102.2/109.7/113.2/116.4/119.2
$2200 JL Audio F112: 92.8/112.4/116.2/113.3/117.6
$1700 Funk FW12X: 107.0/112.4/114.0/113.9/113.1
$1400 SVS PB12+: 107.0/111.5/114.3/115.3/115.3
$9,000 Paradigm Sig Sub2: 106.4/109.9/113.2/116.9/120.2
$1022 Hsu VTF-15H: 103.9/113.0/115.7/115.7/115.6
$5,000 Velodyne DD18+: 103.4/113.0/115.8/116.8/115.3
$2,000 SVS PB13 Ultra: 110.6/115.5/117.5/117.8/116.6
$700 Chase HT VS18.1: 111.1/ 116.0/118.1/117.8/117.2
$1,400 Rythmik FV15HP: 108.1/117.0/119.5/119.1/118.8
$2,500 Funk 18.0: 103.6/114.9/119.9/121.4/121.9
$1890 Funk 18C: 97.6/106.1/112.1/119.1/124.3

Yeah, the PSA performs very well, but it does not seem to perform any better than the best subs in its class.
<o</o

As discussed repeatedly (on this forum and elsewhere) the XV15 data needs to be scaled to compensate for the driver orientation during the test. Josh Ricci has agreed with this as well. Will this put the XV15 as the best subwoofer for every circumstance? Of course not. But if you are going to compare it----put it on an even playing field. That is all we ask..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

 

[Tom V.]

I'll admit that the numbers posted seem a bit high to my eyes; however, I assume Tom checked and rechecked everything before posting. After all, if Josh's numbers for testing the XS15se and XV30Fse come back substantially lower, that's a serious problem.

Edit: Also worth noting, PSA's numbers for the previous version of the XV15 were 1dB higher than what Josh had listed over at Data-bass to account for driver orientation. It's my understanding there won't be any such difference this time around as Josh will be compensating for that on his end similar to how he handled other subs with multiple radiating surfaces ala the Epik Empire and Paradigm Sub 2; the XS15se shouldn't need any compensation of course as it's a single driver sealed sub, and there's no base plate to worry about this time.

As long as the XS15se is tested with the driver facing the mic there shouldn't need to be any type of scaling. With subwoofer that have multiple acoustical "emitters" (driver, PR, port, etc) it gets more complicated.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

 

[Tom V.]

I guess that is a good choice because according to PSA the XV15 has 1.9 times the performance of the PB2000. So my question is, why would anyone ever buy an SVS or Hsu sub when for roughly the same price you get multiple times the performance from a Power Sound Audio subwoofer?

We are not defining the "performance" of the product. We ARE defining the output capabilities per the industry's CEA-2010 measurement protocol. For your above statement to be accurate implies you consider maximum output bursts to be the only metric to consider when purchasing a subwoofer. That may be your POV but we at Power Sound Audio certainly don't agree.

Tom Vodhanel
Power Sound Audio

 

[Tom V.]

Dual PSA XV15se's in my room, eq'd to taste:

View attachment 13510

Please share your thoughts when you have time to go through a few of your favorite discs Bear123. There aren't that many XV15se subs in the field(<100 I'm almost sure) so we're definitely ready to get as much feedback as possible..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

 

[shadyJ]

This is a fabrication with no basis in reality. Our CEA-2010 chart for the XV15 was within a fraction of a decibel of Josh Ricci's/Audioholics data when the proper scaling was applied for driver orientation. Josh has already gone on record saying the scaling we applied was CORRECT. Of course these facts are always left out during these posts filled with half truths or no truth at all in many instances.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

You have already debunked the manner in which you applied that scaling in your own post. The output gained by orienting the driver to mic is not what you listed. But, of course, you know this. You also know this is not the substantive complaint against your claims, which you are seemingly incapable of addressing or defending.

We are not defining the "performance" of the product. We ARE defining the output capabilities per the industry's CEA-2010 measurement protocol. For your above statement to be accurate implies you consider maximum output bursts to be the only metric to consider when purchasing a subwoofer. That may be your POV but we at Power Sound Audio certainly don't agree.

This is an abrupt change of perspective. Every other time I claimed that CEA 2010 was not the only performance metric a subwoofer should be judged by, you accused me of cherry-picking. But now CEA is merely an industry measurement protocol for output bursts? Could have fooled me from reading any of your other posts. That fact is certainly not emphasized on your product pages.

 

[fuzz092888]

Nothing for nothing, but you guys mind taking this to PM's?