Properties of Speakers

j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
For a sub, the adjustments are a little different than an active x-over for other drivers. Subs generally use a passive x-over, but with the ability to adjust parameters of the x-over to suit a room. The bottom octave tends to have the most issues with room interactions, so the phase (preferably variable, not just 0 deg or 180 deg) and x-over point (dial in your blend as needed) controls can be a valuable tool to "tweak" the sound for a given setup.


Buckle-meister said:
5. ....Ideally though, I believe that ported designs aren't what one would want since although ports are 'tuned', the flow of air is still uncontrolled, hence the reason better speakers use 'passive radiators' which move in tandem with the actual drivers to try and negate the air-flow in, necessarily, a sealed cabinet enclosure. Is this true?
Properly designed ported speakers can sound very good. There are a variety of ways to vent a cabinet besides a port, but the resulting goal, sealed or vented, is the same - clean, linear response. There is such a thing as an ideal port design as well, which avoids turbulence generated as the air escapes the enclosure.

6. With room acoustics, a cube is the worst shape of room followed by a square-in-plan shape. So why are so many speaker cabinets made square-in-plan? Wouldn't the ideal speaker cabinet's dimensions all be dissimilar? If so, why don't we see more of this? Would it really be so difficult/expensive?
I'm not sure I understand this question? Are you talking about room shape or physical speaker shape? You did hit on a key point though, baffle size and shape (not including corners, see below) is quite important.

7. What about speaker cabinet edges/corners? Again, with room acoustics, all frequencies tend to find their way into the corners (hence the reason for placing bass-traps there), so why do we make the vast majority of speaker cabinets with straight edges and right-angled corners? Why not curved sides? Purely due to the expense of manufacturing?
Because it really doesn't make that much difference. It's pretty much entirely aesthetic. In the LDC vol6, there's info on a study done on baffle size showing that in order for chamfered corners to be effective, their size would need to be roughly equal to the size of the front baffle, making the speakers quite large in profile and offering little real benefit compared to the added size and cost of construction.

These guys have a straight forward, rather plain looking cabinet design (aside from the beautiful birdseye maple shown) and they sound simply amazing... Read up on their x-over (120dB/octave!!), it's a very interesting type I had not seen before hearing these speakers, and let me tell you, it WORKS.
 
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Buckle-meister

Audioholic Field Marshall
j_garcia said:
I'm not sure I understand this question? Are you talking about room shape or physical speaker shape? You did hit on a key point though, baffle size and shape is quite important.
Firstly, is the baffle the same as the front-face, i.e. the face the drivers are (usually) attached to?

As to your question; the speaker cabinet's shape.

If a square is such a bad geometric shape acoustically speaking, why are so many speaker cabinets made square (in plan)? I would have thought that, as for rooms, a speaker cabinet of dissimilar dimensions would be better.

Regards
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Yes, baffle is what would be considered the front face that the drivers are attached to. The baffle width does play a role in a vertically oriented speaker.

Semi-related, here's another one to ponder: flush tweeters? :) Edge diffraction is one reason why the front baffle of the speaker is a factor; moreso for higher frequencies.
 

Buckle-meister

Audioholic Field Marshall
j_garcia said:
The baffle width does play a role in a vertically oriented speaker.
In what respect? Is a narrow or wide baffle preferred? No, don't tell me; it's not that simple! ;)

Regards
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
No, I don't think it's that simple, though I would say that is likely a fairly true statement. Too wide of a baffle will affect the sound due to edge diffraction - the sound waves are affected by the front baffle's surface, so the wider it is relative to the driver size, the greater that interaction is. How one goes about figuring out what is optimum for a given driver, I don't know.

Check out the driver spacing on my speakers. Notice how the mids overlap the tweeter slightly. This was done, I'm guessing, to get the proper centerline to centerline spacing of the drivers to minimize the interaction of the drivers. Also note the width of the cabinet compared to the driver size. Cabinet volume is achieved by depth:


(those aren't mine, these are my actual mains).
 
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jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
j_garcia said:
These guys have a straight forward, rather plain looking cabinet design (aside from the beautiful birdseye maple shown) and they sound simply amazing... Read up on their x-over (120dB/octave!!), it's a very interesting type I had not seen before hearing these speakers, and let me tell you, it WORKS.
Wow, that speaker design looks VERY similar to a design suggested by Seas, the driver manufacturer.

http://www.seas.no/trym.htm

Edit: obviously the crossover topology is different.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
jaxvon said:
Wow, that speaker design looks VERY similar to a design suggested by Seas, the driver manufacturer.

http://www.seas.no/trym.htm

Edit: obviously the crossover topology is different.
Yep. I know a guy who built a kit based on the same drivers using a "normal" passive x-over (may be that actual design) and he says it still sounded pretty amazing. Those drivers are pretty nice stuff :)
 

Buckle-meister

Audioholic Field Marshall
Just.....can't.....stop...................thinking....:eek:

1. In a multi-driver cabinet, is the cabinet internally split into distinct chambers that are completely sealed off from one another, or can the air circulate within the entire cabinet? Are chambers ever mostly but not completely isolated from other chambers? Might one driver have it's own chamber, but two others share one combined chamber?

2. Passive radiators are also known as ABR-loaded (Auxiliary Bass Radiator). Ports are also known as 'Reflex-loaded'. What exactly does 'Reflex' mean?

3. What exactly does a 'two-way' or 'three-way' design mean? Is it the number of crossover points that there are? I ask because although my own are 'three-way', I have five drivers in addition to the tweeter. The specification refers to the drivers as 1-bass and 4-mid. Would I therefore be correct in saying that the three crossover points for my speakers will be for the tweeter, (all) the mids, and the bass?

4. I know that 'porting' a cabinet reinforces the speakers bass, but how? My front towers have three ports (three-way?, three chambers?). When the music is at moderate volume, if I place my hand at the mouth of the port I can actually feel the air coming out of them. How is air coming out of the back of a speaker making me hear greater bass?

Regards
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
WOW, what's driving this thirst for knowledge? I've been curious about what goes into making a speaker sound good for years too, so I started buying books. It hurt my head at first, but after a lot of reading, it finally started to make a little bit of sense to my over taxed brain. There still seems to be a bit of voodoo if you ask me.

1. In a multi-driver cabinet, is the cabinet internally split into distinct chambers that are completely sealed off from one another, or can the air circulate within the entire cabinet? Are chambers ever mostly but not completely isolated from other chambers? Might one driver have it's own chamber, but two others share one combined chamber?
Depends (no not the diapers, deal with that yourself). They can be, but they don't have to be usually. Some manufacturers do completely isolate the mid and tweeter from the air volume for the bass drivers.

2. Passive radiators are also known as ABR-loaded (Auxiliary Bass Radiator). Ports are also known as 'Reflex-loaded'. What exactly does 'Reflex' mean?
Have to get back to you on that one.
3. What exactly does a 'two-way' or 'three-way' design mean? Is it the number of crossover points that there are? I ask because although my own are 'three-way', I have five drivers in addition to the tweeter. The specification refers to the drivers as 1-bass and 4-mid. Would I therefore be correct in saying that the three crossover points for my speakers will be for the tweeter, (all) the mids, and the bass?
Yes. X-over points, not the number of drivers.

4. I know that 'porting' a cabinet reinforces the speakers bass, but how? My front towers have three ports (three-way?, three chambers?). When the music is at moderate volume, if I place my hand at the mouth of the port I can actually feel the air coming out of them. How is air coming out of the back of a speaker making me hear greater bass?
The port is accentuating a particular frequency, the tuning point of the cabinet, which is based on the cabinet volume, the driver's specs, and the designer's intent. You have three ports because the tuning frequency desired would create a port that was too long to fit in the cabinet, so they used multiple ports to achive the tuning.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
So when will we see your design? Buckle-Meister's Signature Series speakers? :D

Check these out too. Very cool cabinets: TIK.
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
Buckle-Meister said:
Just.....can't.....stop...................thinking ....
1. Depends on the manufacturer. With cheaper speakers, there is generally nothing in the way of isolation. As you spend more money, manufacturers start doing this with their cabinets. The ultimate in terms of isolation would be a design like the B&W Model Nautilus, where every driver has its own chamber.

2. Reflex I guess is somewhat of a misleading term, as there is no "flexing" going on. It's just a term to denote the movement of the air out of the port in reaction to the movement of the driver.

3. You got it. An n-way design uses n crossover points in its crossover topology. You would be somewhat correct. A "crossover point" refers to the specific frequency where the crossover is centered. But you are right in the sense that the three groups in your 3-way speaker are the tweeter, the mids, and the bass.

4. Porting a speaker allows the backwave of the driver to escape the cabinet, which increases sound output. Because the back pressure of the driver is also reduced, it can move more easily which translates to higher efficiency.

The fact that your speakers have three ports is just the design, there is no special name for it.

The air you feel coming out the back of the speaker is the air being pushed by the driver when it is in negative motion [wherin "positive motion" is defined as excursion in the direction away from the cabinet and "negative motion" is defined as the direction into the speaker cabinet]. When a speaker cone moves outward in the positive direction, it compresses the air molecules in front of it. This is called a "compression". The point where it is fully exterted and creating the highest amount of pressure is the peak of the sound wave [for simplicity we're discussing a pure sine wave]. The driver then moves in the negative direction. It keeps going past its equilibrium point [the equilibrium point is the place where the driver will come to rest when no forces are acting on it] to a negative excursion determined by the amplitude of the incident electrical signal. At this point, the driver has created a low-pressure area in the air in front of it. This low-pressure area is called a rarefaction. These two points, the compression and rarefaction, translate to the peaks and valleys on a two dimensional graph of a sine wave. So how does this affect your speaker? Well, you normally are only creating sound from the compressions and rarefactions produced by the front of the driver. When you add a port, a passive radiator, or in the case of the Linkwitz Orion remove the cabinet entirely, you gain the use of the compressions and rarefactions created by the back of the driver cone. This means you have effective two sources of sound waves, operating 180 degrees (or pi radians for you purist types) out of phase. This is the dipole effect. Now, your speakers are not true dipoles because they do not have exposed drivers to the rear. However, the utilization of the backwave is along the same lines as a dipole speaker (like the Orion, Martin Logan designs, or Magnepans).

Note: Bi-pole is not to be confused with Di-pole. A bi-polar speaker has two radiating elements that operate in-phase, meaning that when one exterts outward, the other does the same thing. A di-polar speaker operates 180 degrees out of phase, meaning that when one driver moves out, the other moves in.

And of course, a port on the back of your speaker will increase your bass because it will interact with the room (perhaps a wall) near your speakers and, if they're near a wall or in a corner, you will experience a room-gain.

Edit: Derr...forgot about th port tuning. Thanks Mr. Garcia.
 

Buckle-meister

Audioholic Field Marshall
j_garcia said:
WOW, what's driving this thirst for knowledge?
Understanding is happiness.

j_garcia said:
I've been curious about what goes into making a speaker sound good for years too, so I started buying books.
Why buy books when I have you?! You're the best J Garcia!!! :eek:

j_garcia said:
The port is accentuating a particular frequency, the tuning point of the cabinet, which is based on the cabinet volume, the driver's specs, and the designer's intent.
What? One frequency? Do you mean a range of frequencies centred around a particular frequency?

j_garcia said:
You have three ports because the tuning frequency desired would create a port that was too long to fit in the cabinet, so they used multiple ports to achive the tuning.
Indeed. I just read another post in an adjacent thread. I had no idea ports (thank you Jaxvon) were so long!
 
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Buckle-meister

Audioholic Field Marshall
Out of curiosity (another question might be in the pipeline!), what would a typical crossover frequency to a tweeter be?

Regards
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
There is no typical one, it depends on the driver. B&W uses a 4kHz crossover on their 705 bookshelves, but another manufacturer like Paradigm crosses over their Monitor line of speakers at 2kHz.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Buckle-meister said:
What? One frequency? Do you mean a range of frequencies centred around a particular frequency?
Yes, that would be more correct, but I would suspect the range is pretty narrow, centered around that frequency.

Bass reflex:
The bass-reflex enclosure makes use of a tuned port which projects some of the sound energy from the back of the loudspeaker, energy which is lost in a sealed enclosure. But care must be taken to avoid the back-to-front cancelation of low frequencies which characterizes unenclosed loudspeakers. This is avoided by tuning the cavity resonant frequency of the enclosure to the free-cone resonant frequency of the loudspeaker. This has the effect of projecting bass frequencies from the port in phase with the sound from the front of the cone, at least at the resonant frequency. The overall effect is the increasing of bass efficiency and the extension of the bass response to lower frequencies.
"Normal" tweeters? It's hard to define. Some may start around 1500Hz, others may roll off at 3000Hz and need to be blended higher than that. It is application dependent and will depend mostly on the driver that it needs to be blended with and how smooth of a transition you're looking for. In the typical 2-way, it will likely be lower than it would in a 3-way speaker for example, because the tweeter can be crossed higher due to the fact that the midrange driver is likely covering a higher range as well; handing off only the lowest extension of the speaker as a whole to the bass driver.
 
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Buckle-meister

Audioholic Field Marshall
jaxvon said:
There is no typical one, it depends on the driver. B&W uses a 4kHz crossover on their 705 bookshelves, but another manufacturer like Paradigm crosses over their Monitor line of speakers at 2kHz.
That's ok, it will serve for my purposes (it's just what I thought).

Whilst the human ear is typically taken to hear from 20Hz to 20kHz, I understand that very few instruments play frequencies at either end of the spectrum. I read recently that the major part of music reproduction falls within 12kHz. This being true, and given that a typical tweeter is crossed-over at somewhere around 2 to 4kHz:

Wouldn't this mean that the tweeter was undisputedly the most important driver in any speaker because of the greater proportion of frequency range that it must reproduce compared to the other drivers?

Regards
 

Buckle-meister

Audioholic Field Marshall
j_garcia said:
In the typical 2-way, [the tweeter]...will likely be [crossed-over]...lower than it would in a 3-way speaker for example, because the tweeter can be crossed higher due to the fact that the midrange driver is likely covering a higher range as well; handing off only the lowest extension of the speaker as a whole to the bass driver.
Why wouldn't one always shoot for a tweeter crossed over as low as possible? I mean, given that the other drivers are more massive, which I understand impacts on transient response (how dynamic/quickly the driver can be made to move back and forward I believe?), and the fact that with a larger surface area, almost by inspection, the other drivers will distort more than a tweeter, why not punt more audible information to a nice small, extremely accurately vibrating membrane? :)

Regards
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
Buckle-meister said:
That's ok, it will serve for my purposes (it's just what I thought).

Whilst the human ear is typically taken to hear from 20Hz to 20kHz, I understand that very few instruments play frequencies at either end of the spectrum. I read recently that the major part of music reproduction falls within 12kHz. This being true, and given that a typical tweeter is crossed-over at somewhere around 2 to 4kHz:

Wouldn't this mean that the tweeter was undisputedly the most important driver in any speaker because of the greater proportion of frequency range that it must reproduce compared to the other drivers?

Regards
Ah, but it does not! Remember that music is based around octaves. One octave is a doubling of the frequency. Take the standard tuning note of A440 (440Hz). One octave up from that is 880Hz. So if you crossover at 4kHz on a tweeter, it's only covering around 3 octaves. The midrange is actually the most important driver, as that is where the majority of the sound in music is.

The reason tweeters don't cover more of a range is because of the physical properties of the driver. They simply can't reproduce frequencies below a certain point in the same way a midrange can't produce frequencies at an audible level or with low distortion above a certian level. Also, lower frequencies require much more extension of the driver in order to produce sound at the correct level.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I read recently that the major part of music reproduction falls within 12kHz.
Where'd you read that? I'd be curious to read what else it said. People hear differently, and some are either sensitive to certain freuquencies that others may not be sensitive to or may not hear at all. The vocal range is roughly 300-3000 and IMO, that's what I'm generally listening for when I audition a speaker - the midrange and how clear it is. That was a big factor in my choosing the speakers I own. The highs have an influence too though, as they do play quite a bit of content, a surprising amount actually in some cases. Ever taken a bi-wirable speaker and disconnected one of the terminals? It's interesting when you hear just what each of the drivers is playing.
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
If anyone's experimented with the graphic eq on the Denon 3805, they'd soon realize the frequencies that have the greatest effect on sound are the 250Hz through 2kHz.

63Hz, 125Hz, 4kHz, and 8kHz don't affect the sound nearly as much as those between 250-2000Hz. Denon doesn't even bother putting anything under 63Hz, nor above 8000Hz because so little occurs outside of these frequencies. Many pro-audio eq's rarely go outside the 31.5Hz to 16,000Hz range.
 
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