Problems With Liberal Democracy

[Dude#1279435]

This isn't how ANY government should function.

It was only about 5 months ago that Joe said he wouldn't pardon Hunter and that he's proud of his son. Yeah, that's definitely something to be proud of.

I'm not looking at it as politicized justice, I see it as either lying or forgetting that he said he wouldn't pardon Hunter, neither of which should be tolerated.

We need some serious discussions about what is and isn't to be done and the problem is that in theory, the definitions would be up to Congress to define and enforce and they're about the last ones I would trust.

- We need term limits- they'll never make that happen.
- Lobbying needs to end- ditto.
- They need to divest control over their finances while in office- ditto.
- Some of the benefits they receive sound ridiculous, and they are, but they need to end- once again, ditto.

Careful what you wish for. That means Republicans get scrutinized too.

 

[Mikado463]

Biden’s pardon of his son pours fuel on Trump’s claims of politicized justice | CNN Politics

While I can understand Joe's feelings on the matter, this is another example of why the power to grant pardons should not reside in the hands of one person. This is a very sour note to end his presidency on and his legacy will be tainted by it. Trump will have a field day over this.

This is not how a liberal democracy should function.

This could not have surprised anyone. As for his legacy, LMAO !! By pardoning Hunter, that "10% for the Big Guy" will never be found ...........

 

[GO-NAD!]

This isn't how ANY government should function.

Well, I have low expectations of authoritarian/totalitarian governments, so it wouldn't surprise me that they'd do such things. I hold liberal democracies to a higher standard.

It was only about 5 months ago that Joe said he wouldn't pardon Hunter and that he's proud of his son. Yeah, that's definitely something to be proud of.

I'm not looking at it as politicized justice, I see it as either lying or forgetting that he said he wouldn't pardon Hunter, neither of which should be tolerated.

Joe is definitely in a conflict-of-interest, which is why I stated that the power to pardon shouldn't reside in the hands of a single person. There are no checks and balances to prevent abuse of the privilege. Claiming that the prosecution of his son had been politicized just gives top cover for Trump to go crazy granting pardons to his henchmen...not that he hadn't already done that.

We need some serious discussions about what is and isn't to be done and the problem is that in theory, the definitions would be up to Congress to define and enforce and they're about the last ones I would trust.

- We need term limits- they'll never make that happen.
- Lobbying needs to end- ditto.
- They need to divest control over their finances while in office- ditto.
- Some of the benefits they receive sound ridiculous, and they are, but they need to end- once again, ditto.

While these may be areas worthy of discussion, they are separate from the issue of abusing the presidential prerogative to grant pardons.

 

[GO-NAD!]

This could not have surprised anyone. As for his legacy, LMAO !! By pardoning Hunter, that "10% for the Big Guy" will never be found ...........

It probably won't be found because it doesn't appear to be a thing.
GOP Misleading Claims in Biden Impeachment Investigation - FactCheck.org

Regardless of whatever sins he may have committed, I think history will look on him more kindly than DJT. Of course, that will depend on what benefit #47 derives from this.

 

[highfigh]

Careful what you wish for. That means Republicans get scrutinized too.

Good! They need to be! BTW- this goes along with many of my other comments over the years- if you don't remember me posting "It's our/the voter's duty to be critical of our government", you weren't paying attention or you have forgotten.

I don't care about the parties, I care that our government does what it should and it hasn't, for many years. Congress has had a piss-poor approval rating for a long time and NOTHING is done about it. Voters continue to cast their ballots for incumbents who run unopposed, new candidates come out and are some of the biggest wastes of food & air (George Santos is a great example) and if someone were to ask questions in polls that are actually useful, it would show that easily half of the voters are clueless- they just vote based on emotion, not facts.

The media needs to return to fact-based, verified/verifiable reporting and stop being 'entertainment'. The presenters have been made into stars and their 'facts' aren't, they're usually opinions. The CBS coverage of Election night of 2016 showed that they were dumbfounded by the fact that Hillary lost- one of the comments was "How could we have been so wrong?". Well, they had spent the previous few years telling the viewers who should get their votes, rather than listening to people- this is the same reason Harris lost.

Then, there's the practice in both parties where they bulldoze candidates who aren't seen as 'viable' and shove the guy who has a chance of winning', rather than finding a worthwhile candidate, who will look at their role in the sense of "for the whole country', not 'for my party or those who can give me a lot of money. Don't ignore Joe Biden in this- he's not as clean as many believe and he's definitely not as honest as he claims to be. Then, there's the GOP, who rolls out a clown car every time they should be finding a candidate who'll do what I mentioned. Criminals? Sure, why not? Absolute turds? Go ahead.

WRT the Democrats- I'm effing tired of them shoving someone out there and using "They're the first of their kind to run for this office in America" and "This is an historic candidate". They talk AT people, they tell people what they think people want to hear and they ignore what the people say. Harris spent 3-1/2 years saying that the border and economy were fine and as soon as Joe bowed out, just about all she could say between laughter was that she was going to fix the economy and the border. Well, which is it?

If voters were the parents of our government, they would say "I'm extremely disappointed in you" as if they were bad children, but it wouldn't matter- they're all shameless.

 

[highfigh]

Well, I have low expectations of authoritarian/totalitarian governments, so it wouldn't surprise me that they'd do such things. I hold liberal democracies to a higher standard.

Joe is definitely in a conflict-of-interest, which is why I stated that the power to pardon shouldn't reside in the hands of a single person. There are no checks and balances to prevent abuse of the privilege. Claiming that the prosecution of his son had been politicized just gives top cover for Trump to go crazy granting pardons to his henchmen...not that he hadn't already done that.

While these may be areas worthy of discussion, they are separate from the issue of abusing the presidential prerogative to grant pardons.

What is your definition of 'authoritarian/totalitarian'? It surely can't be anything like a dictator like we have seen in Communist countries- they had almost no freedoms, no ability to find alternatives to what their government forced on them and even free countries are less free than the US, without even considering firearms. It's also nowhere near what was written in 1984. If the US was authoritarian/totalitarian, they wouldn't follow the Constitution and it would have been shyte-canned, by now.

IMO, any pardon should go through a special, non-partisan prosecutor/committee. Well, if they could find that.

WRT pardons, check out Clinton's pardons. Obama's are relatively benign by comparison to Clinton's and Trump's pardons and I definitely don't approve of Trump pardoning violent offenders.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Good! They need to be! BTW- this goes along with many of my other comments over the years- if you don't remember me posting "It's our/the voter's duty to be critical of our government", you weren't paying attention or you have forgotten.

I don't care about the parties, I care that our government does what it should and it hasn't, for many years. Congress has had a piss-poor approval rating for a long time and NOTHING is done about it. Voters continue to cast their ballots for incumbents who run unopposed, new candidates come out and are some of the biggest wastes of food & air (George Santos is a great example) and if someone were to ask questions in polls that are actually useful, it would show that easily half of the voters are clueless- they just vote based on emotion, not facts.

The media needs to return to fact-based, verified/verifiable reporting and stop being 'entertainment'. The presenters have been made into stars and their 'facts' aren't, they're usually opinions. The CBS coverage of Election night of 2016 showed that they were dumbfounded by the fact that Hillary lost- one of the comments was "How could we have been so wrong?". Well, they had spent the previous few years telling the viewers who should get their votes, rather than listening to people- this is the same reason Harris lost.

Then, there's the practice in both parties where they bulldoze candidates who aren't seen as 'viable' and shove the guy who has a chance of winning', rather than finding a worthwhile candidate, who will look at their role in the sense of "for the whole country', not 'for my party or those who can give me a lot of money. Don't ignore Joe Biden in this- he's not as clean as many believe and he's definitely not as honest as he claims to be. Then, there's the GOP, who rolls out a clown car every time they should be finding a candidate who'll do what I mentioned. Criminals? Sure, why not? Absolute turds? Go ahead.

WRT the Democrats- I'm effing tired of them shoving someone out there and using "They're the first of their kind to run for this office in America" and "This is an historic candidate". They talk AT people, they tell people what they think people want to hear and they ignore what the people say. Harris spent 3-1/2 years saying that the border and economy were fine and as soon as Joe bowed out, just about all she could say between laughter was that she was going to fix the economy and the border. Well, which is it?

If voters were the parents of our government, they would say "I'm extremely disappointed in you" as if they were bad children, but it wouldn't matter- they're all shameless.

Isn't convincing when a right complains a left does it etc. Usually means deep down they don't. Left left, or right right is about the good spot.

 

[Trell]

What is your definition of 'authoritarian/totalitarian'? It surely can't be anything like a dictator like we have seen in Communist countries- they had almost no freedoms, no ability to find alternatives to what their government forced on them and even free countries are less free than the US, without even considering firearms.

Seriously? :facepalm:

It's also nowhere near what was written in 1984.

Are you referring to the book 1984?

If the US was authoritarian/totalitarian, they wouldn't follow the Constitution and it would have been shyte-canned, by now.

I see you're busy hacking straw men and exercising your cardiovascular system.

 

[GO-NAD!]

What is your definition of 'authoritarian/totalitarian'? It surely can't be anything like a dictator like we have seen in Communist countries- they had almost no freedoms, no ability to find alternatives to what their government forced on them and even free countries are less free than the US, without even considering firearms. It's also nowhere near what was written in 1984. If the US was authoritarian/totalitarian, they wouldn't follow the Constitution and it would have been shyte-canned, by now.

IMO, any pardon should go through a special, non-partisan prosecutor/committee. Well, if they could find that.

WRT pardons, check out Clinton's pardons. Obama's are relatively benign by comparison to Clinton's and Trump's pardons and I definitely don't approve of Trump pardoning violent offenders.

There is no suggestion of the US being authoritarian or totalitarian in my post. I'm referring to countries like Russia and China. I have no expectation that - even if they were at all possible in such countries - pardons would be granted in an impartial manner. I have higher expectations for countries such as the US. A self-respecting liberal democracy should not put such unmitigated power in the hands of one person.

 

[Trell]

There is no suggestion of the US being authoritarian or totalitarian in my post. I'm referring to countries like Russia and China. I have no expectation that - even if they were at all possible in such countries - pardons would be granted in an impartial manner. I have higher expectations for countries such as the US. A self-respecting liberal democracy should not put such unmitigated power in the hands of one person.

They also imprison innocent foreigners to use them as hostages to release criminals in other countries.