Problems With Liberal Democracy

Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
but was it made hard because of the color of your skin?
Have you read that articles GO-NAD! linked to?

Here they are:

 
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jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Have you read that articles GO-NAD! linked to?

Here they are:

I did read it.

So let me get this straight:

I post a video of white liberals being interviewed about voter ID laws, followed up blacks that all have an ID. Something I used as a singular example and I was told:

"No, that's empty Fox nonsense"

So If it's that easy to dismiss what I posted I will avail myself of my goose to your gander ;-)
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
I did read it.

So let me get this straight:

I post a video of white liberals being interviewed about voter ID laws, followed up blacks that all have an ID. Something I used as a singular example and I was told:

"No, that's empty Fox nonsense"

So If it's that easy to dismiss what I posted I will avail myself of my goose to your gander ;-)
The problem is it uses mostly kids as the bar. I think what they were going for was blacks in "poverty." Looks like to me most of the blacks interviewed were not in poverty. If Harlem, NY is the destination for poverty....wow, look at all the nice, middle class vehicles parked around there.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
I did read it.

So let me get this straight:

I post a video of white liberals being interviewed about voter ID laws, followed up blacks that all have an ID. Something I used as a singular example and I was told:

"No, that's empty Fox nonsense"

So If it's that easy to dismiss what I posted I will avail myself of my goose to your gander ;-)
Voter ID | Brennan Center for Justice
The difference is that the Fox clip shows how easy it was for a handful of people to get ID. The links I posted explain how it is difficult/impossible for millions of people to get ID. So, either the Brennan Center for Justice is lying about the number of people who can't get ID, or the numbers are real, but those people are simply too feckless to go get one?
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
The problem is it uses mostly kids as the bar. I think what they were going for was blacks in "poverty." Looks like to me most of the blacks interviewed were not in poverty. If Harlem, NY is the destination for poverty....wow, look at all the nice, middle class vehicles parked around there.
But you fave to prove that it's systemically racist. So the dumbest, poor white person, is still smarter than the smartest poor black person?
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
but was it made hard because of the color of your skin?
Nope. I'd love to be able to tell you what the difference was. Every DMV I've been to has been in a decently populated area. I have no idea why it was so insane in one county vs another.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
But you fave to prove that it's systemically racist. So the dumbest, poor white person, is still smarter than the smartest poor black person?
I won't say that the issue is overtly racist. It may be coincidental that it seems to disproportionately affect POC.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
More of a situation where they had a valid ID when they started, but it expired or got lost along the way.
...or they're retired, or the documents they have were sufficient to be (legitimately) employed. The articles I linked provided examples of the problems people face when trying to get ID.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
If all kids went to public schools, do you think the more wealthy and powerful parents would put up with the state that you describe? No, they wouldn't. They would have a vested interest in - and the political muscle to ensure - a well-run education system.

You can cherry-pick Milwaukee as a bad example. Many of the problems you describe in your public schools are byproducts of poverty. I'll cherry-pick the public schools in my area. I am not a wealthy person. As much as I would love to have top of the line A/V equipment, it's never going to happen. We live in a 3-room bungalow in a working-class area. There was no way I was going to dish out tuition for private schooling for my daughter and university. So, she went to public schools and received a fine education. She is in her third year of university and just made the dean's list.

Private Schools Are Indefensible - The Atlantic
This passage sums it up in a nutshell:
And, where do you live?

I'll cherry pick a Chicago school that's the polar opposite of MKE's school system-


So, you don't want people to think differently? Do you really think wealthy people would stay in a place where they have no say in where their kids go to school?
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
The problem is it uses mostly kids as the bar. I think what they were going for was blacks in "poverty." Looks like to me most of the blacks interviewed were not in poverty. If Harlem, NY is the destination for poverty....wow, look at all the nice, middle class vehicles parked around there.
Keep looking- that's not the only video of people being asked these questions.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
And, where do you live?

I'll cherry pick a Chicago school that's the polar opposite of MKE's school system-

I live in a suburb of Halifax, Nova Scotia. I had to read up a bit on charter schools, because they aren't a thing here. It looks like a hybrid private/public type of school. Then I came across this article:
Charter Schools – an idea whose time has gone. Part 1 - Nova Scotia Advocate (nsadvocate.org)
Charter schools, an idea whose time has gone – Part 2 - Nova Scotia Advocate (nsadvocate.org)
Summary: The author is not a fan. In the NS context, charter schools look like a solution in search of a problem.

So, you don't want people to think differently? Do you really think wealthy people would stay in a place where they have no say in where their kids go to school?
Do you believe that public schools produce unthinking robots? And, if there are only public schools, where would they move to?
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I live in a suburb of Halifax, Nova Scotia. I had to read up a bit on charter schools, because they aren't a thing here. It looks like a hybrid private/public type of school. Then I came across this article:
Charter Schools – an idea whose time has gone. Part 1 - Nova Scotia Advocate (nsadvocate.org)
Charter schools, an idea whose time has gone – Part 2 - Nova Scotia Advocate (nsadvocate.org)
Summary: The author is not a fan. In the NS context, charter schools look like a solution in search of a problem.


Do you believe that public schools produce unthinking robots? And, if there are only public schools, where would they move to?
As I told Trell- if you haven't lived here, don't tell my I'm wrong. The people in Nova Scotia or anywhere, really, are not the same as people here.

I'm not saying that all public schools are bad- I went to them until college but at that time, we weren't barraged by teachers telling us what to think, as they do here. Yes, they do- you may not want to believe it, but they do. However, WHERE the schools are makes a difference. Unfortunately, the "you need to know 'this' " occurs n both extremes, so it's not a matter of only one side doing it.

Schools are supposed to teach how to think critically, not what to think but if you were to come here and talk to people below the age of 30, you would be amazed by what they don't know- you know more about this country than they do. For that matter, many people outside of the US know more and that's a problem because they don't have the ability to think in terms of 'how will this help the country?", rather than "What's in it, for me?". Kids aren't very interested in history, so rather than grade them low, they dumb it down so they'll pass. Why would a Math class need to mention CRT? For that matter and WRT secondary ed, why would a college history professor need to force her views about anything on the students?

The link shows part of the problem and it affects all of us in this area, in many ways. If they don't learn the material by the end of high school, and the Math/Reading proficiency ratings show they aren't, they'll never be able to land a job that pays well unless they have some special skill that doesn't require academic excellence. Unless they're lucky and find a job where employees are taught what is needed, outside of the work skills.


There's nothing easy about this but IMO, people need to stop using hot buttons to get what they want, on all areas of the political spectrum. Class warfare needs to stop and the main targets of opportunity are the 'rich', as Pelosi calls them. Well, she IS one of the 'rich', but nobody wants to talk about the people whose names are on hospitals, schools, public programs and in other aspects of society where the ones who gave large parts of their wealth did it do help people. Sure, they might be able to see their names on these, but only if they make the endowment while they're alive and coherent. Some/many do it as a bequeathment, sometimes because they had nobody else to leave it to but it doesn't happen without serious thought.

I hate seeing people who are stuck in their position in life without a decent way out. Locally, I blame the city government and politics in general, in Milwaukee. It has been contentious my whole life and I'm 65- my parents built their house in a suburb (not a ritzy one, either) so they didn't have to deal with the problems, but we lived only 3 blocks away, so the crime has always intruded into the area. The public schools in this area (I moved back, after 16 years in the city) are definitely better and the $/student is higher because it's a very small district, but MKE spends more/student than all but a few schools in large cities, according to the link. The problem with the MPS budget is the fact that so much is spent on pensions, which WOULD have been less costly if the pension program had been managed more sensibly.


I don't think the MKE schools produce thoughtless robots, but the end results aren't good- the kids need to be interested, or they'll never succeed and when the news crew and meetings have kids saying "There's nothing for me, there", the school board needs to pay attention. The MKE school board has had infighting and problems with members cooperating for a long time- that needs to change.

Nobody benefits when schools fail. Property tax pays for most of the cost and, while it's expensive in Wisconsin, most of us who don't have kids pay it willingly because it's absolutely necessary.
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
But you’re fine with inbred hillbillies voting. ;)
Imagine if we had educated hillbillies- it would ruin the whole image.

People talk about compensatory voting- that, by nature, includes people who don't know what the candidates stand for, want to do, etc yet everyone has the right to vote. If you had been here to listen to people's comments after the ballots were cast during some elections, you would be amazed. They weren't talking about the issues.
 
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