Power "conditioning" is hype?

[Lithp]

My electrician, who used to build electronics said that a power conditioner, which provides a constant voltage rate to receiver, tv, etc. is absolutely unnecessary and is nothing but hype. his argument is as follows (bear with me I don't know much about electricity and electronics so I'm trying to quote from memory):

1. the notion of "dirty power" is not a concern within city limits where cables are often underground. In the country it is more of a concern.
2. Good surge protection is all that is needed, and it doesn't have to cost alot.
3. The "conditioning" of power is irrelevant, as all electronics "step down" voltage to a certain level required for the component and have transistors and capacitors, etc that regulate the power flow at a fairly constant rate and have been doing so effectively for decades.- sorry, I didn't understand the terminology he was using here. If this argument sounds stupid or poorly expressed it is my fault and not his.
4. The longevity of a component is not increased to any great degree if one uses a conditioner.
5. Any increase is sound or video would be imperceptible to the human ear/eye when used in everyday electronics. This is also true with speaker wire guages in rooms of an average size , i.e. less than 50 ft in any direction.

I tend to believe what his is saying as I have done some research on this matter. The problem is my I am not very knowledgeable about these matters. Any second opinion would be appreciated.

If anyone decides to respond to this please be more specific than "Your electrician doesn't know what he's talking about" or "He is absoelutely right". I am hoping to learn from this. Any links, eduactional materials to support your response will be greatly appreciated.

 

[sjdgpt]

I will agree and disagree with your electrician.... I think there may be a confusion of terms being used... a power regulator, an electrical appliance that is designed to provide a constant (regulated) voltage to the attached equipment is overkill for most modern electronic audio equipment, AND, according to one online "rag" was actually detrimental to the audio equipment in that it produced more EMI noise than it reduced, and failed to improve the performance of the equipment. If he is referring to a power regulator, then I agree with his position.

But electrical noise, RFI and EMI, is produced through out the world, and it is those sources of noise that need suppression, or elimination, through a power conditioner. This is especially for TV's, but all audio equipment, as well as computers and other electronic items, can benefit from the reduction of electrical noise. RFI and EMI noise is on the increase as more electronic devices are put into service, and as the existing equipment ages.


A power conditioner is not a power regulator, nor is a power conditioner an Uninterruptible Power Supply (a battery device hooked up to computers etc for continous power in the event of failure of commercial power).

A power conditioner, as we are using the term, is a device that limits RFI and EMI noise that is generated within your home, or community, from entering the components that are attached.

The RFI and EMI noise is heard as pops, hums, crackling, snow, and buzzing. If significant RFI/EMI noise is present, equipment, especially speakers, can be damaged. Most modern electronic devices have built-in noise suppression circuits which were designed to handle noise generated by its own internal circuits, as well as common components normally found in close proximity to the unit, but these circuits are not specifically designed to handle the noise generated by your old central AC motor kicking on and off every 3 minutes, or the noise generated by your neighbor's ham radio operation, or the electrical noise generated by a lightening strike 100's or even 1000's miles away.

Typically a power conditioner is built into a surge protector, and the combined component can be purchased for well under $100, with many units even under $50.



By the way, my office computer generates such great EMI noise that the office TV goes ape $hit every time the computer is started up. The TV is one of those little $89 color TV's. Sure spending the money for a power conditioner seems like a waste of money for such an inexpensive TV, but I had a spare unit laying around. Solved all the problems.

 

[Leprkon]

1. the notion of "dirty power" is not a concern within city limits where cables are often underground. In the country it is more of a concern.
4. The longevity of a component is not increased to any great degree if one uses a conditioner.
5. Any increase is sound or video would be imperceptible to the human ear/eye when used in everyday electronics. This is also true with speaker wire guages in rooms of an average size , i.e. less than 50 ft in any direction.

1. power in a household becomes dirty due to other devices (icemakers, hair dryers, electric bathroom heaters, any kind of motor starting up) sucking off large amounts of current for short periods of time.
4. As SJ mentioned, a power conditioner or voltage regulator such as a well-constructed UPS that uses AC in, battery out power feed) will protect your speakers, receivers, and TVs from snap, crackle, and pop (TM) that WILL shorten their lives.
5. if you can hear snap, crackle, and pop, they are NOT imperceptible. a power conditioner or voltage regulator will not make every single note sound clearer, but it DOES get rid of the trash noise.

I'm not saying your electrician is not a good electrician, he's just not a good HT man...

 

[jaxvon]

That is indeed true. You may not need a voltage regulator for all of your equipment (Like the monster AVS2000), but power conditioning is important (for the above reasons). Many times if you have a resistor switch on the same circuit as your HT gear (shame on you if you did), you could definitely get a loud buzzing coming from the speakers. The only way to eliminate this is with a power conditioner.

While these come in monsterous rack mounted units, you can get ample conditioning and surge supression in a bar form. A Tripp-Lite Isobar or HTPowerBar will do the trick. Monster also sells similar stuff, but they're turned into an evil giant recently, so I would say to avoid them out of principle.

 

[Lithp]

Very interesting,
Thank you all for your informative answers. After reading them I think I was referring to a power regulator.
Again, the notion of a component having internal mechanisms"stepping down" the voltage to suitable levels is still valid then I am assuming? (And devices which provide a constant 120v are not necessary?)
The conditiong of power is different I see. From what I have read here a power conditioner reduces the amount of RFI, EMI and other interfering sources which travel to a component. Can I assume then that if you do not use sheilded cables which stem from that component to another device or component you will still have the same problem? Or is the majority of the interferece at the power source?

Thanks again,

 

[sjdgpt]

(And devices which provide a constant 120v are not necessary?)

Correct. For most equipment (such as a DVD player) the internal power supply and transformer is able to handle the range of voltages that may be received through the commercial power, and will apply the appropriate stepup (or stepdown as needed) to maintaine the constant voltage needed within the equipment.

Can I assume then that if you do not use sheilded cables which stem from that component to another device or component you will still have the same problem? Or is the majority of the interferece at the power source?

The biggest source of noise is introduced through the power supply from friendly neighborhood equipment issues.

That means unshielded cables could pickup and transmit some noise, especially if the source of the noise is close to the equipment/cable.

 

[Richard Black]

I have listened to the noise on the household power wiring, using an isolation amp and a high-pass filter to remove the line frequency itself (and optionally the first few harmonics). I can assure you it's filthy. But just how much of that gets into your sound system, and to what extent power conditioners can help, is another matter entirely.

I actually tested one conditioner for a magazine that _produced_ line noise, about 40dB above the pre-existing noise within the audio bandwidth. I refused to write the review up, and the importer dropped the product.

Richard

 

[sjdgpt]

I have listened to the noise on the household power wiring, using an isolation amp and a high-pass filter to remove the line frequency itself (and optionally the first few harmonics). I can assure you it's filthy. But just how much of that gets into your sound system, and to what extent power conditioners can help, is another matter entirely.

Most modern equipment has some internal features/components/circuits designed to limit or remove some of the noise that is present. An example would be a DVD recorder... the manufacturer knows/suspects that the unit may be located very close to a TV, and would design the unit to limit noise commonly generated by that possible TV. Those noise limiting circuits would also serve to limit other sources of noise. Another example is the noisy tuner built into most receivers, the receiver designer must suppress that noise source, and obviously those circuits would suppress other sources of noise.

So you are right, some, maybe even much of the line noise may never actually reach our ears. But some will. So why not just install a pre-emptive
line conditioner?

 

[warnerwh]

There's also the possiblity of having strong surges in your area. A quality power conditioner can eliminate these. My last house was near an industrial area and sometimes I'd hear a giant "thud" like someone dropped a giant boulder on the house and the power would go out and then back on. This happened with some regularity. The power company refused to admit it for a long time. I have thousands invested in equipment. I use Oneac and Powervar and a Tripplite commercial grade conditioners now. They sure don't seem to hurt anything. You can get them used on Ebay for a fraction of retail and they are built to last. Just be sure you get high enough amperage ratings for what you need. Some headroom on the amperage rating is a good idea too.

 

[dohanc]

Richard Black: I was curious as to how exactly you "listened" to the noise coming in from the AC line. I am looking into all this "power conditioner hype" and am not buying all of it. I occasionally get a crackle from a high voltage fluorescent light being shut off, but other than that, everything is quiet here.

I am interested to see just how noisy the line is though. The quickest way I can think to do is to take 2 channels of a scope and add them internally on the scope. However this will not pick up any common mode noise. How did you measure it with your filter? Your high pass RC filter is also a good idea, but not sure what you used the isolation transformer for?

 

[Richard Black]

<<I was curious as to how exactly you "listened" to the noise coming in from the AC line.>>

Don't try this at home, folks! Not, that is, unless you have a designed-for-the-job isolation amp and experience working with dangerous voltages. You just build a simple HP filter so that the isolation amp doesn't get overloaded, then connect it across line and neutral, line and earth, etc., and connect the output of the amp to your stereo or a pair of headphones

 

[dohanc]

I'm still a little confused as to why you used the isolation transformer for that test? Wouldn't the isolation transformer actually reduce any EMI coming through the wires? Why not just hookup the RC filter directly to the mains? Why go through the transformer? Or was your transformer actually being used to reduce the AC voltage?