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Darrenmc

Audioholic Intern
Just curious if anyone has had any experience with the PMC FB1+ speakers? I currently have Anthony Gallo 3.1's but have found the base to be a bit thin and my dealer suggested the FB1+'s would be a good choice to fix that. I really love the Gallo's and don't get much time with the PMC's to demo. They need a really long break in period so I'm hesitant to make the switch. Any thoughts would be appreciated??? Rest of the gear is a Bryston BCD-1 cd player and an Esoteric AI-10 integrated amp.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Just curious if anyone has had any experience with the PMC FB1+ speakers? I currently have Anthony Gallo 3.1's but have found the base to be a bit thin and my dealer suggested the FB1+'s would be a good choice to fix that. I really love the Gallo's and don't get much time with the PMC's to demo. They need a really long break in period so I'm hesitant to make the switch. Any thoughts would be appreciated??? Rest of the gear is a Bryston BCD-1 cd player and an Esoteric AI-10 integrated amp.
PMC are a British speaker firm, taking the world by storm in Europe right now.

They are seriously twisting B & W tail in the professional market. They have partnered with Bryston to produce active speakers.

There designs are largely aperiodically damped transmission lines. As far as I know they are the only speaker firm producing the traditional TL that I favor above all others. The small offerings are labyrinths. They seem to have picked up the mantle from TDL.

I have not heard these speakers, but have heard nothing but good about them, and they have garnered some rave reviews.

The speaker you are looking at has bass extension to 28 Hz from a 6.5" diameter cone.



I would give these speakers a listen and seriously consider them.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
PMC are a British speaker firm, taking the world by storm in Europe right now.

They are seriously twisting B & W tail in the professional market. They have partnered with Bryston to produce active speakers.

There designs are largely aperiodically damped transmission lines. As far as I know they are the only speaker firm producing the traditional TL that I favor above all others. The small offerings are labyrinths. They seem to have picked up the mantle from TDL.

I have not heard these speakers, but have heard nothing but good about them, and they have garnered some rave reviews.

The speaker you are looking at has bass extension to 28 Hz from a 6.5" diameter cone.



I would give these speakers a listen and seriously consider them.
These Totems aren't TL but even with their single 6.5" driver, they can dig down to 33 Hz according to their specs;

http://www.totemacoustic.com/products/columns/forest/specifications/
 
AJinFLA

AJinFLA

Banned
Just curious if anyone has had any experience with the PMC FB1+ speakers? I currently have Anthony Gallo 3.1's but have found the base to be a bit thin and my dealer suggested the FB1+'s would be a good choice to fix that. I really love the Gallo's and don't get much time with the PMC's to demo. They need a really long break in period so I'm hesitant to make the switch. Any thoughts would be appreciated??? Rest of the gear is a Bryston BCD-1 cd player and an Esoteric AI-10 integrated amp.
I've heard PMC's (can't remember the particular model) before. Typical, low efficiency cone n' dome box type sound...if that is what you crave.
IMHO, your $$ would be much wiser spent on a) a subwoofer or b) an eq between the Bryston/AI. Or maybe repositioning your Gallos a bit.
The Gallo's have a 10" Peerless XLS subwoofer, so even in the small "chic" enclosure, it will still put out more, less distorted bass than a reflex 6.5" driver like the PMC...and it won't deteriorate the midrange during high excursions...like the PMC. They also go low enough to easily integrate with a sub.
You may simply need a little eq (or a lot, especially below the schroeder frequency of the room, where modes are spaced and dominate) which you may not realize. For <$300, something like a DEQ2496 can make a dramatic improvement to the sound, including the bass. The Peerless has sufficient displacement capability to handle judicious eq.
Or you could be in an anti-node, in which case neither the eq or PMC won't help. That would require a (sometimes slight) reposition of the loudspeaker.

cheers,

AJ
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
These Totems aren't TL but even with their single 6.5" driver, they can dig down to 33 Hz according to their specs;

http://www.totemacoustic.com/products/columns/forest/specifications/
Yes but a TL like that will support the driver much more evenly over about an octave and a half.

The flagship PSB uses three woofers in separate enclosures with different tuning. That is complex, and they still ended up with a bass hump around 100 Hz which will, and must be audible. If they had used a TL they would have had even support without the lumps and a much simpler crossover. I don't think the carpentry would have been any more complex either. So they could have achieved the effect they wanted more simply with a TL and had a better speaker at the end of their effort.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
Yes but a TL like that will support the driver much more evenly over about an octave and a half.

The flagship PSB uses three woofers in separate enclosures with different tuning. That is complex, and they still ended up with a bass hump around 100 Hz which will, and must be audible. If they had used a TL they would have had even support without the lumps and a much simpler crossover. I don't think the carpentry would have been any more complex either. So they could have achieved the effect they wanted more simply with a TL and had a better speaker at the end of their effort.
Which model are you talking about? Paul Barton is pretty careful about things like this espcially for their flagship line.

Here's the curves for the Synchrony ones which are now considered there flagship I think..


I don't see a hump at a 100Hz
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Which model are you talking about? Paul Barton is pretty careful about things like this espcially for their flagship line.

Here's the curves for the Synchrony ones which are now considered there flagship I think..



I don't see a hump at a 100Hz


I'm talking about this hump in the response of the Synchrony 1.



From this review in Stereophile.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
TLS, wouldn't the listeners (when sitting face on) here the overall response of the system as in the 1st graph measured at the NRC rather than the indvidual drivers as depicetd in your graph?

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/psb_synchrony_one/


It is there. It shows in your graph as well. The bass end response is very lumpy. There are actually two humps in the bass decay. The higher one would be the most noticeable. A 5 db hump at 90 to 100 Hz would be very audible, and make the speaker very position sensitive.

The reviewer noted that, as well as imparting a humming sound to piano. That is exactly what I would expect from the curves.

The designer is trying to solve a big problem of ported speakers, which is port kick in. The port assists the driver over a very narrow frequency range. However having three tuned cavities with three ports radiating different frequencies would be very hard to pull off.

On the other hand a properly constructed TL will give the drivers a gentle smooth assist over 1.5 octaves. And the bass roll off will be 12 db per octave to the region a little below Fs of the driver, unlike ports the roll off 24 db per octave. So you get a stronger low bass from a TL.

I'm excited to see PCM blazing a trail. We have not had a speaker manufacturer producing a large line of TL speakers since TDL closed their doors, some years after the untimely death of John Wright. PCM seem to be making big waves in the professional studio world, and have been really noticed by Bryston, who are developing active speakers with them. I hope I can get a chance to audition them at some time.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord


It is there. It shows in your graph as well. The bass end response is very lumpy. There are actually two humps in the bass decay. The higher one would be the most noticeable. A 5 db hump at 90 to 100 Hz would be very audible, and make the speaker very position sensitive.
If I measure 5db down from the highest bass bump (89db) , I get 84 db but at that point, I'm sitting down between 50 and 55 Hz. Are you speaking relative to the 50Hz point because a big part of the frequency curve lies at 89 db.
 
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Darrenmc

Audioholic Intern
Thanks for the replies and info guys and great banter. It seems to be one for the Gallo's and one for the PMC's. Anyone else have an opinion or can comment on the PMC's?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
If I measure 5db down from the highest bass bump (89db) , I get 84 db but at that point, I'm sitting down between 50 and 55 Hz. Are you speaking relative to the 50Hz point because a big part of the frequency curve lies at 89 db.
From the graph I'm estimating the average level at around 87 db. However the 90 to 100 Hz range is peaking to 89 then drooping and peaking to 89 db at 75 Hz, with a rapid fall off to a shelf at 82 db from 40 to 60 Hz followed by a typical Qb4 box roll off of 24 db per octave.

That will be perceived as too much energy in the 75 to 100 Hz range. A smoother roll off from 90 Hz would likely sound better. I have to say that was lot of work for little gain and some disadvantages.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
I heard the AML-2's at a pro audio store in NYC.
So it was this active loudspeaker.

These smaller speakers are labyrinths.

This is their flagship pro monitor speaker.

The unit has a mid driver that looks as if it is made for them by ATC. ATC make the best mid range driver in the planet.

The low end response extends to 17 Hz.

There is a 300 watt amps on the tweeters and mid range, so 600 watts above the woofers. there are 900 watt amps on each of the 15" woofers. So 2.4 KW for each speaker.

They also make a matching TL sub.

I see they are in three of the BBC studios at Maida Vale. If the BBC are using them their, that is about the highest praise for any speaker company. I can not think of a higher accolade. The BBC have always been partial to TLs and have a long history with them.

This is its domestic equivalent.

I sure would like to give a pair of those TL's a listen. I hate to think what a pair would cost.

On a negative note. PMC have dumbed down their website. They used to be much more forthcoming on details, and had clear drawings of the line anatomy.
 
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Darrenmc

Audioholic Intern
I should have mentioned that I listen mostly to rock/metal music and I'm now thinking the PMC's would be better suited to that kind of music.
 
haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Spartan
Vandersteen uses TL's in all his speakers for tweeter, midrange and upper bass, and then closed box with eq in the lowest bass, not quite according to your preferences TLS, but still a strong TL supporter

Wouldn't Fried products be designed with properly tuned TL's, to me they look like very interesting speakers :D
http://www.friedproducts.com/
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Vandersteen uses TL's in all his speakers for tweeter, midrange and upper bass, and then closed box with eq in the lowest bass, not quite according to your preferences TLS, but still a strong TL supporter

Wouldn't Fried products be designed with properly tuned TL's, to me they look like very interesting speakers :D
http://www.friedproducts.com/
To be honest, I had no idea Fried were still around. If you look at there site, they seem to have no dealer network and no prices are mentioned.

Irving M Fried was part of the original research group at Radford. The Radford TL quickly became the IMF monitor, and was produced by IMF UK. The BBC had some and developed it own legendary Monitor TLs. The principals involved were Jim Rogers, of Rogers electronics, Raymond Cooke of KEF and the electronics were designed and provided by Peter Walker of Quad.

These monitors were dismantled about five or six years ago. Now I see from the website that they are back in the active TL business with their PMC active monitors.

I'm wondering how much the BBC research team have been involved in PMC designs, at least by heritage, my suspicions are quite a lot.

It will be interesting to see if PMC can capture a significant and profitable share of the North American market.

Do they have a presence in Norway yet?
 

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