Please help with AV receiver purchase

67-79

67-79

Audioholic Intern
What latest amp, which post?
Hi Peng, the latest amp I saw at amazon is the stereo car amplifier pyramid pb3818 that is 3000 watts and cost only 104$

https://www.amazon.ca/Pyramid-PB3818-Channel-Bridgeable-Amplifier/dp/B004M9A0M8

Im also planning to match it up to a powerful JBL gto 939 speakers pair 6' x 9' available for 82$ .

I plan to buy that in some months when I gonna find a powerful 12 volt charger and sealed car battery, that should cost few. Stay tune...
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Hi Peng, the latest amp I saw at amazon is the stereo car amplifier pyramid pb3818 that is 3000 watts and cost only 104$

https://www.amazon.ca/Pyramid-PB3818-Channel-Bridgeable-Amplifier/dp/B004M9A0M8

Im also planning to match it up to a powerful JBL gto 939 speakers pair 6' x 9' available for 82$ .

I plan to buy that in some months when I gonna find a powerful 12 volt charger and sealed car battery, that should cost few. Stay tune...
Thanks, I am not familiar with car amps.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Thanks, I am not familiar with car amps.
He needs to absolutely forget car amps for home use. In fact nothing from car audio transmutes to home audio. Not amps, head units, or speaker drivers.

This 67-69 bloke is barking up the wrong tree!
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
He needs to absolutely forget car amps for home use. In fact nothing from car audio transmutes to home audio. Not amps, head units, or speaker drivers.

This 67-69 bloke is barking up the wrong tree!
I do know one thing, those big and heavy Model 19 deserves a high quality amp. A 200 to 300 W amp in the $1200 (e.g. Monolith 2X) to $3000 range would be good.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I do know one thing, those big and heavy Model 19 deserves a high quality amp. A 200 to 300 W amp in the $1200 (e.g. Monolith 2X) to $3000 range would be good.
Why would you require such a high price/wattage amp? Is the spec deceiving? Something your 4400 isn't capable of?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Why would you require such a high price/wattage amp? Is the spec deceiving? Something your 4400 isn't capable of?
Of course, but he mentioned he listened to maximum SPL when alone, and 132 dB!! See post 38. His speakers can handle a maximum of 350 W for short duration, and 65 W for extended period.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Of course, but he mentioned he listened to maximum SPL when alone, and 132 dB!! See post 38. His speakers can handle a maximum of 350 W for short duration, and 65 W for extended period.
I just wouldn't encourage such high db/deafening sessions offhand but I see your point now :) At that point tho may as well use the car amps and converter....
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I just wouldn't encourage such high db/deafening sessions offhand but I see your point now :) At that point tho may as well use the car amps and converter....
You are right.

@67-79, even 90 dB can be harmful if you are exposed to such level for long. So to play it safe, use the calculator I linked in post 39, to figure out how much power you need.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I do know one thing, those big and heavy Model 19 deserves a high quality amp. A 200 to 300 W amp in the $1200 (e.g. Monolith 2X) to $3000 range would be good.
No they don't. Those Altec 19 speakers were designed long before super amps. They are deafening with a 10 +10 watt tube amp.

There is one thing your calculator is not allowing for and that is the fact that these speakers are highly directional, so you get one Hell of an earful. So far more of the output ends ups in your lap so to speak and less in the room as a whole than speakers of our time.

The horns on those speakers are the same as the horns in the Altec Voice of the Theater speakers. Those speakers filled cinemas that were bigger than now with 10 + 10 watt tube amps, because that was all they had.

I strongly suspect that something is faulty with his set up. If that rig was working correctly, there is no way you could stay in the same room with those speakers and cause his unit to shut down.

I remember there was a big event in St Paul's cathedral in London before the super amp age. The outfit called in could not fill the space. So Donald Chave CEO of Lowther was called in and filled the place comfortably with four very high efficiency 6" full range horn loaded drivers, powered by a total of 40 watts Lowther tube amp, amplification! Yes, Lowther made amps and speakers back then.

My father clearly remembered that episode. In my home parish of the English Martyr's Strood UK, the 1963 Church designed by a close friend of my father's who was a fellow officer with him out in India in WW II had a very difficult acoustic that defied the pros to install a PA system that was any use.



Well it also defied me. This is the interior.



Now although built not that long ago in 1963, this building is listed. In the UK this means it is considered of special architectural merit and significance. There are very, very few listed buildings from that period. Anyhow you are very limited as to how you can alter a listed building in any way. You can't hang big ugly speakers. After failures of the pros, I designed some slim column speakers for the two columns either side of the sanctuary. This was a total failure.

After this and other failures, my father in his eighties designed and built those square looking speakers you see at the ends of the arch over the sanctuary. There is one 6" high efficiency paper coned Lowther full range driver in each. He built front loaded horns. What you see is the mouth covered with the light grey speaker cloth. The horn is quite long, but you don't see that unless you are underneath or behind them. The back of the drivers are open and exposed and not enclosed. When I asked my father how he worked out the dimensions of the horn, his answer was: - "It looked about right!" Anyhow it was totally successful and fills the place with sound driven by a small solid state mono PA amp! I have played quite a bit of choral music on them and they sound surprisingly good. However the main point is that these speakers were the first to let you actually hear the celebrant and readers, in that very difficult acoustic space.

Horns are just not like other speakers and seem to me not to have read the rule book!
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
No they don't. Those Altec 19 speakers were designed long before super amps. They are deafening with a 10 +10 watt tube amp.

There is one thing your calculator is not allowing for and that is the fact that these speakers are highly directional, so you get one Hell of an earful. So far more of the output ends ups in your lap so to speak and less in the room as a whole than speakers of our time.

The horns on those speakers are the same as the horns in the Altec Voice of the Theater speakers. Those speakers filled cinemas that were bigger than now with 10 + 10 watt tube amps, because that was all they had.

I strongly suspect that something is faulty with his set up. If that rig was working correctly, there is no way you could stay in the same room with those speakers and cause his unit to shut down.

I remember there was a big event in St Paul's cathedral in London before the super amp age. The outfit called in could not fill the space. So Donald Chave CEO of Lowther was called in and filled the place comfortably with four very high efficiency 6" full range horn loaded drivers, powered by a total of 40 watts Lowther tube amp, amplification! Yes, Lowther made amps and speakers back then.

My father clearly remembered that episode. In my home parish of the English Martyr's Strood UK, the 1963 Church designed by a close friend of my father's who was a fellow officer with him out in India in WW II had a very difficult acoustic that defied the pros to install a PA system that was any use.



Well it also defied me. This is the interior.



Now although built not that long ago in 1963, this building is listed. In the UK this means it is considered of special architectural merit and significance. There are very, very few listed buildings from that period. Anyhow you are very limited as to how you can alter a listed building in any way. You can't hang big ugly speakers. After failures of the pros, I designed some slim column speakers for the two columns either side of the sanctuary. This was a total failure.

After this and other failures, my father in his eighties designed and built those square looking speakers you see at the ends of the arch over the sanctuary. There is one 6" high efficiency paper coned Lowther full range driver in each. He built front loaded horns. What you see is the mouth covered with the light grey speaker cloth. The horn is quite long, but you don't see that unless you are underneath or behind them. The back of the drivers are open and exposed and not enclosed. When I asked my father how he worked out the dimensions of the horn, his answer was: - "It looked about right!" Anyhow it was totally successful and fills the place with sound driven by a small solid state mono PA amp! I have played quite a bit of choral music on them and they sound surprisingly good. However the main point is that these speakers were the first to let you actually hear the celebrant and readers, in that very difficult acoustic space.

Horns are just not like other speakers and seem to me not to have read the rule book!
Wow, that's a lot to read. I did ask him about room dimensions and sitting distance. He didn't provide the info, but that probably wouldn't matter much with those speakers, based on what you are alluding to.
 
67-79

67-79

Audioholic Intern
Wow, that's a lot to read. I did ask him about room dimensions and sitting distance. He didn't provide the info, but that probably wouldn't matter much with those speakers, based on what you are alluding to.
The room is about a basic basement typical room with a 7 feets ceiling. Nothing is installed yet, there is already a old sound system. I ordered yesterday a jbl car speaker pair 6 x 9 stadium gto 930 pro ( 120 $ canadian at amazon.ca ) for future use. Im still looking at the stereo sound system scene, speakers, amps and head units. I discovered many well recorded music files that need to be played at max level and the old sound system cannot keep-up. The room is close to neibors unfortunately and they never said if they like or not Grateful dead.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
The volume control isn't doing what you're assuming it's doing. Your avr is also only rated at 90wpc at 8 ohm (2ch driven, 20-20,000 hz, .09% THD) per the manual, altho the difference between 90 wpc and 135 wpc is only 1.8dB; the power rating could be higher at 4 ohm or 6 ohm but isn't specified. The volume control position isn't relevant to the percentage of power (it could be much less than half power with the volume control at a half way position, or it could be at full stretch depending on source/level). Sony doesn't use a calibrated dB scale like some avrs, so hard to be specific or compare to other units at all.

The wattage really doesn't matter with such efficient/sensitive speakers, tho the impedance swings could be important (your speakers are rated nominal 8 ohm but could swing as low as 4 ohm at parts of the frequency range, too). You might need a beefier amp if low impedance is at play...that Sony likely isn't very capable at 4 ohms. Double check your connections, too.
In a recent past, I owned Altec speakers with the same drivers as those used in the Model 19 system, and I can ascertain that the impedance of the 416-8 woofers never goes down below 5.5 ohms at any frequency. The OP doesn't need amps that are necessarily rated for a 4 ohm load.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
In a recent past, I owned Altec speakers with the same drivers as those used in the Model 19 system, and I can ascertain that the impedance of the 416-8 woofers never goes down below 5.5 ohms at any frequency. The OP doesn't need amps that are necessarily rated for a 4 ohm load.
Even easier to find something to drive them then. I was just thinking more along a worse case scenario....but he has a really easy to drive to deafness scenario!
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Even easier to find something to drive them then. I was just thinking more along a worse case scenario....but he has a really easy to drive to deafness scenario!
You are absolutely correct. Those speakers are the easiest of loads. They had to be then, as there was still a lot of tube gear around. You can NOT drive speakers with huge impedance swings with tube amps, as if you do the speaker's response will follow the speaker's impedance curve. Remember the first reliable and successful solid state amp did not appear until 1969, and that was the Quad 303 45 watts per channel.

Back in the sixties Raymond Cooke founder of KEF designed impedance compensated crossover networks for KEF speakers. I think that was a big reason for his success.

We easily forget the way things were.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
You are absolutely correct. Those speakers are the easiest of loads. They had to be then, as there was still a lot of tube gear around. You can NOT drive speakers with huge impedance swings with tube amps, as if you do the speaker's response will follow the speaker's impedance curve. Remember the first reliable and successful solid state amp did not appear until 1969, and that was the Quad 303 45 watts per channel.

Back in the sixties Raymond Cooke founder of KEF designed impedance compensated crossover networks for KEF speakers. I think that was a big reason for his success.

We easily forget the way things were.
Well, I'm not quite that old :) My dad even had solid state gear.
 
67-79

67-79

Audioholic Intern
I think that the latest bunch of digital stereos car amplifiers and speakers and head units are better and at a cheaper price than ever before. Last year I tough that computer powered speakers were the best combo you can buy and I ended up buying a edifier set s350db at 250$ that play right in a medium room. But for fun 2 months ago, I was boring myself to the maximum of possibilities and I started looking for fun at car audio, and now im sure that for a few small hundred dollars you can get a way better sound system and more powerful . It is just the more's law of diminushing industry costs for manufacturers and distribution costs for online vendors that scientifically optimized the online buying problem. now you can buy one amps and speaker pairs for 230$ for a big room far away from disturbing neighbors or just turn the volume at 1 out of 15 approx and listen tv news in your parent basement room. Anyway it is not urgent if you don't organize a 75 peoples party next week as a simple 100$ computer set of powered speakers can play enouph for a single night listening session if your alone or still play enouph for a big party.
 
Last edited:
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I think that the latest bunch of digital stereos car amplifiers and speakers and head units are better and at a cheaper price than ever before. Last year I tough that computer powered speakers were the best combo you can buy and I ended up buying a edifier set s350db at 250$ that play right in a medium room. But for fun 2 months ago, I was boring myself to the maximum of possibilities and I started looking for fun at car audio, and now im sure that for a few small hundred dollars you can get a way better sound system and more powerful . It is just the more's law of diminushing industry costs for manufacturers and distribution costs for online vendors that scientifically optimized the online buying problem. now you can buy one amps and speaker pairs for 230$ for a big room far away from disturbing neighbors or just turn the volume at 1 out of 15 approx and listen tv news in your parent basement room. Anyway it is not urgent if you don't organize a 75 peoples party next week as a simple 100$ computer set of powered speakers can play enouph for a single night listening session if your alone or still play enouph for a big party.
If you want to post about car audio equipment go on a car audio forum. This is not a car forum. Car and domestic audio equipment has major differences in many aspects. Car audio equipment is just unsuited for use in the home, so please stop banging on about it.
 
67-79

67-79

Audioholic Intern
Folks, these days we are only taken care by Microsoft and google and facebook. These chaps only impose to all society cold hard publicity, everything else is throw to garbage, and I guess they all bought for themselves the Walmart special publicised yesterday: a pioneer car audio head unit with 2 (6' x 9') and 2 6.5 inchs speakers set for 123$. Just write car audio bundle or car stereo bundle on your search engine and you will discover that you can buy a powerful sound system perfectly suited for home and cars. The trick is to have a lot of real life experience with pink Floyd and Madonna music that I hear everywhere since the last 30 years and you will discover them in a new way .. All the time I went to audio conventions, I'd carried pink Floyd records and It was not playing well, a lot worst than the systems im talking about.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Folks, these days we are only taken care by Microsoft and google and facebook. These chaps only impose to all society cold hard publicity, everything else is throw to garbage, and I guess they all bought for themselves the Walmart special publicised yesterday: a pioneer car audio head unit with 2 (6' x 9') and 2 6.5 inchs speakers set for 123$. Just write car audio bundle or car stereo bundle on your search engine and you will discover that you can buy a powerful sound system perfectly suited for home and cars. The trick is to have a lot of real life experience with pink Floyd and Madonna music that I hear everywhere since the last 30 years and you will discover them in a new way .. All the time I went to audio conventions, I carried pink Floyd records and I was not playing well, a lot worst than the system im talking about.
Unlikely the car system will be suitable for home. Power supply and intended room size for starters....
 
67-79

67-79

Audioholic Intern
Unlikely the car system will be suitable for home. Power supply and intended room size for starters....
All that cost only between 100 $ , to up to 350$ approx, so no need to panic, LOL. Every consumer can pay that cash and try the experiment. Just buy a 12 volts power supply and install that at home. Car electronics are more compact and are build to play loud with few un-needed parts. Home electronics and studios electronics are overbuild so they can charge a 5 x premium and it play worst. Pyle audio can surely build a tv satellite next year for only 10 000$, that maybe they will sell at amazon.com.
 

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