Playing SACD on UBP-X700

[sotob]

Hi Everyone,

I just loaded a Rolling Stones SACD into a new Sony UBP-X700 within my 5.1 setup. The screen on the TV says 44.1 kHz/ 16 bit. Since this is a SACD I was thinking it should say 2.8224 MHz.

I've read the manual for the x700 to be able to play SACD and tried different SACD, but it still says 44.1 kHz/ 16 bit for the resolution?

Any ideas for a fix?

Thanks

 

[lovinthehd]

You are connected via hdmi? I see in the manual on page 22 you have a setting of DSD auto or off, what did you set? On page 24 you have to set music settings between cd/sacd (and also to designate DSD 2ch or multich). Is the Rolling Stones 2ch or multich?

 

[j_garcia]

Default option may be CD rather than SACD (MC or 2CH) as noted. Pretty sure most devices will not display the bitrate for SACD, just whether it is DSD or PCM.

 

[lovinthehd]

Default option may be CD rather than SACD (MC or 2CH) as noted. Pretty sure most devices will not display the bitrate for SACD, just whether it is DSD or PCM.

Made me curious. My Sony S5100 playing a multich SACD just indicates on screen that its multich DSD. When I check the avr (an Onkyo) for audio info it does indicate dsd but 44.1 khz, no bit rate. Odd.

My Oppo via info button will show 2.8Mhz/2.8Mbps/1 bit, but the Denon avr on info only shows dsd 3/2/.1

 

[TLS Guy]

The key question is what is the player connected to and can the connected device decode DSD? A lot of receivers can not decode DSD. Now if you set the output from HDMI to auto, then your player will send DSD over HDMI only if the receiving device can decode DSD. If the receiving device can not, and many if not most can not, then the player decodes the DSD and sends it as PCM over HDMI.

So the key question is the spec of the receiving device.

 

[j_garcia]

Made me curious. My Sony S5100 playing a multich SACD just indicates on screen that its multich DSD. When I check the avr (an Onkyo) for audio info it does indicate dsd but 44.1 khz, no bit rate. Odd.

My Oppo via info button will show 2.8Mhz/2.8Mbps/1 bit, but the Denon avr on info only shows dsd 3/2/.1

Along with what TLS mentioned, the player will know and display what it is reading from the disc, but the receiving device usually won't get all that info. It will know what the stream is, but maybe not all the details.

 

[lovinthehd]

Along with what TLS mentioned, the player will know and display what it is reading from the disc, but the receiving device usually won't get all that info. It will know what the stream is, but maybe not all the details.

Why would it display 44.1khz tho? It just doesn't have the ability to display 2.8mhz so displays 44.1khz?

 

[Verdinut]

IMO, if it displays 44.1 kHz, it's playing the CD layer.

 

[lovinthehd]

IMO, if it displays 44.1 kHz, it's playing the CD layer.

Not in my case, it was playing multich layer and displaying dsd as well. Just the Onkyo avr showed the 44.1khz thing. Don't know about the OP, tho.

 

[Verdinut]

Not in my case, it was playing multich layer and displaying dsd as well. Just the Onkyo avr showed the 44.1khz thing. Don't know about the OP, tho.

But while your player displayed multich and DSD, I'm sure it did not display 44.1 kHz at the same time, right?

 

[lovinthehd]

But while your player displayed multich and DSD, I'm sure it did not display 44.1 kHz at the same time, right?

Yes, the avr (dsd capable) in info audio mode did show 44.1khz, yet confirmed dsd input and multich as well, which makes me think the 44.1 was just something defaulting when it had no other way of displaying info.

 

[sotob]

It's connected to a Marantz receiver nr1608 via HDMI. The Stones disc is 2 ch. So odd, but I walked away from it and came back and hour later and tried again. It this time the tv screen said "DSD 2 ch 2.8Mhz/1 bit. I let it play for a while and eject the disc and hit play again it said 44.1 kHz/ 16 bit again!! I cant' wrap my head around this. Overall I think something is finicky whether the disc or the Sony UBP-X700. I'll keep messing around with it.

Thanks for your replies

Overall I did not hear a difference between the Sacd layer or the redbook layer sadly.

 

[lovinthehd]

SACD layer and redbook CD layer may simply be different mix/masters. Make sure what the player vs avr is diplaying, too.

 

[TLS Guy]

It's connected to a Marantz receiver nr1608 via HDMI. The Stones disc is 2 ch. So odd, but I walked away from it and came back and hour later and tried again. It this time the tv screen said "DSD 2 ch 2.8Mhz/1 bit. I let it play for a while and eject the disc and hit play again it said 44.1 kHz/ 16 bit again!! I cant' wrap my head around this. Overall I think something is finicky whether the disc or the Sony UBP-X700. I'll keep messing around with it.

Thanks for your replies

Overall I did not hear a difference between the Sacd layer or the redbook layer sadly.

Well you would not hear a difference. Both CD and SACD (DSD) cover the bottom and lower limits of human hearing. If you had very wide dynamic range material you might, and I say might, hear a difference on very wide dynamic range material. That would not be that disc. So really the only advantage is to play multichannel material. However multichannel PCM, like BD is actually a better bet. This awkward DSD system was introduced because of digiphobia of a bunch of loony audiophools. That thought that the quatitization error of PCM was an issue. It isn't, and is covered by dithering which sets the S/N dynamic range limit of any given bit rate. So the result would be just as good with a PCM at slightly higher bit rate.

In fact I don't think anybody mixes in DSD anymore. It is too much trouble. I think BIS were the last to do so, but no longer do. So they work in PCM and convert to DSD after mastering as a cynical placation of the audiophools. DSD should die and the sooner the better. It is, was, and will be a total nonsense.

 

[j_garcia]

It's connected to a Marantz receiver nr1608 via HDMI. The Stones disc is 2 ch. So odd, but I walked away from it and came back and hour later and tried again. It this time the tv screen said "DSD 2 ch 2.8Mhz/1 bit. I let it play for a while and eject the disc and hit play again it said 44.1 kHz/ 16 bit again!! I cant' wrap my head around this. Overall I think something is finicky whether the disc or the Sony UBP-X700. I'll keep messing around with it.

Thanks for your replies

Overall I did not hear a difference between the Sacd layer or the redbook layer sadly.

That depends on the disc. Often the CD layer wiil be a down conversion of the SACD remaster, which basically means they're so similar you may not notice the difference. In some cases the master quality wasn't so great, so the end result is the two sound the same because you can't make it sound better than it was recorded essentially. For some tracks/albums where the master was very good quality and the album was released years ago with older technology, today's tech can preserve more of the quality from the master.

To what TLS is saying, if they just put the same effort into the CD mastering, I don't think 2ch SACD would be necessary because you CAN get incredible amounts of detail even on CD. Where I enjoy SACD though, is with a well done multichannel disc.

The thing about SACD is, not every disc is great. Some just released something to say they released an SACD and those lazy efforts are usually not worth it. if you want to listen to the best discs, you're likely to have to hunt for them and at this point, likely pay a premium for them since the format is all but dead.

 

[Verdinut]

Good SACD Jazz discs have been released by the Scottish firm, Linn Records, which is among the UK disc manufacturers with Chandos (Classical) to produce about the best recordings available today. Another firm with a few very well recorded SACD Jazz discs is Concord.

Linn is the company which also manufactures expensive audio equipment. At one time, they were building tube SACD players that were selling IIRC for around $25,000.

 

[PENG]

It's connected to a Marantz receiver nr1608 via HDMI. The Stones disc is 2 ch. So odd, but I walked away from it and came back and hour later and tried again. It this time the tv screen said "DSD 2 ch 2.8Mhz/1 bit. I let it play for a while and eject the disc and hit play again it said 44.1 kHz/ 16 bit again!! I cant' wrap my head around this. Overall I think something is finicky whether the disc or the Sony UBP-X700. I'll keep messing around with it.

I read the owner's manual and found that the NR1608 supports playing back DSD 2.8/5.6 MHz files saved on a PC or NAS or USB memory device but not SACD, not in DSD direct mode. I don't know what you meant by "the tv screen said "DSD 2 ch 2.8 MHz/1 bit....". Perhaps it tried for a short while, couldn't do it and switched to PCM.

The lowest/oldest 2018 D&M models that support Super audio playback via HDMI in DSD direct seem to be the AVR-X3200W and SR6010.

 

[lovinthehd]

Wonder why it would restrict DSD files to the usb input?

 

[TLS Guy]

I read the owner's manual and found that the NR1608 supports playing back DSD 2.8/5.6 MHz files saved on a PC or NAS or USB memory device but not SACD, not in DSD direct mode. I don't know what you meant by "the tv screen said "DSD 2 ch 2.8 MHz/1 bit....". Perhaps it tried for a short while, couldn't do it and switched to PCM.

The lowest/oldest 2018 D&M models that support Super audio playback via HDMI in DSD direct seem to be the AVR-X3200W and SR6010.

DSD playback from disc is not mentioned in the spec sheet. So that receiver does not play an SACD in DSD. In 2 channel I suspect it just plays the CD layer. For multichannel there must be a conversion to PCM. I suspect this is done in the player. If he is getting 44.1 in won't matter whether he listens to the DSD layer or the CD layer for 2 channel as long as the mix is the same. DSD should have never seen the light of day. 2 and multi channel should have always been PCM based.

 

[PENG]

Wonder why it would restrict DSD files to the usb input?

I am not sure. The DACs in the newer receivers can handle dsd direct. It probably is related to HDMI and the DSPs.

Even you AVR-4520, and my AV8801 have the same limitations. My cheap AVR-X4400H can do it though.