Parasound A51 vs Anthem MCA 525 Gen 2

[lovinthehd]

A simple frequency measurement will not tell you much about how the speaker sounds, let alone that it sounds just like another based on such (but the measurements I doubt would be identical either). Sometimes you can fix with eq, but better to start with a speaker you won't need to....

If a speaker is naturally fatiguing by nature and design (the Klipsch RF-7 III's come to mind, seemed to have lots of bass and highs but no mids) then can EQ'ing adjust for this? I guess you can make the highs softer but will that work to reduce ear fatigue?

Also if you've got 2 speakers that measure 100% the same on a graph, but they've both been made by 2 different speaker manufacturer, and different design philosophy, such as 2 way vs 3 way and dome tweeter vs ribbon tweeter vs compression driver, will they still sound the same to the ear due the matching measurements even though different build design?

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[PENG]

Yeah but, does that mean the MCA is better then?

Hard to say, I can think of the following spec highlights for comparison, and you'll be the judge:

A51 has better numbers in the following:

• THX Ultra2 certified
• 2.2 kVA encapsulated toroid power transformer with independent
  secondary windings for each channel
• High bias Class A/AB operation
• 164,000 μF power supply filter capacitance
• Slew rate: 130 V/µsecond
• input impedance 47 k Ω unbalanced; 94 k Ω balanced
• ACD 250 W/400 W, 8/4 Ohms, 0.2% THD at full power
• Damping factor: 1100 at 20 Hz

MCA525 has better numbers in the following:

• 600 W rated into 2 Ohms at <1% THD
• SNR, IEC-A, ref. 225 W . . . . . . .120 dB Vs A51's 112 dB IHF A-weighted (Note: no idea what IHF is, probably an old standard, so this may be be an apples to apples comparison).

Note1: A51 offers no 2 Ohm rating, though the slightly more powerful two channel version, the A21+, measured 620 W at 1% THD, both channels driven, and into 2 Ohm, 900 W with one channel driven.

Note2: The MCA525 specs did not include any ACD output rating, or its there and somehow I missed, may be @lovinthehd can help fill in the blank again.

MCA 525 has worse numbers in the following:

• Slew rate: 30 V/µsecond
• <1% THD at rated output
• Channel separation, 100 Hz to 10 kHz >65 dB Vs A51's Inter channel Crosstalk > 78 dB at 1 kHz > 63 dB at 20 kHz so I would say the A51's a lot better based on the typical shapes of XT vs freq., that the MCA's would likely be a few dB worse at 20 kHz. Both, based on specs are no better than the AVR-X3700H, SR6014, and much worse than the X3600H measured by ASR, but I guess only golden ears know the difference in use.
• Input impedance 10 k Ω unbalanced; 15 k Ω balanced
• Damping factor: 300, 20-1,000 Hz (Note: 300 should be more than high enough)

I would say the A51's specs would impress audiophiles more, whereas for practical use, the MCA525 is probably better because of the much lighter weight.

To me, it would be a tough call, good thing I already have a MCA and Halo amp, albeit the older two channel version (MCA20 and A21).

 

[lovinthehd]

Hard to say, I can think of the following spec highlights for comparison, and you'll be the judge:

A51 has better numbers in the following:

• THX Ultra2 certified
• 2.2 kVA encapsulated toroid power transformer with independent
  secondary windings for each channel
• High bias Class A/AB operation
• 164,000 μF power supply filter capacitance
• Slew rate: 130 V/µsecond
• input impedance 47 k Ω unbalanced; 94 k Ω balanced
• ACD 250 W/400 W, 8/4 Ohms, 0.2% THD at full power
• Damping factor: 1100 at 20 Hz

MCA525 has better numbers in the following:

• 600 W rated into 2 Ohms at <1% THD
• SNR, IEC-A, ref. 225 W . . . . . . .120 dB Vs A51's 112 dB IHF A-weighted (Note: no idea what IHF is, probably an old standard, so this may be be an apples to apples comparison).

Note1: A51 offers no 2 Ohm rating, though the slightly more powerful two channel version, the A21+, measured 620 W at 1% THD, both channels driven, and into 2 Ohm, 900 W with one channel driven.

Note2: The MCA525 specs did not include any ACD output rating, or its there and somehow I missed, may be @lovinthehd can help fill in the blank again.

MCA 525 has worse numbers in the following:

• Slew rate: 30 V/µsecond
• <1% THD at rated output
• Channel separation, 100 Hz to 10 kHz >65 dB Vs A51's Inter channel Crosstalk > 78 dB at 1 kHz > 63 dB at 20 kHz so I would say the A51's a lot better based on the typical shapes of XT vs freq., that the MCA's would likely be a few dB worse at 20 kHz. Both, based on specs are no better than the AVR-X3700H, SR6014, and much worse than the X3600H measured by ASR, but I guess only golden ears know the difference in use.
• Input impedance 10 k Ω unbalanced; 15 k Ω balanced
• Damping factor: 300, 20-1,000 Hz (Note: 300 should be more than high enough)

I would say the A51's specs would impress audiophiles more, whereas for practical use, the MCA525 is probably better because of the much lighter weight.

To me, it would be a tough call, good thing I already have a MCA and Halo amp, albeit the older two channel version (MCA20 and A21).

Nah, I got nothing after your coverage! I say just keep what he's got more because he's already got it and it's more than sufficient in any case. Neither brand gets me excited, tho.

 

[RickyG512]

Ah man Peng, major thanks for a detailed replied, that must of taken you a while to type up and research, I would buy you a drink if I could.

How about another contender:

The Anthem P5 vs Parasound A51?


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[PENG]

Ah man Peng, major thanks for a detailed replied, that must of taken you a while to type up and research, I would buy you a drink if I could.

How about another contender:

The Anthem P5 vs Parasound A51?


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If you need the power, and want to stick with class AB then of course the P5 is Anthem's flagship power amps, more comparable to Parasound's JC Monoblocks and is well above the A51 in terms of specs and build quality.

If I don't need the extra 2dB or so of power output then, I'll take the MCA525 or Halo A51 (or wait for the A51+). At 130 pounds weigh and takes up two dedicated 15 A outlet, I don't see the point. If you really need that much power, class D amps will be your friends, look to Hypex, Purifi etc. Again, the likes of P5 are real deals when it comes to high current, but they are electronic dinosaurs.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

At 130 pounds weigh and takes up two dedicated 15 A outlet, I don't see the point. If you really need that much power, class D amps will be your friends, look to Hypex, Purifi etc. Again, the likes of P5 are real deals when it comes to high current, but they are electronic dinosaurs.

Yeah the future is high quality class-D like the ATI AT525NC (200x5) and others.

 

[TankTop5]

Yeah the future is high quality class-D like the ATI AT525NC (200x5) and others.

What’s weird is the ATI amp and the Monoprice amps have the exact same specs... except the Monoprice is half the price... weird!!!!

 

[highfigh]

If a speaker is naturally fatiguing by nature and design (the Klipsch RF-7 III's come to mind, seemed to have lots of bass and highs but no mids) then can EQ'ing adjust for this? I guess you can make the highs softer but will that work to reduce ear fatigue?

Also if you've got 2 speakers that measure 100% the same on a graph, but they've both been made by 2 different speaker manufacturer, and different design philosophy, such as 2 way vs 3 way and dome tweeter vs ribbon tweeter vs compression driver, will they still sound the same to the ear due the matching measurements even though different build design?

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Some tweeters are hard to take for long periods- it may be an inherent flaw, might be bad crossover design, etc. When JBL came out with their Titanium domes in the late-'80s, I couldn't take it. A few years later, I heard the MB Quart titanium tweeters for car stereo and I liked those but when I would hear JBL Ti tweeters, I still didn't like them, so it's not as simple as saying that my hearing changed. I like textile domes and some ribbons, although I admit that I haven't listened to many different speakers lately.

I need to admit that my deleted comment about compression tweeters was based on this type-

I went to a car audio shop yesterday and saw one of these in the display case and I can't imagine being in a car with them.

 

[highfigh]

Yeah the future is high quality class-D like the ATI AT525NC (200x5) and others.

If an amplifier needs two dedicated outlets, why would they not just use one 240VAC circuit?

I guess that removes it as a candidate for a house powered by solar panels, eh?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If an amplifier needs two dedicated outlets, why would they not just use one 240VAC circuit?

I guess that removes it as a candidate for a house powered by solar panels, eh?

ATI offers both 15A/120V and 20A/240V power cords as options. But yeah, most people will get the 15A/120V option.

 

[Erod]

This would be a really dumb purchase.

However, I totally get it because many of us are all fascinated with buying new amplifiers. I suffer from that affliction as well.

So no, it won't sound better but do what you want!

 

[Rip City Dave]

Go with the Anthem and sell me the Parasound. I'll give you fifty bucks. What is your PayPal address?

 

[perryleros]

What did you end up doing?
Trying to decide between the two myself.
Auditioned the mca 525 gen2 with Klipsch Rf7 iii and seemed extremely harsh at moderate volumes.

This goes against everything I read about this amp. Weird.

Really nice at low volumes though. Tight bass and detailed.

 

[lovinthehd]

What did you end up doing?
Trying to decide between the two myself.
Auditioned the mca 525 gen2 with Klipsch Rf7 iii and seemed extremely harsh at moderate volumes.

This goes against everything I read about this amp. Weird.

Really nice at low volumes though. Tight bass and detailed.

Why do you think it was the amp particularly? Did you test those same speakers with other electronics that time? I'm not a particular fan of the Klipsch myself, but sounds a bit much even for them, particularly at moderate spl.

 

[perryleros]

Why do you think it was the amp particularly? Did you test those same speakers with other electronics that time? I'm not a particular fan of the Klipsch myself, but sounds a bit much even for them, particularly at moderate spl.

I initially had a Denon x8500HA with a Parasound A31 and decided to downsize my components (physical dimensions) so tried the following:

Denon x8500HA + MCA 525 gen 2 ---> Extremely Harsh right off the bat.
Anthem avm70 + MCA 525 gen 2 ---> A bit smoother but still harsh
Anthem avm90 + MCA 525 gen 2 ---> More bearable but still could not listen to an entire song before having to turn the volume down. Same for movies and series. Kept turning the volume down when something was happening in the show/movie due to harshness.

Tried playing with the ARC curve a lot, applying tilt, EQing the highs down but it seemed that it's just the nature of the amp. Extremely detailed and seemed thin and harsh compared to the Parasound A31.

I thought it could be the RF7 iii but also tried a pair of KEF R3 with the same results.

With the A31 I used to watch at reference levels, some times above reference. Same for music occasionally.

 

[lovinthehd]

I initially had a Denon x8500HA with a Parasound A31 and decided to downsize my components (physical dimensions) so tried the following:

Denon x8500HA + MCA 525 gen 2 ---> Extremely Harsh right off the bat.
Anthem avm70 + MCA 525 gen 2 ---> A bit smoother but still harsh
Anthem avm90 + MCA 525 gen 2 ---> More bearable but still could not listen to an entire song before having to turn the volume down. Same for movies and series. Kept turning the volume down when something was happening in the show/movie due to harshness.

Tried playing with the ARC curve a lot, applying tilt, EQing the highs down but it seemed that it's just the nature of the amp. Extremely detailed and seemed thin and harsh compared to the Parasound A31.

I thought it could be the RF7 iii but also tried a pair of KEF R3 with the same results.

With the A31 I used to watch at reference levels, some times above reference. Same for music occasionally.

Sounds very strange for all that harshness you're experiencing.....what doesn't sound harsh particularly?

I've never had a "harsh" amp at all, I don't find such differences among my several different amps nor with using others.

 

[perryleros]

Sounds very strange for all that harshness you're experiencing.....what doesn't sound harsh particularly?

I've never had a "harsh" amp at all, I don't find such differences among my several different amps nor with using others.

It's specifically the higher frequencies.

Sounds very strange for all that harshness you're experiencing.....what doesn't sound harsh particularly?

I've never had a "harsh" amp at all, I don't find such differences among my several different amps nor with using others.

Maybe its just not a good pair for Klipsch speakers and/or I am over-sensitive or something.

 

[lovinthehd]

It's specifically the higher frequencies.


Maybe its just not a good pair for Klipsch speakers and/or I am over-sensitive or something.

I meant more what gear do you not find harsh particularly? I've never noticed anything that needed "pairing" particularly outside of typical things (impedance needs, power needs, sufficient sensitivity for your pre-amp).

 

[perryleros]

I meant more what gear do you not find harsh particularly? I've never noticed anything that needed "pairing" particularly outside of typical things (impedance needs, power needs, sufficient sensitivity for your pre-amp).

Parasound amplifiers are the nicest and also emotiva xpa3 was ok, not harsh.
I am wondering if maybe I tried a bad sample of the Anthem. Or maybe its time for me to change speakers

 

[lovinthehd]

Parasound amplifiers are the nicest and also emotiva xpa3 was ok, not harsh.
I am wondering if maybe I tried a bad sample of the Anthem. Or maybe its time for me to change speakers

Or perhaps simply your testing methods. You doing any blind level matched listening tests? Speakers are the general way to improve audio, not the electronics, though.

ps you've used what other brands of amp besides Parasound and Anthem and Emotiva?