Paradigm Premier 800F 25% off

V

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic General
Ouch! $300!
I thought you had returned them when an open box 9.2 showed up on the Accessories4Less website for $1300.
The Accessories4less return policy makes you think about how badly you want to do a return. It's my fault for not contemplating what happens if they did not fit my taste. The glowing reviews drove me to to push the buy button and I just purchased a lesson in return policy reading too. :D

If I really hated the Vento Reference 9.2 I would have returned them. They have amazing bass for such a small speaker and extended treble. They're just a little harsh compared to what I'm use to. By placing them up 7 feet as High's they don't face directly at the good seats but they add another interesting layer of sound with those aluminum tweeters. The Denon 4500 lets me turn them on or off as taste desires with a button on the remote and lately they have been on more than off.

I really want to try a pair of Martin Logan ESL X in my home. So with this lesson in hand I'll probably use Best Buy or Crutchfield just in case I need to do a return. Thanks for all your help exposing me to other speaker options. Blessings.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
That and SVS probably sells well over 10 subs for each sub Rythmik sells!
Still Rythmik B-stock is almost mythical in its rarity!

What does Hsu do with their returns? I don't think I have ever seen a Hsu B-stock! How can this be???
Hsu sells their returns and B-stock through their clearance page. Most of the stuff that hits that page doesn't tend to last long though. My guess is that Hsu doesn't see as many returns as SVS for the reason described above, that when you have to pay for shipping, there is a disincentive to return the product.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Hsu sells their returns and B-stock through their clearance page. Most of the stuff that hits that page doesn't tend to last long though. My guess is that Hsu doesn't see as many returns as SVS for the reason described above, that when you have to pay for shipping, there is a disincentive to return the product.
Ha!
I've never seen that page before!
 
V

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic General
Hsu sells their returns and B-stock through their clearance page. Most of the stuff that hits that page doesn't tend to last long though. My guess is that Hsu doesn't see as many returns as SVS for the reason described above, that when you have to pay for shipping, there is a disincentive to return the product.
I received the HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP Sub last week. It's beautiful. Once it arrived, I look at the box and it says use two guys to lift. But as usual I found a way to move it to the basement myself. My wife came out and saw me on the stairs man handling the huge 100lb box and asked why do you have your bike helmet on? My response, "Just in case moving this downstairs by myself doesn't go as planned." :D

Once the box was downstairs moved by dolly and unwrapped the smooth satin black finish on the sub is awesome. Hooked it up following the directions and used Audyssey to EQ the system then switched the sub back to setting 2 with both ports open. It really adds powerful bass and a great look. Can't see anyone wanting to return this work of art! Thanks for the recommendation on this quality product Shadyj.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
I received the HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP Sub last week. It's beautiful. Once it arrived, I look at the box and it says use two guys to lift. But as usual I found a way to move it to the basement myself. My wife came out and saw me on the stairs man handling the huge 100lb box and asked why do you have your bike helmet on? My response, "Just in case moving this downstairs by myself doesn't go as planned." :D

Once the box was downstairs moved by dolly and unwrapped the smooth satin black finish on the sub is awesome. Hooked it up following the directions and used Audyssey to EQ the system then switched the sub back to setting 2 with both ports open. It really adds powerful bass and a great look. Can't see anyone wanting to return this work of art! Thanks for the recommendation on this quality product Shadyj.
Glad to hear it is working out for you. Actually the VTF-3 mk5 is pretty easy to manage physically compared to many of the other subs in its performance class, and that is one of the things I really like about it. I think this is an underrated attribute among speakers and subs. This is also something I really like about the SVS PB-3000. It is very beneficial to be able to move a sub around easily since that makes it easy to try different placements in-room, and subwoofer placement has such a big effect on the sound. When a sub becomes daunting to just move around, you are less likely to deal with moving it, and that can prevent it from reaching its potential.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Once the box was downstairs moved by dolly and unwrapped the smooth satin black finish on the sub is awesome. Hooked it up following the directions and used Audyssey to EQ the system then switched the sub back to setting 2 with both ports open. It really adds powerful bass and a great look. Can't see anyone wanting to return this work of art! Thanks for the recommendation on this quality product Shadyj.
So you EQ'ed the system with one setting (on the sub) then after Audyssey was done you changed the sub setting?
Was this recommended in the manual or elsewhere? Generally, I would think you would want Audyssey to optimize for the bass response/conditions you will actually use.
But at the end of the day, as long as it sounds good to you, that is a win!
 
V

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic General
So you EQ'ed the system with one setting (on the sub) then after Audyssey was done you changed the sub setting?
Was this recommended in the manual or elsewhere? Generally, I would think you would want Audyssey to optimize for the bass response/conditions you will actually use.
But at the end of the day, as long as it sounds good to you, that is a win!
Yes, that does sound a little strange if you didn't read the HSU manual. The manual explains how to use setting #1 with Audyssey and then change it to the setting you want after the EQ. Apparently, the initial setting is the flatest and by doing it this way Audyssey has less of an opportunity to try to reEQ the HSU Sub.
 
V

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic General
This is also something I really like about the SVS PB-3000. It is very beneficial to be able to move a sub around easily since that makes it easy to try different placements in-room, and subwoofer placement has such a big effect on the sound. When a sub becomes daunting to just move around, you are less likely to deal with moving it, and that can prevent it from reaching its potential.
The SVS PB-3000 is almost double the price of the HSU VTF-3 mk5. Does it sound better than two HSU VTF-3 mk5 subs? Thanks!
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
The SVS PB-3000 is almost double the price of the HSU VTF-3 mk5. Does it sound better than two HSU VTF-3 mk5 subs? Thanks!
I think they are probably close in performance, but the PB-3000 is not almost double the cost. The VTF-3 mk5 is basically a $900 sub, and if you get the extended warranty that matches SVS's standard warranty, it is closer to $1k. The PB-3000 still costs more but you do get the SVS Subwoofer control app which is a lot more control over the sub then the VTF-3's panel controls.
 
V

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic General
HSU VTF-3 mk5 $769 + 96 shipping = $865 delivered (Fathers/Memorial Day Price)

SVS PB-3000 = $1516 delivered (based on putting it in my cart)

I'm sure the SVS PB-3000 is an awesome subwoofer with extra remote control features. And yet, I'm very satisfied with the HSU VTF-3 mk5 for $651 less. :cool:

 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
HSU VTF-3 mk5 $769 + 96 shipping = $865 delivered (Fathers/Memorial Day Price)

SVS PB-3000 = $1516 delivered (based on putting it in my cart)

I'm sure the SVS PB-3000 is an awesome subwoofer with extra remote control features. And yet, I'm very satisfied with the HSU VTF-3 mk5 for $651 less. :cool:

I don't know how you are getting a $1516 price for the PB-3000 unless you have to pay sales tax on that one but not the Hsu?
 
V

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic General
I don't know how you are getting a $1516 price for the PB-3000 unless you have to pay sales tax on that one but not the Hsu?
That is correct. Put it in your cart and you see the totals.
 
T

Tachead7075

Audioholic
The 600C is basically the 500C but with passive radiators. It's similar but will have deeper and more powerful bass.
Not quite. The 600C also has 6.5" woofers vs 5.5" on the 500C. It will play about 13Hz lower and will have much more impact and power handling.

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk
 
S

Syed Nizamudeen

Audiophyte
Hi People,

I own a pair of Paradigm Premier 800F and the Premier 600C for Center and using the NHT SuperZero 2.1's for main surrounds and using a pair of SVS PB-1000 to handle the bass duty.

The speakers are driven by Marantz SR 7013 AV Receiver.

I'm really happy with the setup for both music and movies. ( I had Paradigm Monitor 9 V7 + Monitor Center 3 V7 before the Premiers and the improvement is very substantial).

My room is slightly less than a medium sized room (approx 3300 cu ft - closed bedroom). I'm very much content with the volume levels for both music and movies. Only for movies, I bump up to - 8db to - 5db levels and it feels 7013 does enough justice.

I wish to add 2 pairs of SuperZero 2.1's to the ceiling for the 5.1.4 Atmos configuration.

So, if I add 4 more speakers to the chain, does the AVR's amp performance get affected??

My maximum number of channels would be 9 and don't want anything more than that.

Will adding an external amplifier like the Emotiva XPA - 5 to drive the LCR and main surrounds (5 ch) and driving the atmos speakers by the AVR bring an improvement in dynamic swings and sound better at higher volumes (-8 to - 5db) I. E close to reference better??

Or should I go the separates way like Marantz AV770x + Emotiva Xpa - 9.???

I know the Paradigm Premiers are really very efficient and do stepping up in electronics bring a substantial difference or should just add additional 4 speakers to chain and just enjoy as it is??
 
V

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic General
Will adding an external amplifier like the Emotiva XPA - 5 to drive the LCR and main surrounds (5 ch) and driving the atmos speakers by the AVR bring an improvement in dynamic swings and sound better at higher volumes (-8 to - 5db) I. E close to reference better??
The external amplifier will help reduce the load on the Marantz SR 7013. But the best way to reduce heat is with these fans:


In most cases, you will not notice much difference with the external amp(s) except at extreme volume levels. I have the Denon 4700 and use it in preamp mode with a 5 channel (Adcom) and a 7 channel (Monolith X7). While I went this route, it adds quite a bit of expense and increases energy usage for not as much difference in sound as you might think.

I would suggest getting the fans and try using your speakers on the AVR. It may work well for you? The other direction of adding external amps and maybe even moving all speakers off the AVR is expensive and most likely will not provide as large a difference as you are expecting?

It's a journey that many have tried....
 
S

Syed Nizamudeen

Audiophyte
The external amplifier will help reduce the load on the Marantz SR 7013. But the best way to reduce heat is with these fans:


In most cases, you will not notice much difference with the external amp(s) except at extreme volume levels. I have the Denon 4700 and use it in preamp mode with a 5 channel (Adcom) and a 7 channel (Monolith X7). While I went this route, it adds quite a bit of expense and increases energy usage for not as much difference in sound as you might think.

I would suggest getting the fans and try using your speakers on the AVR. It may work well for you? The other direction of adding external amps and maybe even moving all speakers off the AVR is expensive and most likely will not provide as large a difference as you are expecting?

It's a journey that many have tried....
Thanks for your valuable feedback.. I'll see if the additional 4 speakers really tax the AVR's amp, if it does, I'll consider getting the external amp for the ground channels and use the AVR for the heights. (7013 doesn't have a preamp mode though).

But, I'm very much satisfied with my setup for 5 channels. It's immersive and provides a faux height information with certain content as well.
 
K

Kleinst

Full Audioholic
I agree, but it still costs them, just keep an eye on B-stock inventory at SVS. I figure they are almost all customer returns. Also PSA discontinued their risk free returns - my speculation is people might buy one of their subs and a Hsu sub (as an example) in the end they decided either would do the job great, but the PSA sub could return at no cost while the Hsu cost round trip shipping. So which gets returned? You just cost PSA $200-$300 and all they got out of it was a devalued product (NIB converted to open box)!
I don't know what percent of sales get returned, but companies like SVS and Crutchfield have a pretty good idea and incorporate that cost in their business model.
Just to cover the spectrum (low volume extreme), consider if Dennis did that with Philharmonic Audio! It would be such a wild card of uncertainty for such a low volume operator that it would be a truly reckless move!

A lot of times I will respond to a post and suggest SVS as a more expensive product (as a general rule), but worthwhile if the buyer wants the reassurance of a free trial should they return it. In a way, they have chosen to cater to the most cautious among us! Their return policy and overall customer service certainly appeal to that aspect of our psyche!
You say they are gambling on not having to take many back, which is true. But the other way to look at it is they believe the assurance of a no-risk in-home trial will result in more units being sold despite it not being the highest value product!

I would love to know the rate of customer returns for these companies!
Brings up something i was thinking lately as I generally feel bad returning something as I just returned a Klipsch Center to Adorama. Went well. But should we be empowered to think nothing of buying to try something out and have no problems returning if it isn't perfect? This really is somewhat a cost of doing business for an ecommerce retailer and encourages people to try (In B&M world we really wouldn't think as much taking it back to a Best Buy or a Walmart, there is not real personal connection there). Yet for these companies it almost feels like your screwing them. But I don't that's fair either? Do you all feel we should feel empowered to buy and try and think nothing of returning? If so, it makes me feel a bit better about doing it. Also knowing more than half the time I'll just keep what I bought.
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
IMO to buy from a company like HSU, Ascend Acoustics, RSL, PSA, and even SVS just to "buy and try" without intent on keeping is a Scumbag thing to do.
Their return policies are for Consumer Peace of Mind. Not to be abused.
 
K

Kleinst

Full Audioholic
IMO to buy from a company like HSU, Ascend Acoustics, RSL, PSA, and even SVS just to "buy and try" without intent on keeping is a Scumbag thing to do.
Their return policies are for Consumer Peace of Mind. Not to be abused.
I don't think the intent is abuse. But without being able to hear in a brick & morter environment, sometimes you need to see if it's better than what you have in your house. That said, my guess is more often than not people really like it and want to keep it. That's what I've done.
 

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