Paradigm Premier 800F 25% off

VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic
Who would you suggest I contact at Paradigm? I complained to Quivers and they said lots of customers are being turned away by their order verification process.

Quivers said the order was cancelled as my phone was not the same as on the credit card. That's FALSE, I only have one phone. They said the IP was not near my address that's FALSE. They said my IP is an anonymous proxy. That's crazy. I just get what the cable company provides. :D

If Paradigm wants to lose customers unnecessarily, continue charging customers and then cancel the orders. If the company think's the order is fraudulent why not call the customer and verify they are real. I did that many times in computer sales. Frauds typically don't answer the phone and they aren't good at providing verification data.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Who would you suggest I contact at Paradigm? I complained to Quivers and they said lots of customers are being turned away by their order verification process.

Quivers said the order was cancelled as my phone was not the same as on the credit card. That's FALSE, I only have one phone. They said the IP was not near my address that's FALSE. They said my IP is an anonymous proxy. That's crazy. I just get what the cable company provides. :D

If Paradigm wants to lose customers unnecessarily, continue charging customers and then cancel the orders. If the company think's the order is fraudulent why not call the customer and verify they are real. I did that many times in computer sales. Frauds typically don't answer the phone and they aren't good at providing verification data.
I will make some inquiries to get you in touch with the right parties to resolve this situation.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
That's a pretty horrible experience @VMPS-TIII ! Hope you get it worked out soon. Hopefully your credit card company is helping you out in the meantime.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Who would you suggest I contact at Paradigm? I complained to Quivers and they said lots of customers are being turned away by their order verification process.

Quivers said the order was cancelled as my phone was not the same as on the credit card. That's FALSE, I only have one phone. They said the IP was not near my address that's FALSE. They said my IP is an anonymous proxy. That's crazy. I just get what the cable company provides. :D

If Paradigm wants to lose customers unnecessarily, continue charging customers and then cancel the orders. If the company think's the order is fraudulent why not call the customer and verify they are real. I did that many times in computer sales. Frauds typically don't answer the phone and they aren't good at providing verification data.
Kudos to you for follow-thru!
It is a trend for companies to let companies that specialize in warehousing and shipping (including the software/systems to track everything), but businesses have to realize the importance of it being SOP to check the pulse of operations on an on-going basis!
 
K

keepr88

Audioholic Intern
Safeandsoundhq.com has the same sale on the 800fs if you havent decided to get something else. After this post im not ordering direct from paradigm when i get mine. Good luck man.

 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic
I am sure the Sierra 2 is very good. If you are not looking to blow the doors off the hinges, consider the BMR Philharmonitor from Salk. One of the best bookshelf speakers that you can buy out there at any price. I you want a floor-standing speaker with a bit more SPL capability, look at a pair of Revel F36s. They also target a neutral response curve and should have similar tonality to the 800Fs. The new Polk Legend speakers are quite good, and that center channel is excellent, although a bit expensive. RBH has some SV-61R speakers left in stock, those are quite good, although somewhat insensitive. It looks to me like RBH is discontinuing that series. Outlaw has great MTM in the LCRv2, and that speaker deserves more attention than it has received. There are lots of great options out there, I could go on. I bet you that new THX tower from Monoprice will be killer, and that is expected to be available soon.
Thank you for the great recommendations. Have you ever tried the ElectroMotion ESL or the ElectroMotion ESL X?
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Thank you for the great recommendations. Have you ever tried the ElectroMotion ESL or the ElectroMotion ESL X?
I have heard a bunch of MartinLogan's curved electrostat panels speakers but I don't remember which models (I do remember the Neoliths). They all sounded fine to me, but I didn't give them a really close listening. The measurements for those electrostat speakers are a bit strange, but I don't think they can be fairly measured like normal loudspeakers.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
Thank you for the great recommendations. Have you ever tried the ElectroMotion ESL or the ElectroMotion ESL X?
Just remember with electrostatic speakers or dipole, you need the right room. They need to be away from the sides and front wall 4 to 5' to allow for proper imaging.
 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic
James asked the Paradigm sales rep to call me but I never heard from him. However, the credit card company was able to remove the two $1600 Paradigm charges on my card. I'm glad I realized how bad customer support is at Paradigm before I became an owner. Thank you James for trying to help. I've crossed Paradigm off my list of reputable companies.

Now its time to look closer at those RAAL 140-15d tweeters. Has anyone tried the Dipole version or heard them installed in a set of speakers? They are considerably more than the original 140-15d version. Is the difference worth it? Thanks!
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Now its time to look closer at those RAAL 140-15d tweeters. Has anyone tried the Dipole version or heard them installed in a set of speakers? They are considerably more than the original 140-15d version. Is the difference worth it? Thanks!
Is this a typo? Did they change tjhe part, but not the part number?

Thanks for following up! You definitely should not have to go through your credit card company to get your money back.
I hope Paradigm fixes this before they piss off too many and have to close the doors!
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Now its time to look closer at those RAAL 140-15d tweeters. Has anyone tried the Dipole version or heard them installed in a set of speakers? They are considerably more than the original 140-15d version. Is the difference worth it? Thanks!
Sorry I couldn't be of more help. As for the RAAL tweeter, if it were me I wouldn't be looking at any one tweeter but rather overall system performance. Ribbon tweeters are risky to use in a two-way design. They are better left to three-way designs, although they can be made to work in two-way designs. The advantage of the RAAL tweeter is the very even and wide dispersion all the way out to upper treble. A dipole version of that kind of tweeter may defeat the point of that kind of dispersion pattern.
 
Gmoney

Gmoney

Audioholic Field Marshall
I found trying to buy from Paradigm is an amazingly poor customer experience. I placed the order on Friday, they charge my credit card, then send me an email days later that says, "We were not able to complete your order at this time due to a processing failure with your payment information. Your order has been cancelled and any charges to your account will be fully refunded."

This looks like a scam. How could they not process the order if they expect to process a refund? In the background a company named Quivers is running the sales operation. You have no phone for Quivers so you call Paradigm and they tell you they know nothing and can't help. Once you get the phone number from Paradigm for Quivers, you call them and they tell you they don't know why the order was cancelled, the card was charged. They send an email to Paradigm to ask why and email you later. Meanwhile, Quivers sounds like it's in India. When you get the email from Quivers, they tell you the grey wood grain models are on back order and you should place another order for the gloss black finish. Once you do that, they have now charged your card twice with assurance they will refund the 1st order. You ask why they can't just use the 1st payment and they say that's not possible.

Basically, I can't recommend buying thru Paradigm after my experience. I am watching for delivery of the black units with an eye on the refund for the 1st pair. I'll have to file a dispute with the credit card on the cancelled order if the refund does not appear. I would have given up on this already but James seems to think the 800F is a good speaker.

Hopefully, your experience will be better than mine. If I had a company that ran this way - I'd be out of business in a few months.
I had a Very similar situation with RBH, The mistake I made was speaking with their Marketing manager. I do believe if I had Not Spoken with him it Probably would've turned out different. Lesson learned as everyone knows about Marketing peeps their Interest is the bottom line of the company and Not the customer. It's why they are in Marketing in the first place and Not in the service or even the owner or even a Technician. My Experience with RBH wasn't a good one to Say the least. Was it a good Product that I Purchased yes it was, was my Product defective, in every way a First time customer wouldn't want to go though.
 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic
I had a Very similar situation with RBH, The mistake I made was speaking with their Marketing manager.
I was credit card ambushed by Paradigm and the company they hire to process orders. They cancelled my order and said it was fraudulent. Dumb as a rock they are. :cool: :D

They then told me to order again and I was stupid enough to believe them. They racked up $3300 in charges on my credit card and NEVER shipped anything. Luckily, my bank removed all their fraudulent activity.

After that I bought a center channel from Monoprice - no problem.
Bought CANTON Vento Reference 9.2 DC from Accessories for Less.
Bought VTF-3 Sub from HSU.
All of these orders were handled professionally and arrived in good shape.

Paradigm is losing sales and customer satisfaction for their poor customer service with initial sales. The Paradigm order processor I talked to said it happens every day. ShadyJ even talked to their sales manager about helping me. The Paradigm sales manager told ShadyJ my purchase was fraudulent and NEVER made any attempt to call me.

Companies that don't care about customers or their internal mistakes eventually pay the price. :rolleyes:
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I was credit card ambushed by Paradigm and the company they hire to process orders. They cancelled my order and said it was fraudulent. Dumb as a rock they are. :cool: :D

They then told me to order again and I was stupid enough to believe them. They racked up $3300 in charges on my credit card and NEVER shipped anything. Luckily, my bank removed all their fraudulent activity.

After that I bought a center channel from Monoprice - no problem.
Bought CANTON Vento Reference 9.2 DC from Accessories for Less.
Bought VTF-3 Sub from HSU.
All of these orders were handled professionally and arrived in good shape.

Paradigm is losing sales and customer satisfaction for their poor customer service with initial sales. The Paradigm order processor I talked to said it happens every day. ShadyJ even talked to their sales manager about helping me. The Paradigm sales manager told ShadyJ my purchase was fraudulent and NEVER made any attempt to call me.

Companies that don't care about customers or their internal mistakes eventually pay the price. :rolleyes:
I may be mixing people up, but didn't you dislike/return the Canton Vento Reference 9.2's?
I'm curious how that went and what you out of pocket cost was.
Accessories4Less has always been a straight-forward company to deal with, but their return policy is not the least expensive (which is kind of expected given their pricing)!
 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic
I may be mixing people up, but didn't you dislike/return the Canton Vento Reference 9.2's?
I'm curious how that went and what you out of pocket cost was.
Accessories4Less has always been a straight-forward company to deal with, but their return policy is not the least expensive (which is kind of expected given their pricing)!
Accessories4Less quoted 10% return fee plus $67 for shipping them to me originally. Plus, I would have to pay $70 more to ship them back. It would have cost almost $300 to return. So I kept trying them in different configurations to see if I could find a way to use them. I ended up mounting them on top of the 7' SuperTower III speakers as my front highs. They're starting to grow on me. :D

I love the way Denon 4500 lets me turn front Highs on or off with touch of a button. It made it easy to hear the difference with and without them. They add a new dimension to the top of the sound stage.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Accessories4Less quoted 10% return fee plus $67 for shipping them to me originally. Plus, I would have to pay $70 more to ship them back. It would have cost almost $300 to return. So I kept trying them in different configurations to see if I could find a way to use them. I ended up mounting them on top of the 7' SuperTower III speakers as my front highs. They're starting to grow on me. :D

I love the way Denon 4500 lets me turn front Highs on or off with touch of a button. It made it easy to hear the difference with and without them. They add a new dimension to the top of the sound stage.
Ouch! $300!
I thought you had returned them when an open box 9.2 showed up on the Accessories4Less website for $1300.
On the one hand, $300 seems unfair, but if you look at the numbers from their side, I guess that is about right because $137 of that is shipping and A4L only ends up with $150 (I assume they were $1500 when you bought them). Since they are selling open box for $1299, they end up taking a $50 loss!
It really makes you appreciate the cost that companies like SVS assume with their 45 day risk-free returns (or Crutchfield, who only charged me $10 to return the Elac DBR-62's I recently tried-they paid shipping). These larger companies must have pretty high volume and net profit to foot the bill for returns like that.
If we look at trying a less expensive speaker, like the (best price I have seen) $600/pr Canton Vento 6" bookshelf, the restocking fee is only $60 (40% of what it was for the Reference 9.2) but you still end up paying 100% of round trip shipping would not be much less, so you'd probably be out about $175 out of pocket, which is better than $300, but still a lot.
Unfortunately, buying unknown speakers from A4L is a gamble. Several have loved them, but "buyer beware"!

I hope some day to be able to compare the Reference 9.2 to the plain Vento to see what audible differences there are!

In the mean time, I hope these speakers continue to grow on you!
 
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slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Spartan
Ouch! $300!
I thought you had returned them when an open box 9.2 showed up on the Accessories4Less website for $1300.
On the one hand, $300 seems unfair, but if you look at the numbers from their side, I guess that is about right because $137 of that is shipping and A4L only ends up with $150 (I assume they were $1500 when you bought them). Since they are selling open box for $1299, they end up taking a $50 loss!
It really makes you appreciate the cost that companies like SVS assume with their 45 day risk-free returns (or Crutchfield, who only charged me $10 to return the Elac DBR-62's I recently tried-they paid shipping). These larger companies must have pretty high volume and net profit to foot the bill for returns like that.
If we look at trying a less expensive speaker, like the (best price I have seen) $600/pr Canton Vento 6" bookshelf, the restocking fee is only $60 (40% of what it was for the Reference 9.2) but you still end up paying 100% of round trip shipping would not be much less, so you'd probably be out about $175 out of pocket, which is better than $300, but still a lot.
Unfortunately, buying unknown speakers from A4L is a gamble. Several have loved them, but "buyer beware"!

I hope some day to be able to compare the Reference 9.2 to the plain Vento to see what audible differences there are!

In the mean time, I hope these speakers continue to grow on you!
I think the business decision is more along the lines of, "most people are likely to keep these speakers once they are in-hand", so the companies that pay shipping both ways are making the gamble that they won't be taking many back.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I think the business decision is more along the lines of, "most people are likely to keep these speakers once they are in-hand", so the companies that pay shipping both ways are making the gamble that they won't be taking many back.
I agree, but it still costs them, just keep an eye on B-stock inventory at SVS. I figure they are almost all customer returns. Also PSA discontinued their risk free returns - my speculation is people might buy one of their subs and a Hsu sub (as an example) in the end they decided either would do the job great, but the PSA sub could return at no cost while the Hsu cost round trip shipping. So which gets returned? You just cost PSA $200-$300 and all they got out of it was a devalued product (NIB converted to open box)!
I don't know what percent of sales get returned, but companies like SVS and Crutchfield have a pretty good idea and incorporate that cost in their business model.
Just to cover the spectrum (low volume extreme), consider if Dennis did that with Philharmonic Audio! It would be such a wild card of uncertainty for such a low volume operator that it would be a truly reckless move!

A lot of times I will respond to a post and suggest SVS as a more expensive product (as a general rule), but worthwhile if the buyer wants the reassurance of a free trial should they return it. In a way, they have chosen to cater to the most cautious among us! Their return policy and overall customer service certainly appeal to that aspect of our psyche!
You say they are gambling on not having to take many back, which is true. But the other way to look at it is they believe the assurance of a no-risk in-home trial will result in more units being sold despite it not being the highest value product!

I would love to know the rate of customer returns for these companies!
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Spartan
I agree, but it still costs them, just keep an eye on B-stock inventory at SVS. I figure they are almost all customer returns. Also PSA discontinued their risk free returns - my speculation is people might buy one of their subs and a Hsu sub (as an example) in the end they decided either would do the job great, but the PSA sub could return at no cost while the Hsu cost round trip shipping. So which gets returned? You just cost PSA $200-$300 and all they got out of it was a devalued product (NIB converted to open box)!
I don't know what percent of sales get returned, but companies like SVS and Crutchfield have a pretty good idea and incorporate that cost in their business model.
Just to cover the spectrum (low volume extreme), consider if Dennis did that with Philharmonic Audio! It would be such a wild card of uncertainty for such a low volume operator that it would be a truly reckless move!

A lot of times I will respond to a post and suggest SVS as a more expensive product (as a general rule), but worthwhile if the buyer wants the reassurance of a free trial should they return it. In a way, they have chosen to cater to the most cautious among us! Their return policy and overall customer service certainly appeal to that aspect of our psyche!
You say they are gambling on not having to take many back, which is true. But the other way to look at it is they believe the assurance of a no-risk in-home trial will result in more units being sold despite it not being the highest value product!

I would love to know the rate of customer returns for these companies!
But, but, but......

No overhead for a retail showroom!

It's just a different business model, and can give a competitive advantage.

You do make a good point about A/B comparisons, then sending the one back with the more generous return policy.

I'm sure you have noticed, the Rythmik does not have near the Clearance/Outlet/B-stock volume as SVS. I'm guessing this may be attributed to a less generous policy.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
You do make a good point about A/B comparisons, then sending the one back with the more generous return policy.

I'm sure you have noticed, the Rythmik does not have near the Clearance/Outlet/B-stock volume as SVS. I'm guessing this may be attributed to a less generous policy.
That and SVS probably sells well over 10 subs for each sub Rythmik sells!
Still Rythmik B-stock is almost mythical in its rarity!

What does Hsu do with their returns? I don't think I have ever seen a Hsu B-stock! How can this be???
 

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