Optoma $199 PT100 PlayTime LED Projector Preview

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Audioholics Robot
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Optoma is introducing the PT100, the first of its new LED-based PlayTime products designed to introduce a new audience to the advantages of projectors. The PT100, offering simple operation and enough power to deliver images up to 100" in size, and is compatible with most video gaming consoles, DVD players, set top boxes, as well as with computers sporting a VGA output. Compact and weighing only 1.7 lbs., the PT100 will be available for Christmas holiday sales and have an end-user price of $199.


Discuss "Optoma $199 PT100 PlayTime LED Projector Preview" here. Read the article.
 
jeffsg4mac

jeffsg4mac

Republican Poster Boy
I could see this in a kids bedroom with a 50 to 60 inch retractable screen for games and movies. My son would love it. Heck, it cost less than the 22in flat screen I bought him.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
No. Not until they get these things with at least a few more lumens behind them. These microprojectors are a toy, at best.

Except for one: The Samsung F10M. That's a 1,000 lumen LED powered XGA projector.

I wish Samsung would throw a 720p and a 1080p chip with that light engine to really set the LED driven light source on fire.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Samsung-F10M.htm

It's just ridiculous to spend $200 on a projector with 10-100 lumens which can't do anything with any light in the room at all and typically has a very low resolution with poor quality.

In 5 years, I believe that LED will be close to the standard for home theater projection, I just wish that they would stop being so darn cheap with what they are delivering and actually put up some home theater products that are more in the $1,000-$2,000 range.
 
jeffsg4mac

jeffsg4mac

Republican Poster Boy
No. Not until they get these things with at least a few more lumens behind them. These microprojectors are a toy, at best.

Except for one: The Samsung F10M. That's a 1,000 lumen LED powered XGA projector.

I wish Samsung would throw a 720p and a 1080p chip with that light engine to really set the LED driven light source on fire.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Samsung-F10M.htm

It's just ridiculous to spend $200 on a projector with 10-100 lumens which can't do anything with any light in the room at all and typically has a very low resolution with poor quality.

In 5 years, I believe that LED will be close to the standard for home theater projection, I just wish that they would stop being so darn cheap with what they are delivering and actually put up some home theater products that are more in the $1,000-$2,000 range.
I didn't look at the specs and realize they were that bad. That is pretty pitiful.
 
just-some-guy

just-some-guy

Audioholic Field Marshall
people are going to buy that, thinking it will work like a real projector.
have a look at what it really does, and say projectors suck.

though it could be usefull for a dorm throwing a 40"picture in a dark room.
or a highly mobil person.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
I can only say that I saw the Samsung, and it is dope, dope, dope!

I would be thrilled, beyond words, if they would release a DLP version of the F10M with a 720p and/or 1080p chip in it. At $1,000-$2,000 they would sell like crazy if they kept the offset down to just a few inches and had halfway decent zoom range.
 
I

InTheIndustry

Senior Audioholic
No. Not until they get these things with at least a few more lumens behind them. These microprojectors are a toy, at best.

Except for one: The Samsung F10M. That's a 1,000 lumen LED powered XGA projector.

I wish Samsung would throw a 720p and a 1080p chip with that light engine to really set the LED driven light source on fire.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Samsung-F10M.htm

It's just ridiculous to spend $200 on a projector with 10-100 lumens which can't do anything with any light in the room at all and typically has a very low resolution with poor quality.

In 5 years, I believe that LED will be close to the standard for home theater projection, I just wish that they would stop being so darn cheap with what they are delivering and actually put up some home theater products that are more in the $1,000-$2,000 range.
$1000 - $2000? That's still dirt cheap for a good projector. That's the price of an entry to mid-level TV these days. I think it will be a little while before LED comes into the bargain basement sales range in a quality product. I would think that price range would be a manufacturer's target for late adoptors and web purchasing end users. A recycled model or loss-leader by most acounts.

LED, 4K video, OLED, 3D without glasses. The video market is going to start making some noise over the next few years, that's for sure!
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
$1000 - $2000? That's still dirt cheap for a good projector.
Most people who have seen the AE4000 and the Epson 8500UB agree that a good projector is $2,000. It's also a very magical price which a ton of people can afford.

Considering the F10M is about $1,300 with a 1,000 lumen LED engine, there is no excuse for there NOT being 720p/1080p at the $2,000 price point. But, we don't even see it at the $5,000 price point yet. It's ridiculous. Just like car makers being unable to deliver 50mpg cars. Their bread and butter comes from selling us lamps, and they are in no rush to replace it.

Samsung has put the proof out there that LED is not significantly more expensive, so it's ridiculous to not expect it.

I think it will be a little while before LED comes into the bargain basement sales range in a quality product. I would think that price range would be a manufacturer's target for late adoptors and web purchasing end users. A recycled model or loss-leader by most acounts.
Not sure where you have been but $1,000 to $2,000 is the mainstream price for home theater projectors in the industry. The AE4000 easily being the most popular out there. For years, $2,000 has been a magical price point, and it is pushing downwards closer to $1,000 for a lot of people. So, a $2,000 LED offerring, especially in light of the Samsung, is not only perfectly realistic, it is very much expectable.

Yes! The tech exists, it's not crazy expensive, it looks stunning.

No! No sources, no content, no demand except by the foolish who buy into resolution as being important. 1080p on a 32" display from 12'... Pointless and dumb!

Sony has dumped it, and moved on. LED is as thin as OLED was dreamed of. Talk about a loss leader. OLED may stay as a vaporware product forever. I like the concept though.

3D without glasses
Nope. Autosteroscopic displays are lousy to abysmal - and worse. Don't count on that tech for 5-10 years - and I would expect that to be expensive in flat panels. Darn near impossible for projection.

The video market is going to start making some noise over the next few years, that's for sure!
You have a lot of confidence that I don't see out there. 3D has been the tech for 2 years now, and is FINALLY starting to actually appear. LED is showing up in these stupid toy products, but when Samsung actually has a real projector, at a decent price, it doesn't get the props it deserves for truly raising the bar.

I don't expect much in displays in the next couple of years except in 3D capability. I only hope LED will be a part of the path that projection companies follow.
 
I

InTheIndustry

Senior Audioholic
Most people who have seen the AE4000 and the Epson 8500UB agree that a good projector is $2,000. It's also a very magical price which a ton of people can afford.
There are entry level TVs from "off" brands that sell more than the nicer Sonys, for example. I would not qualify Vizio TVs as a quality display across the board yet they sell more than any other brand. Why? Because they are cheap and at the flat panel display market is at the bottom of the market curve at this point. Just because someone can afford it, doesn't make it better or a high quality product. Translation: Making LEDs cheap doesn’t mean they’re able to make them perform very well.

Considering the F10M is about $1,300 with a 1,000 lumen LED engine, there is no excuse for there NOT being 720p/1080p at the $2,000 price point. But, we don't even see it at the $5,000 price point yet. It's ridiculous. Just like car makers being unable to deliver 50mpg cars. Their bread and butter comes from selling us lamps, and they are in no rush to replace it.
The plastic cased projectors from Epson & Panasonic offer nice BIG screens for people who used to not be able to afford it. They are excellent projectors. However, I would not classify them as ground breaking or top-tier pieces for new technology to be introduced to the public. LED technology is not a be all/end all. It's not very bright at all (a HUGE downside to most projectors in that price point) and still suffers from some coloring issues that other technologies do not. Yes, the F10M is 1000 Lumens, but the contrast ratio is 2000:1. That was unacceptable in a home theater in 2006, let alone in 2010.

True, the lamps last much much longer. But if companies make their money on replacing the lamps in the cheap projectors, why on Earth would they put out a cheap, high performing product that doesn't need a lamp replaced for several years? What sense does that make from a business perspective? Hang-n'-bang A/V installers will be making more by shooting a few screws into a mount & plugging the projector in than the guys who own the factory making the thing. It's not realistic to expect that to happen with new technology... At least from a business sense.

Samsung has put the proof out there that LED is not significantly more expensive, so it's ridiculous to not expect it.
Look at the specs on those products. Lower than dirt performance. The two Samsungs on their website offer a 20"-80" image size with 170 max light output. I'd hate to see that on an 80" picture with even a candle lit in the room. It's not ready. A lot of engineering is going to be needed to get that to work and perform in most people's homes. That engineering is going to be paid for by early adopters over several years and it will slowly trickle down to the entry level market.


Not sure where you have been but $1,000 to $2,000 is the mainstream price for home theater projectors in the industry. The AE4000 easily being the most popular out there. For years, $2,000 has been a magical price point, and it is pushing downwards closer to $1,000 for a lot of people. So, a $2,000 LED offering, especially in light of the Samsung, is not only perfectly realistic, it is very much expectable.
Now you're getting snippy. Which is fine, but that doesn't make you 100% correct. $1000-$2000 is what the everyman tends to buy. I’ve looked at your website and realize the types of projects you do (very nice ones). You sell the Panasonic stuff & work in that price point a lot. It makes sense that you would want new tech to be put in there & that you really love the stuff. Heck, I do too! The $6000 - $10000 theater can offer an amazing experience while fitting into most people’s budgets. And sub $3000 projectors allow integrators to make good money at those system price points while still offering great value. But in no way, shape, or form is the LED tech today able to outperform the conventional lamp Panasonic and Epson pieces offered at those lower price points.

One day, sure, but I think that’s going to be a bit far off. We’ll see some of the other things I mentioned before we see LED in a Sub $3k projector I’m afraid.

Yes! The tech exists, it's not crazy expensive, it looks stunning.
At $15,000, yes it’s really good. I still like the standard DLP & LCOS pieces better, though – and they’re much cheaper. At $1300 and lower…. No, those don’t look amazing. They have serious compromises in picture quality and image processing. Here's a review of the Samsung SP-F10M. "Stunning" is not what came to my mind when reading the article: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/projectors/358462/samsung-sp-f10m

I’m not saying LED is going to be $15k forever. Or that at $15k it’s a great value (it’s not at all, IMO). I’m saying that it’s unrealistic to expect low price & performance at this stage of LEDs being used in projectors.


No! No sources, no content, no demand except by the foolish who buy into resolution as being important. 1080p on a 32" display from 12'... Pointless and dumb!
That’s a straw-man argument you’re putting up, friend. We’re talking projectors, not 32” bedroom TVs. Sony’s been working on bringing 4K video to market for several years. It’s starting to creep more and more into commercial applications. DLP was 1st used in commercial theater projectors as well before being offered at the consumer level.

Some articles here: http://hometheaterreview.com/jvc-adds-150000-4k-video-projector-to-its-lineup/ & http://hometheaterreview.com/jvc-adds-150000-4k-video-projector-to-its-lineup/ There are a lot more discussing the subject. I’m not saying the tech is needed or that it’s coming before LED in a $2000 home cinema projector. I just listed it as one of many things on the horizon to continue moving the video market forward. It certainly needs something because facebook & youtube on my client’s TVs isn’t that enthralling.

There were no sources or content for BluRay either… until someone decided to put some out there.

Sony has dumped it, and moved on. LED is as thin as OLED was dreamed of. Talk about a loss leader. OLED may stay as a vaporware product forever. I like the concept though.
This is false, friend. See the “manufacturer & commercial” uses section in the bottom of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_LED OLED is very much alive and coming around. It’s also much thinner than LED backlit TVs (the images of which I can’t stand). There's also talk of the new iPad as well as other new tablet devices being LED based.


Nope. Autosteroscopic displays are lousy to abysmal - and worse. Don't count on that tech for 5-10 years - and I would expect that to be expensive in flat panels. Darn near impossible for projection.


You have a lot of confidence that I don't see out there. 3D has been the tech for 2 years now, and is FINALLY starting to actually appear. LED is showing up in these stupid toy products, but when Samsung actually has a real projector, at a decent price, it doesn't get the props it deserves for truly raising the bar.

I don't expect much in displays in the next couple of years except in 3D capability. I only hope LED will be a part of the path that projection companies follow.
See, this is the same argument I have about LED. It’s coming; it’s just not coming performing at its best or at its best value. And I don’t count that Samsung as a serious home theater or television viewer. The Lumens are up there, but its processing is not. There’s more to it than switching out a lamp assembly. Projection Design has a LED projector for the home. Very very expensive (more than the Runco). http://www.avielo.com/products_kroma.html . Toshiba (if I recall) is supposed to have a No-Glasses Required 3D model out in time for Christmas. We’ll see how that is but I’m not holding my breath. It's notable, though, because the TV market usually gets tech before the projector market does.

In the end, I hope I’m way off base and that LED tech starts to be available in sub $10K projectors while still offering the same performance (brightness, contrast ratio, etc.). Most of the clients I deal with would spend a few $K more to not have to deal with lamps going out or longer on/off times.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Sorry, not meant to be snippy! :D I write that way a lot, so I apologize.

I usually recommend value/reliability for my client's and since most people are not in dedicated theaters, but multi-purpose rooms, the value of a $5,000+ projector won't be able to be appreciated. I do like the Sim2, DP, and PD products, but lean towards JVC RS series as a great benchmark product. Yet, at value/quality level, the AE4000 is tough to beat, and I've heard from a couple of RS owners, that if they were to buy right now, the quality difference between their RS35 (I believe) and the AE4000 is not at all worth the price difference. Granted, I haven't seen this myself to compare head to head.

Now, I liked that link you provided, because it really says what I was pointing out. The Samsung is a business class projector, which has better specifications for color and contrast than many business class projectors. The typical home theater projector is able to deliver about 300-500 lumens of output after calibration, but typically LED has the ability for the diodes to be individually calibrated to exact color specifications at the manufacturing level so little to not change in the projector settings may be necessary.

All that means is that if LED can deliver 1,000 lumens for $1,300 from a business class projector, then that same engine, within a larger home theater case, with better video processing, and a dynamic iris, combined with 1080p should be available for an additional $1,000-$2,000 realistically.

Keep in mind, I've been moderating the forums over at Projector Central for about 6 years now and when 1080p projectors came to be ($30,000 Sony?) I predicted that within 3 years they would be below $3,000, and that was dead on. I can definitely be wrong (and snippy about my predictions!), but I promise you that the reason we don't see $3,000 (and less) home theater projectors is not because it can't be done, but for the reason you said: "if companies make their money on replacing the lamps in the cheap projectors, why on Earth would they put out a cheap, high performing product that doesn't need a lamp replaced for several years?"

That's the whole reason.

Don't get me wrong, but these aren't lamps that only need to be replaced after several years, these are 50,000 products. You replace the projector. 5 hours a day = 2,000 hours a year = 25 years with a LED engine.

For pure brightness, traditional lamps will remain better indefinitely.

For economics to the consumer, lower power consumption, higher reliability, more accurate color... LED is going to become the standard in home theater. I am willing to bet money on it (not an offer ;) ), I'm that confident that this will be the case. It will be out there, we will see it in the next few years.

I think Sony is the perfect example: Their first 1080p was $30K and within a few years better 1080p was under $3K. A 90% drop in price in just a few years and 1080p as the standard instead of one make/model/manufacturer.

A few years and we will see LED as a driving standard.

For OLED, I think small dispalys will have a hook in it for quality, but I'm not convinced on larger displays. OLET (organic light emitting transitor) may be the option. But, there are competing technologies, and the economic viability of OLED is questionable, but I have hope, it does look great.

UHD displays probably will come around, but I continue to think they are pointless. Blu-ray took 10 years of development to get where it is now with about 3,000 titles and I was a huge supporter of it the whole way. 4K displays, if they come out, will upconvert Blu-ray, but we won't see them as anything approachign a mainstream product for 7-10 years minimum.

Autostereoscopic displays are not coming. As soon as you see the best one on the market, you will realize why. I've seen them, I've researched them, I've put my hands on them. They are a horrendous product. They WILL be used for advertising, because they are frickin' cool looking!

OLED, Autostereoscopic, and UHD will all be well behind LED lamp based technologies. Autostereocopic being last, OLED (large format) perhaps being a no-show, and UHD displays perhaps coming to consumers in 7-10 years.

I'm putting out my predictions, and I'm sure some are wrong. Heck, I HOPE some are wrong! But, I will say why I believe things are not what others think they are and back up why I am making my predictions.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
All that means is that if LED can deliver 1,000 lumens for $1,300 from a business class projector, then that same engine, within a larger home theater case, with better video processing, and a dynamic iris, combined with 1080p should be available for an additional $1,000-$2,000 realistically.

. . . . . . . . . . .

For pure brightness, traditional lamps will remain better indefinitely.

For economics to the consumer, lower power consumption, higher reliability, more accurate color... LED is going to become the standard in home theater. I am willing to bet money on it (not an offer ;) ), I'm that confident that this will be the case. It will be out there, we will see it in the next few years.

I think Sony is the perfect example: Their first 1080p was $30K and within a few years better 1080p was under $3K. A 90% drop in price in just a few years and 1080p as the standard instead of one make/model/manufacturer.

A few years and we will see LED as a driving standard.
OK, Nostradamus, I mean BMX, how long before an LED PJ will go for say $3.5k, with significantly better PQ than a RS1, with at least the same lumens if not more?

IOW, how long do I have to wait before I get to upgrade? :D
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
OK, Nostradamus, I mean BMX, how long before an LED PJ will go for say $3.5k, with significantly better PQ than a RS1, with at least the same lumens if not more?

IOW, how long do I have to wait before I get to upgrade? :D
I don't think we've seen significant image improvements since the RS1. Since the chip is the driving factor, it kind of falls into a different category and depends on what happens in that area. Similarly, the Pioneer Kuro is a couple of years out of production and is still the best display ever made by most accounts.

I think the chip will be a driving factor for quality, but I would bet in 2 years we will have a number of solid LED deliveries for sure.

I would bet in 3 years you could replace your JVC with a model which is at least as bright with whatever quality the newest chips offer.

DLP is one of the technologies that I believe will really be able to get a big boost out of LED due to the ability to drop the fragile color wheel in favor of the strobing capability of the LED.

I think if we don't see them, it won't be because manufacturers can't make them, but because they refuse to make them. Eventually though, there will be one or two who get on the lower end of the LED bandwagon and make a profit and those projectors will likely be in VERY high demand if they are even haflway decent. I would expect InFocus/Optoma to do something. Then, we will see everyone fall in line quickly when they realize how many sales they are losing to the better tech. Kind of like what we have seen with Samsungs slim LCD panels combined with good quality (for LCD anyway). Everyone is jumping into the 'thin' LED/LCD mold to get a piece of the action.

I'm very interested to see if we can any new deliveries this week at CEDIA. But, I'm not expecting it.
 

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