Onkyo TX-SR608 Receiver First Look

[PearlcorderS701]

The 608 is THX certified? This is a first for the 600 series...

 

[Sugarbear]

the RC260 just showed up on Onkyo's web site a day or two ago. Spec's are EXACTLY the same as the SR608 except:

* $50 (US) cheaper
* no THX certification or processing mode
* no SIRIUS port
* no VGA input

The 608 is THX certified? This is a first for the 600 series...

You're right about THX certification at the 600 level. Go Onkyo

For $50 cheaper though, at this price point, I'd be inclined to go for the RC260 if BriPhil has accurately highlighted all the differences.

 

[BriPhil]

Onkyo 608 = THX Select2+

Per Onkyo's web page on the TX-SR608:

Special Features
* Six 1080p capable HDMI inputs (V1.4a repeater) including 1 Front
* THX Select2 Plus Certification
* HDMI 1080p video upconversion by Faroudja DCDi cinema
* WRAT technology and discrete amp construction for cleaner sound
* TrueHD/DTS-HD decoding to support the latest Blu-ray technology
* PC Input
* Optional iPod Dock / HDradio module via U.Port
* 4 DSP Gaming Modes: Rock, Sports, Action, and Role Playing
* Audyssey 2EQ w/ Dynamic EQ & Dynamic Volume

(I tried to post the link, but the moderating traffic cop didn't allow it because I'm new to POSTING on this forum. You folks are undoubtedly savvy enough to go to www <dot> us <dot> onkyo <dot> com and find the link for this receiver from there.)

I ordered one from NewEgg on Saturday; per UPS package tracking, it's "out for delivery", so I should have it sometime this afternoon. I'll write back with an update once I've had a chance to play with it for a bit.

Regards,
bp

 

[Sugarbear]

Per Onkyo's web page on the TX-SR608:

Special Features
* Six 1080p capable HDMI inputs (V1.4a repeater) including 1 Front
* THX Select2 Plus Certification
* HDMI 1080p video upconversion by Faroudja DCDi cinema
* WRAT technology and discrete amp construction for cleaner sound
* TrueHD/DTS-HD decoding to support the latest Blu-ray technology
* PC Input
* Optional iPod Dock / HDradio module via U.Port
* 4 DSP Gaming Modes: Rock, Sports, Action, and Role Playing
* Audyssey 2EQ w/ Dynamic EQ & Dynamic Volume

(I tried to post the link, but the moderating traffic cop didn't allow it because I'm new to POSTING on this forum. You folks are undoubtedly savvy enough to go to www <dot> us <dot> onkyo <dot> com and find the link for this receiver from there.)

I ordered one from NewEgg on Saturday; per UPS package tracking, it's "out for delivery", so I should have it sometime this afternoon. I'll write back with an update once I've had a chance to play with it for a bit.

Regards,
bp

Congrats on your purchase! I'm still loving my 606 (while secretly, lustfully looking at some of the higher-level offerings). It's my first receiver and it's worked perfectly from day 1. You should be happy.

 

[BriPhil]

You're right about THX certification at the 600 level. Go Onkyo

For $50 cheaper though, at this price point, I'd be inclined to go for the RC260...

For whatever it's worth, that's the delta between the official MSRPs on the Onkyo web site.

In the real world, the difference as of this morning at www *dot* NewEgg *dot* com is a whopping $24.01 (RC260=$469.99, SR608=$494.00)

I don't need a Sirius port, as I have plenty of music channels available on my (AT&T U-Verse) IP-TV service.

And while it may have been really cool 8 or 10 years ago, putting a VGA input port on the back of an AV receiver in 2010 is just plain silly.

I also doubt I'd really notice a THX-related difference in my living room, so I probably would have gone with the RC260 if I'd had a choice at the time I placed my order.

Regards,
bp

 

[BriPhil]

Congrats on your purchase! I'm still loving my 606 (while secretly, lustfully looking at some of the higher-level offerings). It's my first receiver and it's worked perfectly from day 1. You should be happy.

From the spec's and the reviews, it sure seemed like it'd be a nice one. A friend of mine has had his Onkyo for about 10 years, and he really likes it.

There's one thing I've been reading that is concerning me a bit, however: Several reports say Onkyos tend to run hot.

Going by the measurements I've found, I'll have about 4 inches of clearance between the top of the receiver and the next shelf (which is empty, except for a clock).

The shelves are ventilated, and the back of that side of the cabinet will be open, but I'm wondering if I should look into getting a fan or two.

Anyone have recommendations on cooling?

 

[chas_w]

From the spec's and the reviews, it sure seemed like it'd be a nice one. A friend of mine has had his Onkyo for about 10 years, and he really likes it.

There's one thing I've been reading that is concerning me a bit, however: Several reports say Onkyos tend to run hot.

Going by the measurements I've found, I'll have about 4 inches of clearance between the top of the receiver and the next shelf (which is empty, except for a clock).

The shelves are ventilated, and the back of that side of the cabinet will be open, but I'm wondering if I should look into getting a fan or two.

Anyone have recommendations on cooling?

This German article shows a fan on the 608..not sure about the US version:
http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/2010/onkyo_tx_sr608.shtml

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Wow -- if those specs are real and true, this is very surprising from their 600 level of AVRs (that is, THX certification at this level)...what a first for this company...

Makes me wish I could trade up my 605...

 

[arrt vandelay]

seems like a great buy for someone setting up an ht for the first time...

 

[PearlcorderS701]

seems like a great buy for someone setting up an ht for the first time...

The 600-series Onkyos always were...and they're even great buys to the more "seasoned" HT enthusiasts who are on a budget...

 

[bigbassdave]

While I think the 608 seems like a great receiver at the price point and I am considering buying one for my man room I can't help but feel that maybe THX certification is kind of cheapened in a way by being stamped on mid level receivers. Does anyone else feel this way?

 

[jostenmeat]

While I think the 608 seems like a great receiver at the price point and I am considering buying one for my man room I can't help but feel that maybe THX certification is kind of cheapened in a way by being stamped on mid level receivers. Does anyone else feel this way?

Don't worry about it. THX is on EVERYTHING! I just (finally) checked out my friend's 65V10, and I saw the box to his Tivo unit sitting on the floor. Yep, it said THX on it. I mean, a DVR that is THX certified? LOL

Anyhoo, there are different THX certs for even receivers (like Select vs Ultra), but again, if curious about amp performance, I'd just ask PENG or perhaps Seth, 3db, TLS, AcuDef and take their word for it. haha

 

[PENG]

'Wica,

Please don't think that I was attempting to say that your tone was attempting to "pick a fight" or "start trouble" or anything like that -- I was merely expressing my personal feelings about the 600-series line of AVRs from this company. No problem to keep discussing our opinions and feelings! No harm done.

I TOTALLY understand the whole thing behind a good power amp adding even intense dynamics to lower volume listening situations and such, and how good, clean power can be effective across the entire volume spectrum. Also, I understand that my RTi12's are power hungry, but I discussed this at VERY LONG lengths with Polk Audio's support staff, and when I told them, repeatedly, that I was worried about my Onkyo 605 driving these speakers, they assured me that the RTi12's would be absolutely fine being driven by the 605, as they're 8 ohm models and can take anywhere from 50 to 500 watts with no problems. I am also crossing them over inside the receiver, so the 605 doesn't have to work as hard to drive them.

Now, THAT DOES NOT MEAN that these giant speakers could absolutely benefit from a good, strong, powerful multichannel amp -- they sure could to really get them to sing. But I was just stating that RIGHT NOW, the audio I am experiencing from my setup seems more than adequate for our needs and ears (that is, the so-called "90 watts per channel" feeding the RTi12's and other speakers).

So, let me clear that up a bit...I'm not saying my system is completely and utterly fine the way it is, as a power amp wouldn't do any benefit to it and wouldn't make it sound any better than it does now...no...that's not what I'm saying. I am absolutely sure a good amp would bring these speakers and the soundstage to life -- but right now, I am satisfied, personally, with the punch and dynamics of the system. I'd love to upgrade to a beefier receiver with preamp outs and perhaps the three channel Emotiva amp, but our room really ROCKS the way it is, right now.

I think you are among those who won't not go with hearsays and you might not be easily influenced by placebo effect like many people are. There is no basis for improved details due only to a more powerful external amp when listening at low level assuming low listening level means the amps are running well below its rated output. I bet if you ask the engineers (not the sales people) who design those external amps will tell you the same. Even at reference level, my own system outputs only a few watts and probably would peak to 50W or so momentarily for like milli or even micro seconds. Even during those short durations, how people could hear more details or what is beyond me but great for them if they have that kind of ability. If they can hear the details that they are after then they are happy but my point is that everyone (like you) should really find out for themself and not go with the flow/hearsay stuff. No further debate on this kind of topics would unite both camps (those who believe and who who don't). The only common belief in the power debate that I know exist is that both sides typically agree more power is, or at least can be, beneficial whether you need it or not.

Back to the 608, imho if I am after better AQ I would go with at least the 800 series and those have preouts. I am not saying the 608 does not have a decent preamp but one has to draw the line somewhere, either we expect all AVR to have preouts or we have to accept the fact that manufacturers have to find/define a starting point that makes sense to them overall. Onkyo happens to draw that line on the 700 series, most likely based on their market research data but that's just my guess.

 

[PENG]

That may be, but you also be experiencing sound quality reduction at higher SPL levels. Many people don't even realize that the are driving their amps into clipping range often at higher SPLs. The audible result is an added 'harshness', as the best I can describe it right before you hit 'hard clipping', which is just fuzz and can not be missed. But hard clipping is very rarely experienced at a rate that would be plainly audible. It comes down to the RMS average power of the music relative to the 0dBfS point. You are far less probably to experience distortion issues on moderan jazz/pop/country/rap music, as it is dynamically compressed to have no more than about 10dB of peak capacity, where as older stuff from the early/mid 90s had around 18dB of capacity, and stuff from the 80s, 20+ dBs. And realize that dBs are not linear. 6dB increase is 2x linear. 12db is 4x linear. And so on. It takes 4x amplifier power to achieve just a 6db increase in acoustic output. So, it is easy to see why modern music requires far less power than older music, on average.

Since I use a huge range of music and ages(one favorite CD of mine has nearly 30dB peaks), and do audio editing of uncompressed audio signals, I have 10x the power(1000+ RMS total per stereo channel on both my main systems) available as compared to average systems to ensure clipping is never an issue under any circumstances.

-Chris'

Chris, I apologize in advance for nit picking but I thought you should know there is no such thing as rms average power, only rms voltage, current, but average power, or some stretch the def to include the term rms power (really not exactly correct) but definitely not rms avg power.

Kidding aside, I fully agree with you that having more power is a sure way to avoid clipping but I have not been convinced that audible clipping can occur in home application where an Onkyo 608 are putting out a few watts and peaking to 50W or so occasionally. Surely you can play stuff at such normal listening level that calls for occasional peaks to near or past the point of clipping but in those cases people are not going to hear the harshness of the sort you are referring to. In fact I would argue that if, and only if, I can hear such harshness using a 608 in my application, then I would say the 608 is not living up to its specs even at low level (say 20W) output. I am sure I won't hear such harshness from a 15W Luxman amp just to make my point clear.

 

[BriPhil]

my new Onkyo TX-SR608

Well, I've now spent a full week with my new Onkyo TX-SR608. I haven't tried all of the different settings, nor have I really pushed it to its limits, but I'm getting comfortable with it, and I REALLY like almost everything I've discovered so far.

My concern about heat buildup was addressed the moment I opened the box and peeled back the plastic wrapping. As with the European model in the German article previously mentioned in this thread, I could see the fins of a huge heat sink and a good-size fan (120mm diameter, I think) through the slits in the top of the case.

The fan is so quiet that I can't hear it at all unless I open the front of the AV cabinet and put my ear within about 2 feet of the reciever, and even then it's just barely a whisper. It moves enough air that I haven't noticed anything in the AV cabinet getting warm, even during the one time I cranked up the volume to the point where my wife put her fingers in her ears and retreated to the other end of the house.

The power cord is hard-wired instead of modular, as on some higher-end units. Also, there are no AC outlets on the back of the 608. My old Denon AVR-2800 had two switched outlets, and I would have really missed that feature if I hadn't already put a Panamax power conditioner in the center section of my AV cabinet.

Connecting the rest of my gear was a snap. The HDMI ports and speaker terminals are clearly labeled, logically laid out, and easy to reach as you add more wires. The only part of that task that required some reading in the manual was figuring how to attach my bi-amp'ed front main speakers. (This configuration forces you into a 5.1 setup, but I wasn't planning to buy surround back or high/wide aux speakers anyway.)

With regard to cabling, I have run into one slight disappointment: I haven't been able to get the Audio Return Channel to work. I'm not sure if this is a problem with the Samsung TV or the Onkyo AVR. (The cable is brand-new, and according to the box it's "HDMI 1.4 compliant with ethernet", so I'm pretty sure *that's* not the problem.)

There doesn't seem to be a setting in the HDMI section of either device's menu tree to force ARC to be "on". The only choices I've found are "OFF" and "Auto", so my wild guess at the moment is that each unit is waiting for the other to initiate that part of the linkup.

Advice on that issue would be appreciated, and I'll keep researching and trying stuff on my own. I'll report back if I come up with something that works. In the mean time, I've added a digital optical cable to the mix. I already had antenna and Ethernet cables in addition to the power and HDMI cords going up to the TV, so one more cable isn't that big a deal.

The Onkyo remote is supposed to be capable of controlling other gear via the usual trial-and-error device-code entry method we've all come to know and hate over the years. Since I have a Harmony 900 remote, I didn't even attempt this. I did at least put the batteries in, figuring I might need to call up some of the little-used functions that I hadn't bothered to program using the Logitech software.

The Faroujda DCDi video processor hasn't had much to do so far. The input from my Blu-Ray player is already as good as it gets, and what comes in from the AT&T U-Verse set-top box isn't far behind. On that input, the picture comes in at 1080i (60Hz, 24-bit), and it goes out to the TV at 1080p (60Hz, 30-bit).

I should add that I only know this because of the 608's "Info" screen overlay; I can't switch the settings fast enough to tell a difference. As sharp as the Samsung TV's picture was before adding the Onkyo AVR into the mix, I suspect I wouldn't notice any real improvement even if I were able to see them side-by-side.

The video processing was just a nice-to-have, anyway; the real reason I got this particular receiver was for the *sound*, and the Onkyo 608 has exceeded all my expectations. Now I'm no audio engineer, so won't throw out a bunch of spec's and buzzwords without knowing what I'm talking about. I do have a critical ear for music, though; and I loved what I heard from the moment I fired this baby up with factory-default settings. Highs were crisp, midrange vocals were so clear it was like the artist was right there in the room, and the low end was assertive without being 'muddy' or 'booming'.

The one downside to the sound was that I started to hear flaws in some of my MP3 files. The Onkyo "Music Optimizer" setting did help quite a bit with this issue, but at some point I'll probably end up re-ripping my CD collection in a lossless format, since I've got plenty of space on my media server.

After sampling a CD or two and a chapter or so from a couple of DVDs, I moved on to really tuning the receiver and speakers for the room with Audyssey 2EQ. It was easy and painless, and it resulted in a much better sound on all media. The "sweet spot" was noticeably larger, and the individual speakers seemed to almost 'disappear'. With the factory defaults, I could easily point to each speaker with my eyes closed; that was much more difficult after the tuning software had woked its magic.

The resulting setup wasn't completely perfect, however. Remember that I mentioned earlier that I'd decided to go with a bi-amp configuration, which required an explicit setting to that effect in the receiver's configuration menu tree in addition to the extra set of wires. Despite this setting -- and the clear implication that the front mains were NOT little piddly bookshelf speakers -- the 2EQ process still set the low-end cutoff frequency at 40Hz, resulting in a slight but noticeable drop in bass output.

I went back into the menu tree and found the spot where I could change the crossover to "full range", fixing that issue. With that last change, I think the sound I'm getting out of this AVR is now firmly in the 'awesome' category.

Programming the Harmony remote is still an ongoing process, but I'm now pretty close to what I consider a 'final' configuration. The biggest problem I had at the start was figuring out what Logitech decided to call the port for my U-Verse box. The Blu-Ray player was on the "DVD" port, but there was no "CBL", "SAT", or "DVR" listed in the Logitech software; just "VIDEO1" through "VIDEO6". A bit of trial and error showed me that the correct selection was "VIDEO2".

So am I pleased with my purchase? Absolutely. This was the perfect AVR for me. In retrospect, I should maybe have waited another few days, though. Since I placed my order, NewEgg has dropped the price by $5, and they're also throwing in an iPod dock now, if you order by 10 May. From what I've read about it, I don't think I'd want to *buy* the dock for $90+, but getting it for free would've been nice. Oh, well. I've gotten a lot of enjoyment out of the receiver this past week, so that's got to be worth something.

Well, that's it for my mini-review of the Onkyo TX-SR608. Comments are welcome, and drop me a line here if you have insights on that Audio Return Channel thing. Is anybody out there doing that on *any* HT gear?

Regards,
bp

AVR: Onkyo TX-SR608
BDP: Samsung BD-C6900
HDTV: Samsung UN-55C7000

mains: Polk Audio RT800i
center: Polk Audio CS245i
surr.: Polk Audio FX300i
sub.: Polk Audio PSW250

 

[chas_w]

Great review BP...thanks!

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Wow -- thanks indeed for the review of this receiver, Phil! I intended to do one of the TX-8555 stereo receiver when I got it, but didn't think many audiophiles on here would even care about a unit of this caliber...shame, really, because it truly is a powerhouse especially for the price...

But let me address some of your thoughts below on the new 608...

Well, I've now spent a full week with my new Onkyo TX-SR608. I haven't tried all of the different settings, nor have I really pushed it to its limits, but I'm getting comfortable with it, and I REALLY like almost everything I've discovered so far.

My concern about heat buildup was addressed the moment I opened the box and peeled back the plastic wrapping. As with the European model in the German article previously mentioned in this thread, I could see the fins of a huge heat sink and a good-size fan (120mm diameter, I think) through the slits in the top of the case.

Seems Onkyo made many changes to the 600-class including the heat fins -- very nice.

The fan is so quiet that I can't hear it at all unless I open the front of the AV cabinet and put my ear within about 2 feet of the reciever, and even then it's just barely a whisper. It moves enough air that I haven't noticed anything in the AV cabinet getting warm, even during the one time I cranked up the volume to the point where my wife put her fingers in her ears and retreated to the other end of the house.

So -- the receiver is powerful enough for you, with the juice goosed to 100 watts per channel? Can you share some of your speaker settings (calibration numbers) and if you're utilizing the IntelliVolume trim at all?

The power cord is hard-wired instead of modular, as on some higher-end units. Also, there are no AC outlets on the back of the 608. My old Denon AVR-2800 had two switched outlets, and I would have really missed that feature if I hadn't already put a Panamax power conditioner in the center section of my AV cabinet.

These are two things about the 600-series...they never had detachable power cords nor did they have, after the TX-SR600, the switchable AC outlets...I know what you mean about the outlets as it was a great convenience to be able to plug in my powered sub so it would be switched on and off with the receiver's power...

Connecting the rest of my gear was a snap. The HDMI ports and speaker terminals are clearly labeled, logically laid out, and easy to reach as you add more wires. The only part of that task that required some reading in the manual was figuring how to attach my bi-amp'ed front main speakers. (This configuration forces you into a 5.1 setup, but I wasn't planning to buy surround back or high/wide aux speakers anyway.)

Even my 605 was pretty straightforward as well; do you use bare speaker wire for cabling or banana plugs?

With regard to cabling, I have run into one slight disappointment: I haven't been able to get the Audio Return Channel to work. I'm not sure if this is a problem with the Samsung TV or the Onkyo AVR. (The cable is brand-new, and according to the box it's "HDMI 1.4 compliant with ethernet", so I'm pretty sure *that's* not the problem.)

There doesn't seem to be a setting in the HDMI section of either device's menu tree to force ARC to be "on". The only choices I've found are "OFF" and "Auto", so my wild guess at the moment is that each unit is waiting for the other to initiate that part of the linkup.

Advice on that issue would be appreciated, and I'll keep researching and trying stuff on my own. I'll report back if I come up with something that works. In the mean time, I've added a digital optical cable to the mix. I already had antenna and Ethernet cables in addition to the power and HDMI cords going up to the TV, so one more cable isn't that big a deal.

The Onkyo remote is supposed to be capable of controlling other gear via the usual trial-and-error device-code entry method we've all come to know and hate over the years. Since I have a Harmony 900 remote, I didn't even attempt this. I did at least put the batteries in, figuring I might need to call up some of the little-used functions that I hadn't bothered to program using the Logitech software.

Not sure what the "Audio Return Channel" is...perhaps someone else can chime in...my 605 has no such feature as far as I know...

The Faroujda DCDi video processor hasn't had much to do so far. The input from my Blu-Ray player is already as good as it gets, and what comes in from the AT&T U-Verse set-top box isn't far behind. On that input, the picture comes in at 1080i (60Hz, 24-bit), and it goes out to the TV at 1080p (60Hz, 30-bit).

It's still the DCDi on the 608? Are you running HDMI IN > HDMI OUT from the 608?

I should add that I only know this because of the 608's "Info" screen overlay; I can't switch the settings fast enough to tell a difference. As sharp as the Samsung TV's picture was before adding the Onkyo AVR into the mix, I suspect I wouldn't notice any real improvement even if I were able to see them side-by-side.

If this is what I suspect it is, you should leave the AVR's "IMMEDIATE DISPLAY" feature turned OFF, as it's been known to degrade an incoming video signal a bit if it's on...

The video processing was just a nice-to-have, anyway; the real reason I got this particular receiver was for the *sound*, and the Onkyo 608 has exceeded all my expectations. Now I'm no audio engineer, so won't throw out a bunch of spec's and buzzwords without knowing what I'm talking about. I do have a critical ear for music, though; and I loved what I heard from the moment I fired this baby up with factory-default settings. Highs were crisp, midrange vocals were so clear it was like the artist was right there in the room, and the low end was assertive without being 'muddy' or 'booming'.

The one downside to the sound was that I started to hear flaws in some of my MP3 files. The Onkyo "Music Optimizer" setting did help quite a bit with this issue, but at some point I'll probably end up re-ripping my CD collection in a lossless format, since I've got plenty of space on my media server.

After sampling a CD or two and a chapter or so from a couple of DVDs, I moved on to really tuning the receiver and speakers for the room with Audyssey 2EQ. It was easy and painless, and it resulted in a much better sound on all media. The "sweet spot" was noticeably larger, and the individual speakers seemed to almost 'disappear'. With the factory defaults, I could easily point to each speaker with my eyes closed; that was much more difficult after the tuning software had woked its magic.

I was going to ask you next if you ran Audyssey...

The resulting setup wasn't completely perfect, however. Remember that I mentioned earlier that I'd decided to go with a bi-amp configuration, which required an explicit setting to that effect in the receiver's configuration menu tree in addition to the extra set of wires. Despite this setting -- and the clear implication that the front mains were NOT little piddly bookshelf speakers -- the 2EQ process still set the low-end cutoff frequency at 40Hz, resulting in a slight but noticeable drop in bass output.

I went back into the menu tree and found the spot where I could change the crossover to "full range", fixing that issue. With that last change, I think the sound I'm getting out of this AVR is now firmly in the 'awesome' category.

According to all reports so far, Onkyo implements some kind of algorithm in their units that "tells" the Audyssey system to place certain speakers as Full Range (based on certain criteria), even if they shouldn't be run that way -- Chris from Audyssey has stated several times that you need to go back into the menus after running Audyssey and change the crossovers if the system didn't get them right automatically; in my case, my Polk RTi12's are very large mains, but I didn't want my 605 powering them full range to eat up all its juice...so I set those to rolloff at 60Hz, and 80Hz for the center and surrounds.

My point being, it's okay to go into the AVR's menu and change the crossovers after Audyssey does the calibration; I don't particularly care for the Audyssey "sound" with the EQ curve applied or its channel settings, so I set everything manually -- did you try adjusting each channel to your liking, beyond leaving them on defaults?

 

[BriPhil]

100 watts per channel is more than enough for my purposes. Even with the A/C running full blast, a volume of 70 (%?) or so is all I need to hear everything from any audio source. Cranking it up any higher than that results in dirty looks from the wife.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the front main speakers are bi-amped and set for full-spectrum. The sub is getting 120 Hz and lower with the level set at -13db. The center and surround channels are all getting 40 Hz and up with the levels at +1db. Other than the one tweak to eliminate the 40 Hz cutoff on the mains in order to spread out the bass a bit more across the front of the room, I haven't changed anything from what came out of the Audyssey 2EQ process.

Rather than IntelliVolume, I'm making use of the Audyssey Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ functions. I'm sure it's just a matter of personal taste and my (lack of) ability to manually tune the system for my living room, but I find I really like the automatic EQ and timing / distance settings. The post-Audyssey sound is much better than what I accomplished myself with just a handheld Radio Shack meter.

As for the physical connections to the speakers, I've got good-quality cables (14-gauge to the center and surround channels, 2 pairs of 12-gauge to the mains), with banana plugs on both ends in all cases.

Regarding the AVR's information overlay, it doesn't come up auto-magically; I started a playback from the source, then used the AVR's remote to call up the on-screen display for a few seconds just to get information on what was coming in and going out.

And yes, it's still Faroujda DCDi, and I DID eventually get the Audio Return Channel (ARC) working, so (for a while) I was able to get ALL my connections between components down to just HDMI. The initial ARC failure I reported previously was due to something I did because I interpreted the various manuals a bit too literally.

The Samsung BD player and TV have a feature called "Anynet+" that, according to the instructions, allows *SAMSUNG* components to pass management information back and forth over the HDMI cable. The idea is that when you power up your (Samsung) Blu-Ray player, the (Samsung) TV senses this and turns itself on and selects the appropriate HDMI input. It also is supposed to let you consolidate remotes -- you can theoretically use the TV remote to control the BD player, because the TV passes on the appropriate instructions over the HDMI cable.

Onkyo has the same capability, which they call "RIHD". And as with the Samsung components, the documentation also says it's for *ONKYO* components to talk to each other. This allows for additional devices to be controlled based on the selection from the 'master' component's remote control. It also causes information (such as volume or track number) to be displayed on the TV when it changes on the AVR or at the source.

Upon reading these explanations, I mistakenly assumed that "RIHD" and "Anynet+" were similar but incompatible proprietary control and information-transfer mechanisms, so I disabled them. Well, it turns out that both are actually the respective manufacturers' implementations of HDMI-CEC, and they *DO* inter-operate and cooperate with each other -- most of the time.

I turned on "Anynet+" in the Samsung TV and "RIHD" in the Onkyo AVR, and voila! The Audio Return Channel started working as desired. I could hear TV audio coming from the surround speakers, and I could also see the AVR's volume being displayed on the TV when I changed it. Pretty cool! OK, so what *IS* ARC, and why does your 605 not have it?

Audio Return Channel is something new with HDMI 1.4, so it's only applicable to Onkyo receiver models that came out this year (SR308/508/608 and RC260). It addresses one specific issue -- over-the-air TV audio coming back into the A/V receiver.

With HDMI 1.3 and earlier, you can *almost* get by with a single physical cable between the receiver and the other components. The one exception is when you want to watch over-the-air TV and have the audio come out through your AVR surround-sound speaker setup. To make that happen, you have to add a second cable (twin analog stereo RCA, digital coax, or fiberoptic) between the TV and the AVR.

With HDMI 1.4's Audio Return Channel, the audio from the over-the-air program comes back *in* to the AVR over the audio portion of the HDMI *output* cable going to the TV, eliminating the need for that second cable.

Anyway, after getting the ARC linkage working, I thought I'd finally gotten things into their final configuration. Unfortunately, my TV now started intermittently displaying an error message indicating a loss of signal from the BD player. I was also hearing occasional skipping in the audio.

Well, that was not acceptable, and it didn't start happening until I enabled the end-to-end HDMI-CEC stuff. So this evening, I turned it all back off and re-inserted the Toslink cable for over-the-air TV audio. So far, it's been stable ever since, so my theory at the moment is that maybe "Anynet+" and "RIHD" aren't *quite* compatible, after all.

I'll be running it this way for a few days to see if the problem has really completely gone away. Assuming that fixes the issue, it will apparently be another of those ideas that looks good on paper, but doesn't quite pan out in real life.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

100 watts per channel is more than enough for my purposes. Even with the A/C running full blast, a volume of 70 (%?) or so is all I need to hear everything from any audio source. Cranking it up any higher than that results in dirty looks from the wife.

I hear you. No pun intended. I know what you mean about the dirty looks from the wife -- I get the same exact thing. I was asking because I feel as if with my 605 at 90 watts a channel, I am now needing to crank my master volume up higher than I did in the past because the unit has been installed in a bigger room.

When you say "70," did you mean percent, or "70" on the Onkyo's volume display readout?

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the front main speakers are bi-amped and set for full-spectrum. The sub is getting 120 Hz and lower with the level set at -13db.

Wow -- I cannot imagine "-13dB" on my system for the sub...at "+3dB" for my Polk PSW350, it's just beginning to heat up and rattle...

The center and surround channels are all getting 40 Hz and up with the levels at +1db. Other than the one tweak to eliminate the 40 Hz cutoff on the mains in order to spread out the bass a bit more across the front of the room, I haven't changed anything from what came out of the Audyssey 2EQ process.

Interesting. I didn't utilize my Audyssey routine because I simply prefer my own manual process and settings without any EQ. My mains and center are much higher in dBs than yours, though.

Rather than IntelliVolume, I'm making use of the Audyssey Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ functions. I'm sure it's just a matter of personal taste and my (lack of) ability to manually tune the system for my living room, but I find I really like the automatic EQ and timing / distance settings. The post-Audyssey sound is much better than what I accomplished myself with just a handheld Radio Shack meter.

Your comments about the SPL meter and the way it comes out versus the Audyssey setup is basically what I was addressing before that paragraph with regard to my own setup -- but IntelliVolume is not really the same thing as what you're using the Dynamic Volume and such for; IntelliVolume is supposed to level each INPUT you have active in the AVR so they don't spike in volume from source to source. While that's the way to use it, officially, I use it for another solution -- I use it almost like a power amp's sensitivity control, in which I can "crank up" each input to appear to be louder at a lower volume level, if that makes any sense...

As for the physical connections to the speakers, I've got good-quality cables (14-gauge to the center and surround channels, 2 pairs of 12-gauge to the mains), with banana plugs on both ends in all cases.

Interesting. I've never gone down the banana route before, always plugging my bare wires right into the speakers and amps, but I may do this on the next setup...

Regarding the AVR's information overlay, it doesn't come up auto-magically; I started a playback from the source, then used the AVR's remote to call up the on-screen display for a few seconds just to get information on what was coming in and going out.

If you're running video through the AVR as passthrough, don't use the on screen display -- under MISCELANEOUS on the receiver's setup menu, there is a selection for IMMEDIATE DISPLAY. Leave this OFF; from all accounts, this softens incoming video a bit.

And yes, it's still Faroujda DCDi, and I DID eventually get the Audio Return Channel (ARC) working, so (for a while) I was able to get ALL my connections between components down to just HDMI. The initial ARC failure I reported previously was due to something I did because I interpreted the various manuals a bit too literally.

I still don't know what Auto Return Channel is, but that's probably because my 605 doesn't have it...

The Samsung BD player and TV have a feature called "Anynet+" that, according to the instructions, allows *SAMSUNG* components to pass management information back and forth over the HDMI cable. The idea is that when you power up your (Samsung) Blu-Ray player, the (Samsung) TV senses this and turns itself on and selects the appropriate HDMI input. It also is supposed to let you consolidate remotes -- you can theoretically use the TV remote to control the BD player, because the TV passes on the appropriate instructions over the HDMI cable.

Indeed; I've never used these "all one brand" connection systems.

Onkyo has the same capability, which they call "RIHD". And as with the Samsung components, the documentation also says it's for *ONKYO* components to talk to each other. This allows for additional devices to be controlled based on the selection from the 'master' component's remote control. It also causes information (such as volume or track number) to be displayed on the TV when it changes on the AVR or at the source.

Right...they've been implementing the RIHD for generations.

Upon reading these explanations, I mistakenly assumed that "RIHD" and "Anynet+" were similar but incompatible proprietary control and information-transfer mechanisms, so I disabled them. Well, it turns out that both are actually the respective manufacturers' implementations of HDMI-CEC, and they *DO* inter-operate and cooperate with each other -- most of the time.

I turned on "Anynet+" in the Samsung TV and "RIHD" in the Onkyo AVR, and voila! The Audio Return Channel started working as desired. I could hear TV audio coming from the surround speakers, and I could also see the AVR's volume being displayed on the TV when I changed it. Pretty cool! OK, so what *IS* ARC, and why does your 605 not have it?

Audio Return Channel is something new with HDMI 1.4, so it's only applicable to Onkyo receiver models that came out this year (SR308/508/608 and RC260). It addresses one specific issue -- over-the-air TV audio coming back into the A/V receiver.

With HDMI 1.3 and earlier, you can *almost* get by with a single physical cable between the receiver and the other components. The one exception is when you want to watch over-the-air TV and have the audio come out through your AVR surround-sound speaker setup. To make that happen, you have to add a second cable (twin analog stereo RCA, digital coax, or fiberoptic) between the TV and the AVR.

With HDMI 1.4's Audio Return Channel, the audio from the over-the-air program comes back *in* to the AVR over the audio portion of the HDMI *output* cable going to the TV, eliminating the need for that second cable.

Anyway, after getting the ARC linkage working, I thought I'd finally gotten things into their final configuration. Unfortunately, my TV now started intermittently displaying an error message indicating a loss of signal from the BD player. I was also hearing occasional skipping in the audio.

Well, that was not acceptable, and it didn't start happening until I enabled the end-to-end HDMI-CEC stuff. So this evening, I turned it all back off and re-inserted the Toslink cable for over-the-air TV audio. So far, it's been stable ever since, so my theory at the moment is that maybe "Anynet+" and "RIHD" aren't *quite* compatible, after all.

I'll be running it this way for a few days to see if the problem has really completely gone away. Assuming that fixes the issue, it will apparently be another of those ideas that looks good on paper, but doesn't quite pan out in real life.

Okay -- you cleared up the Auto Return Channel issue, and why the 605 doesn't have it! It appears it is in fact a HDMI 1.4 thing...