Onkyo Tone Controls - what do you guys do?

[Squishman]

RZ50 has bass, vocal and treble tone controls. You guys with an Onkyo AVR if you're playing music in two-channel, what are you doing with your vocal setting? I don't necessarily like my settings skewed one way or another, except for the sub is on, which skews it way bassier than normally intended for a record released in 1970 (playing Deep Purple's "In Rock" at the moment), but that's a little off my topic. I like to keep it as flat as possible, as far as the AVR settings. But I do have my vocal at +1. Sounds good that way.

 

[Squishman]

Ooops, wrong forum. In case an admin wants to move it to the Amps and AVR forum.

 

[TLS Guy]

RZ50 has bass, vocal and treble tone controls. You guys with an Onkyo AVR if you're playing music in two-channel, what are you doing with your vocal setting? I don't necessarily like my settings skewed one way or another, except for the sub is on, which skews it way bassier than normally intended for a record released in 1970 (playing Deep Purple's "In Rock" at the moment), but that's a little off my topic. I like to keep it as flat as possible, as far as the AVR settings. But I do have my vocal at +1. Sounds good that way.

LP and preamps are a more complicated issue than you think.

My problems with LPs are solved with good turntables and above all my prized possessions which are my Quad preamps. Nothing else handles vinyl like Peter Walker's Quad preamps. He is the only guy that really got this right.

The first issue is that he correctly rolls of the LF below 30 Hz. You can't cut a groove on an LP below 30 Hz without sacrificing a huge amount of playing time, due to the width the grooves require without disastrous groove "kissing". Few LPs are perfectly flat so this filter prevents "warp wow", where you get large useless woofer excursions.

Next is his brilliant HF filtering system which makes taming LP's with less then perfect cuts enjoyable. This is his HF roll off and vary slope system. This is where you can select cut slopes at 10K, 7K or 5K. The whole system is just brilliant.

One other point is that I think the vast majority of people turn up their subs too high. Also if you have capable speakers the LFE plus main setting is the one to use. DIRAC does not allow for this which is a major short coming. I'm lucky and don't need any of those Eq programs.

I have found one of the best ways to set a sub, is to play a good video of a well recorded pipe organ with 32' stops. Then when there is a good pedal run down the board I make sure that the loudness of the scale is perfectly even, so that the deepest note is not louder or softer then the rest an very even. I actually find that is much more sensitive than measurements. That is what I have found to me the most accurate way to set the LFE signal.

For the odd very bad cases I have a Spectro Acoustics 2/10 R I can but in circuit and use that octave equalizer. I seldom have to use it. So, I am covered for all eventualities.

I have my vintage Quad 22 tube unit that I am the original owner of that is connected to the Decca arm and heads. This units has the selectable equalization curve for any LP produced. The LP RIAA curve was standardized at the beginning, but the 78s never were and so different brands had different Eq curves.

 

[lovinthehd]

My Onkyo has Audyssey, which I prefer far more than simple tone controls. If I had one with Dirac, I'd probably use that over tone controls.

 

[lovinthehd]

LP and preamps are a more complicated issue than you think.

My problems with LPs are solved with good turntables and above all my prized possessions which are my Quad preamps. Nothing else handles vinyl like Peter Walker's Quad preamps. He is the only guy that really got this right.

The first issue is that he correctly rolls of the LF below 30 Hz. You can't cut a groove on an LP below 30 Hz without sacrificing a huge amount of playing time, due to the width the grooves require without disastrous groove "kissing". Few LPs are perfectly flat so this filter prevents "warp wow", where you get large useless woofer excursions.

Next is his brilliant HF filtering system which makes taming LP's with less then perfect cuts enjoyable. This is his HF roll off and vary slope system. This is where you can select cut slopes at 10K, 7K or 5K. The whole system is just brilliant.

One other point is that I think the vast majority of people turn up their subs too high. Also if you have capable speakers the LFE plus main setting is the one to use. DIRAC does not allow for this which is a major short coming. I'm lucky and don't need any of those Eq programs.

I have found one of the best ways to set a sub, is to play a good video of a well recorded pipe organ with 32' stops. Then when there is a good pedal run down the board I make sure that the loudness of the scale is perfectly even, so that the deepest note is not louder or softer then the rest an very even. I actually find that is much more sensitive than measurements. That is what I have found to me the most accurate way to set the LFE signal.

For the odd very bad cases I have a Spectro Acoustics 2/10 R I can but in circuit and use that octave equalizer. I seldom have to use it. So, I am covered for all eventualities.

I have my vintage Quad 22 tube unit that I am the original owner of that is connected to the Decca arm and heads. This units has the selectable equalization curve for any LP produced. The LP RIAA curve was standardized at the beginning, but the 78s never were and so different brands had different Eq curves.

Following this guy's recommendations for various eq, not so much.

 

[Squishman]

I just want to mention that I have adjusted my vocal settings to zero or flat. It was at plus 1. I changed my mind and now I think it sounds better at zero.

 

[lovinthehd]

I just want to mention that I have adjusted my vocal settings to zero or flat. It was at plus 1. I changed my mind and now I think it sounds better at zero.

What are vocal settings?

 

[Squishman]

What are vocal settings?

Never heard of it before this amp to tell you the truth. Probably an Onkyo thing. It's a tone control betwixt bass and treble. Probably exclusively for TV and movies. I think it is only active in surround modes.

 

[lovinthehd]

Never heard of it before this amp to tell you the truth. Probably an Onkyo thing. It's a tone control betwixt bass and treble. Probably exclusively for TV and movies. I think it is only active in surround modes.

I'll have to take a look at the manual, never heard of such an "adjustment". It would need to be between bass and treble Is that what it is called in the manual/setup mode advice?

 

[lovinthehd]

Never heard of it before this amp to tell you the truth. Probably an Onkyo thing. It's a tone control betwixt bass and treble. Probably exclusively for TV and movies. I think it is only active in surround modes.

I remember some old Marantz receivers had a "midrange" tone control....sounds like it's similar.

 

[TLS Guy]

Never heard of it before this amp to tell you the truth. Probably an Onkyo thing. It's a tone control betwixt bass and treble. Probably exclusively for TV and movies. I think it is only active in surround modes.

Your speakers sounded very neutral to me. I would absolutely not use any tone controls. They are for inadequate reproducers if that. I doubt your system needs Audyssey or Dirac either. When you hear my system, no tone controls are in action and no "so called auto Eq programs."

 

[lovinthehd]

Your speakers sounded very neutral to me. I would absolutely not use any tone controls. They are for inadequate reproducers if that. I doubt your system needs Audyssey or Dirac either. When you hear my system, no tone controls are in action and no "so called auto Eq programs."

Then why use vinyl at all? It relies on eq.

 

[TLS Guy]

Then why use vinyl at all? It relies on eq.

Yes, but is is a standard curve, the RIAA curve. Not the same issue at all. Tape also has Eq curves. Even the old 78s had Eq curves, but different labels had different curves. My Quad 22 tube preamp has the different curves for different manufacturers. This is in no way similar to using tone controls. So do be daft and ignorant.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes, but is is a standard curve, the RIAA curve. Not the same issue at all. Tape also has Eq curves. Even the old 78s had Eq curves, but different labels had different curves. My Quad 22 tube preamp has the different curves for different manufacturers. This is in no way similar to using tone controls. So do be daft and ignorant.

LOL figured you'd respond like that RIAA had many curves from what I remember. Don't you even have a chart of such you've posted? Seems daft to stick to vinyl, tho.

ps Let alone the general idea of using eq with audio as only being good for RIAA crap.

 

[TLS Guy]

LOL figured you'd respond like that RIAA had many curves from what I remember. Don't you even have a chart of such you've posted? Seems daft to stick to vinyl, tho.

ps Let alone the general idea of using eq with audio as only being good for RIAA crap.

There is only one RIAA curve, yes, only one. That standard inverse RIAA curve EQ is built into every phono input, and all LPs are recorded with the RIAA curve. Stop talking absolute nonsense that comes from your "you know where". LPs since 1948 have been recorded with the RIAA curve. In the 78 era different companies had different curves, and the forcing of the RIAA curve ended that confusion.

So, you can see that if you did not use the RIAA EQ on playback there would be a massive HF pre-emphasis and the disc would be unlistenable.

Cassette tapes all have a similar system based on the tape formulation. There are tabs on the back of the cassette that selects the correct EQ when you insert the tape.

Reel to reel unfortunately had three CCIR, NAB and IEC for each of the three had an Eq for all of the playback speeds. Without that disc noise and tape hiss would make the program unlistenable. This is apart from Dolby/dbx etc. which where dynamic Eq varied according the moment by moment dynamic modulation. HF boost was higher in quieter passages and less in louder passages. Now you have had your lesson for the day.

 

[lovinthehd]

There is only one RIAA curve, yes, only one. That standard inverse RIAA curve EQ is built into every phono input, and all LPs are recorded with the RIAA curve. Stop talking absolute nonsense that comes from your "you know where". LPs since 1948 have been recorded with the RIAA curve. In the 78 era different companies had different curves, and the forcing of the RIAA curve ended that confusion.

So, you can see that if you did not use the RIAA EQ on playback there would be a massive HF pre-emphasis and the disc would be unlistenable.

Cassette tapes all have a similar system based on the tape formulation. There are tabs on the back of the cassette that selects the correct EQ when you insert the tape.

Reel to reel unfortunately had three CCIR, NAB and IEC for each of the three had an Eq for all of the playback speeds. Without that disc noise and tape hiss would make the program unlistenable. This is apart from Dolby/dbx etc. which where dynamic Eq varied according the moment by moment dynamic modulation. HF boost was higher in quieter passages and less in louder passages. Now you have had your lesson for the day.

Not what my memory says about various eq curves....maybe not labled "RIAA" particulrly. Lol your idea of "lessons" is more your crap brit stuff where you cannot even compete with bicycle mechanics....

 

[TLS Guy]

Not what my memory says about various eq curves....maybe not labled "RIAA" particulrly. Lol your idea of "lessons" is more your crap brit stuff where you cannot even compete with bicycle mechanics....

In that case you are either misinformed or your memory is failing. What I posted is 100% correct.