Onkyo RZ Series Atmos A/V Receivers Inflated Power Ratings

How should power be rated in receivers?

  • At least FTC method 2CH, fullbandwidth into 8 ohms unclipped

    Votes: 15 75.0%
  • All channels driven 1kHz, into 8 ohms, unclipped.

    Votes: 3 15.0%
  • 1CH driven full power with remaining channels 1/8th power, unclipped

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 1CH driven, 1kHz, 6 ohms, clipped like the new Onkyo and some other Atmos receivers are being rated

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Who cares, just make sure it has preamp outs so I can add a real power amp.

    Votes: 2 10.0%

  • Total voters
    20
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Ratings
4,298 21 9
#1
Custom home theater installers will be happy to see Onkyo’s new lineup of A/V receivers this week at the CEDIA show in Dallas, Texas. Built with custom integration in mind, each Onkyo RZ Series receiver contains features to make installation and integration with control systems easy.

The THX Select2 Plus-certified 11.2-channel TX-RZ3100 Network A/V Receiver and the 9.2-channel TX-RZ1100 Network A/V Receiver, along with a flagship THX Ultra2 Plus-certified 11.2-channel PR-RZ5100 Network A/V Processor are some of the best Onkyo products we've seen despite their ridiculous power ratings. Read on to find out why.




Read: Onkyo RZ Series Atmos A/V Receivers & Inflated Power Ratings

Don't forget to vote in our power ratings poll to let the manufacturers know how you feel about this topic.
 
Umesh Ariyaratne

Umesh Ariyaratne

Enthusiast
Ratings
1
#3
Custom home theater installers will be happy to see Onkyo’s new lineup of A/V receivers this week at the CEDIA show in Dallas, Texas. Built with custom integration in mind, each Onkyo RZ Series receiver contains features to make installation and integration with control systems easy.

The THX Select2 Plus-certified 11.2-channel TX-RZ3100 Network A/V Receiver and the 9.2-channel TX-RZ1100 Network A/V Receiver, along with a flagship THX Ultra2 Plus-certified 11.2-channel PR-RZ5100 Network A/V Processor are some of the best Onkyo products we've seen despite their ridiculous power ratings. Read on to find out why.




Read: Onkyo RZ Series Atmos A/V Receivers & Inflated Power Ratings

Don't forget to vote in our power ratings poll to let the manufacturers know how you feel about this topic.
Hi Gene,

What is the reason that most of the highend AV companies rates watt per channel on 2 channel basis. I have gone through an article that Yamaha MXA 5000 can hanndle only 78W per channel if 7 channles driven . So how it can hanndle 11 channles accurately

Cheers
Umesh
 
M

MNSLD2

Audiophyte
#4
Custom home theater installers will be happy to see Onkyo’s new lineup of A/V receivers this week at the CEDIA show in Dallas, Texas. Built with custom integration in mind, each Onkyo RZ Series receiver contains features to make installation and integration with control systems easy.

The THX Select2 Plus-certified 11.2-channel TX-RZ3100 Network A/V Receiver and the 9.2-channel TX-RZ1100 Network A/V Receiver, along with a flagship THX Ultra2 Plus-certified 11.2-channel PR-RZ5100 Network A/V Processor are some of the best Onkyo products we've seen despite their ridiculous power ratings. Read on to find out why.




Read: Onkyo RZ Series Atmos A/V Receivers & Inflated Power Ratings

Don't forget to vote in our power ratings poll to let the manufacturers know how you feel about this topic.
I would like know their sound test in your testing room.
Please do focus on the quality of sound when used for music listening with good stereo receivers.
 
M

MandM

Audioholic Intern
Ratings
5 1
#5
Quote "WOW this receiver puts out 200 watts/ch All Channels Driven? NOT! Look more closely. This is one channel driven at 6 ohms and at 0.9% (very close to clipping and very high in residual harmonic distortion)."

You need to pay more attention. The 200W/Ch is a one channel rating. You should be more concerned about the 8 ohm rating : 140 W/Ch (8 Ohms, 1 kHz, 0.08% THD, 2 Channels Driven, FTC)

You forget to mention the rating for both is measured at 1kHz and not full bandwidth (20-20kHz).
Regardless I'm pretty sure this receiver will measure quite well when bench tested. This thing is a 43 lb beast.
 
Last edited:
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
866 9 11
#6
I would like know their sound test in your testing room.
Please do focus on the quality of sound when used for music listening with good stereo receivers.
Unless defective, it should sound the same as other avrs when in direct stereo mode with no eq applied.
 
M

MNSLD2

Audiophyte
#7
Unless defective, it should sound the same as other avrs when in direct stereo mode with no eq applied.
That means I am not paying 3000 for a good sound quality rather just for high wattage and other technological integrations? Same as other receiver will mean it at that much price it sounds as good (or bad) as a 400 dollar yamaha rx or pioneer? Or as good as NAD or Cambridge avr which are known for their musical sounds even as integrated surround avr...
Surprising!
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
866 9 11
#8
That means I am not paying 3000 for a good sound quality rather just for high wattage and other technological integrations? Same as other receiver will mean it at that much price it sounds as good (or bad) as a 400 dollar yamaha rx or pioneer? Or as good as NAD or Cambridge avr which are known for their musical sounds even as integrated surround avr...
Surprising!
Features and benefits for avrs as long as they are adequate to drive your speakers to levels you want.

I'll add reliability as well
 
H

hk2000

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
20
#9
I'm curious why on this receiver preview you decided to call out the "bogus" ratings, while you recently "previewed" the Marantz SR6011 and had nothing but praise for it (remember these are "PREVIEWS"!! You do not have the receivers in your room to test them or do much of any listening or measurements). Below are the Onkyo 3100 power ratings from Onkyo's site followed by the Marzntz power ratings from their site.

Power Watts/Ch (6 Ohms 1kHz, 1 Channel Driven, FTC) 200 W, 0.9% THD
Power Watts/Ch (8 Ohms 20-20kHz, 2 Channels Driven, FTC) 140 W, 0.08% THD
(6 Ohms, 1 kHz, 0.9% THD, 1 Channel Driven, FTC) 200 W


Power Output (8 ohm, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.08% 2ch Drive) 110 W
Power Output (6 ohm, 1 kHz, 0.7% 2ch Drive) 150 W
Power Output (6 ohm, 1 kHz, 10% 1ch Drive) 220 W


At least Onkyo is not listing a 10% rating- talk about inflated.

I'm not saying either one is being more honest than the other, but I am saying you're obviously being biased calling one a "Gotta Have It!" while simply calling OUT the other!!
Integrity goes a long way for the manufacturers, but also for reviewers like you, who in this case are mere reporters on the event (CEDIA).

Thank you
 
Last edited:
M Code

M Code

Audioholic Chief
Ratings
472 1
#10
Note that >58% of the AVRs sold in the USA are sold through Internet sellers including Amazon, B&H, New-Egg, E-Bay.... The knowledgible, local brick & mortar audio/video specialist who provided new product info, demo comparisons, unit exchanges, repair is history...
So as to differientate their brand AVR from another they need to stretch the numbers..
Power & price now lead the pack..

Just my $0.02... ;)
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Ratings
4,298 21 9
#11
Quote "WOW this receiver puts out 200 watts/ch All Channels Driven? NOT! Look more closely. This is one channel driven at 6 ohms and at 0.9% (very close to clipping and very high in residual harmonic distortion)."

You need to pay more attention. The 200W/Ch is a one channel rating. You should be more concerned about the 8 ohm rating : 140 W/Ch (8 Ohms, 1 kHz, 0.08% THD, 2 Channels Driven, FTC)

You forget to mention the rating for both is measured at 1kHz and not full bandwidth (20-20kHz).
Regardless I'm pretty sure this receiver will measure quite well when bench tested. This thing is a 43 lb beast.
Look more closely at their website. Its in a row that says all channels even though its a 1CH rating. It's really a 140wpc receiver, not 200 watts as I stated in the article. The power supply is pretty small. It can probably do 140wpc for 3-4 channels driven but we would need to bench test it to be sure.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Ratings
4,298 21 9
#12
I'm curious why on this receiver preview you decided to call out the "bogus" ratings, while you recently "previewed" the Marantz SR6011 and had nothing but praise for it (remember these are "PREVIEWS"!! You do not have the receivers in your room to test them or do much of any listening or measurements). Below are the Onkyo 3100 power ratings from Onkyo's site followed by the Marzntz power ratings from their site.

Power Watts/Ch (6 Ohms 1kHz, 1 Channel Driven, FTC) 200 W, 0.9% THD
Power Watts/Ch (8 Ohms 20-20kHz, 2 Channels Driven, FTC) 140 W, 0.08% THD
(6 Ohms, 1 kHz, 0.9% THD, 1 Channel Driven, FTC) 200 W


Power Output (8 ohm, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.08% 2ch Drive) 110 W
Power Output (6 ohm, 1 kHz, 0.7% 2ch Drive) 150 W
Power Output (6 ohm, 1 kHz, 10% 1ch Drive) 220 W


At least Onkyo is not listing a 10% rating- talk about inflated.

I'm not saying either one is being more honest than the other, but I am saying you're obviously being biased calling one a "Gotta Have It!" while simply calling OUT the other!!
Integrity goes a long way for the manufacturers, but also for reviewers like you, who in this case are mere reporters on the event (CEDIA).

Thank you
You need to pay more attention to our coverage. I've called Denon and Marantz out on this numerous times on our reviews and YouTube videos. I didn't put Gotta Have it on Onkyo due to poor reliability of previous models.
 
H

hk2000

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
20
#13
You need to pay more attention to our coverage. I've called Denon and Marantz out on this numerous times on our reviews and YouTube videos. I didn't put Gotta Have it on Onkyo due to poor reliability of previous models.
Still! You reviewed 2 receivers, you bring up this issue on one while profusely gushing about the other. When you look closely, you see the one you praise actually has more blatant insult to an audiophile's intelligence with a rating such as this: Power Output (6 ohm, 1 kHz, 10% 1ch Driven) 220 W.
I've been using Onkyo receivers and pre-amps since the early '90s, never once have I had one fail on me. When you consider the whole picture, it is easy to see why a more prolific and popular manufacturer would have more volume of complaints out their, it is in no way an indication of higher failure rate. I'm sure you know that.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Ratings
4,298 21 9
#14
Still! You reviewed 2 receivers, you bring up this issue on one while profusely gushing about the other. When you look closely, you see the one you praise actually has more blatant insult to an audiophile's intelligence with a rating such as this: Power Output (6 ohm, 1 kHz, 10% 1ch Driven) 220 W.
I've been using Onkyo receivers and pre-amps since the early '90s, never once have I had one fail on me. When you consider the whole picture, it is easy to see why a more prolific and popular manufacturer would have more volume of complaints out their, it is in no way an indication of higher failure rate. I'm sure you know that.
Denon also gives 2ch full bw rating on their website. Onkyo sells far less receivers than Yamaha (#1 sales) and Denon (#2 seller) yet both have had much lower failure rates than Only I.

I get that you're an Onkyo fan and you don't like our preview but you need to move on and better research our articles to see we apply the same level critisms to All manufacturers.

Look at our article: Trading Amplifier Quality for Features and you will see how we called out Yamaha and Denon many years ago.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
Ratings
1,869 5 3
#15
I seriously doubt any receiver will be called to output the full bandwidth at the exact same time, especially in the tweeter range and most of the mid drivers. So, since that is not the case, more power is available to the lower bands.
And, I also doubt any serious demand on that lower band on a continuous basis.

Test bench testing is great; shows its potential under very harsh conditions.
Real world is not so demanding. Just at short time periods here and there.

And, certainly no such demands in Atmos that I know of. A few watts up there will go a long way.;)
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
Ratings
1,869 5 3
#17
... Same as other receiver will mean it at that much price it sounds as good (or bad) as a 400 dollar yamaha rx or pioneer? Or as good as NAD or Cambridge avr which are known for their musical sounds even as integrated surround avr...
Surprising!
Not surprising to many, just to some. ;)
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Ratings
4,298 21 9
#18
I seriously doubt any receiver will be called to output the full bandwidth at the exact same time, especially in the tweeter range and most of the mid drivers. So, since that is not the case, more power is available to the lower bands.
And, I also doubt any serious demand on that lower band on a continuous basis.

Test bench testing is great; shows its potential under very harsh conditions.
Real world is not so demanding. Just at short time periods here and there.

And, certainly no such demands in Atmos that I know of. A few watts up there will go a long way.;)
They don't and we talk about it here:
http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/the-all-channels-driven-acd-amplifier-test

However, that doesn't mean manufacturers shouldn't rate at least 2CH driven, full BW, at 8 ohms unclipped per the FTC standard that has been followed for decades. As we let accountability slide more and more for manufacturers, we see newer models with more amplifiers built in, higher power ratings, yet smaller power supplies and chassis weight.

I know we have Class D now which can help alleviate some of this, but most of the Class D amps built into AV receivers have their own limitations especially when driving 4 ohm loads above 2-3kHz. Again, full disclosure is needed to make informed purchasing decisions. Additionally, at least give the consumers preamp outputs to add more power if needed.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
Ratings
1,869 5 3
#19
They don't and we talk about it here:
http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/the-all-channels-driven-acd-amplifier-test

However, that doesn't mean manufacturers shouldn't rate at least 2CH driven, full BW, at 8 ohms unclipped per the FTC standard that has been followed for decades. As we let accountability slide more and more for manufacturers, we see newer models with more amplifiers built in, higher power ratings, yet smaller power supplies and chassis weight.

I know we have Class D now which can help alleviate some of this, but most of the Class D amps built into AV receivers have their own limitations especially when driving 4 ohm loads above 2-3kHz. Again, full disclosure is needed to make informed purchasing decisions. Additionally, at least give the consumers preamp outputs to add more power if needed.
Hopefully I didn't come across to accept this slide, just wanted to say a few words to a couple in this thread in general who may be worried, especially with Atmos.

No, I absolutely agree with you about the standards and the need for it. :)
 
C

Charlie Eco

Audiophyte
#20
The really helpfull information would be, the specs with all channels driven into 6 & 8 ohms, does anyone have information about this.
Thank you
 

newsletter
  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis