ONKYO Declines warranty don't buy it.

highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I sent my ONKYO to be repaired to ALLBRITE in houston, they shipped back, they didn't even touch it. and I heard repair centers are not fixing ONKYO's because they are unable to get their money.
Most of the reasons for not being able to collect for warranty work (in my experience) is due to not filling out paperwork in a timely manner, not filling it out correctly or because of trying to scam additional labor and parts reimbursement. Some companies are notoriously slow in paying, but if it's done properly, it will be paid. That said, some things won't be repaired by some companies (not manufacturers) because the parts cost too much for them to be left holding the bag, like flat screens. They aren't in the replacement parts business, so manufacturers will often charge a huge amount for a screen that's bad, assuming some dealers won't bother buying it, won't fill out the forms or the customer will just chuck the TV and buy a new one. I know a dealer who does over $70K/month with Sony alone. He also repairs a lot of Samsung and many other brands but the bulk are Sony and Samsung. A plasma screen for a 50" costs him roughly $5K, so it's in his interest to be prompt with his paperwork.

If a company just doesn't pay, not only should this be detailed for public reading but it should be the cause of a class action lawsuit, IMO.
 
G

gazelle

Audioholic Intern
Scratch that penny pincher company from my list of potential AVR vendors. If customer service sucks that bad, I have no interest in dealing with morons like that. Matter of fact, I have a friend looking for a new receiver and I did recommend him looking at the Onkyo. I'll point him to this thread and recommend not purchasing from them.

I've had yet to test the waters and hopefully I'll never have to but Yamaha seems to have a really good customer service reputation from what I've read.
I would recommend to your friend to go to BestBuy and get the receiver he wants with the GeekSquads Black Tie warranty for 4 years. So anything happens, they come to your house for 4 years and take care of it, if they have to take it they give you replacement, you never have to deal with the manufacturers like in this matter. I bought 60" plasma Pioneer PRO-151 for $3500 and the black tie costed me 500, so I would assume for 700 receiver it would cost no more than 100 bucks. very well worthily.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
I would recommend to your friend to go to BestBuy and get the receiver he wants with the GeekSquads Black Tie warranty for 4 years. So anything happens, they come to your house for 4 years and take care of it, if they have to take it they give you replacement, you never have to deal with the manufacturers like in this matter. I bought 60" plasma Pioneer PRO-151 for $3500 and the black tie costed me 500, so I would assume for 700 receiver it would cost no more than 100 bucks. very well worthily.
You pay a premium for that and BestBuy charges outrageous prices on most things and Amazon is noted as having excellent service. I tell you this stinks. I'm saddened to see the decline of Onkyo. Square Trade offers insurance on just about anything. But I think the best bet is to buy products that are tested. IOTW never buy new. Buy after a year or so of the product being out there.
 
G

gazelle

Audioholic Intern
So am I to assume you bought the Pioneer 2 months ago because of this?
Yep. I got a Pioneer Elite VSX-23TXH from ABT for 689 shipped. They are Authorized and I just checked my receipt there is no company name listed ! YAY ! I don't think pioneer elite series would have stupid fine prints like that but still worth checking it. I think its really a good idea to get it thru best buy with geeksquad black tie protection. They simply replace it if it can't be fixed.
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
The card used has the company name right under my name, but the thing is the company is mine, so every card that I use has my name and my company name on it. I buy stuff for myself or for the company, using the same card. I keep my book strait and thats nobodys business. I don't think I have to send them copy of my QuickBooks data to show it was under the "shareholder distribution expense account" I mean this is a nasty trick to not honor the warranty.
I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't think Onkyo has done anything wrong in this situation. You have a customer who bought a product using a corporate credit card and shipping it to a corporate address- under what circumstances are they supposed to believe that it was purchased for personal usage?? Onkyo easily meets the burden of proof that this product was being commercially (Based on these facts) and I cannot imagine any lawyer that would advise you otherwise.

It is the consumer's responsibility to understand the warranty coverage that a company provides for their product. I'm willing to bet that if you check the original paperwork that came with the AVR, it would clearly state their policy for a 90 day warranty for commercial purposes. Since in this case the item was bought with a company card and shipped to that same company, Onkyo is on very solid footing to claim that it falls under commercial usage.

I cannot see any concrete evidence that you could have that would prove that the item was purchased for personal usage. This is not a dirty trick pulled by Onkyo- this is a reasonable business practice.

I know many small business owners who use their corporate cards for personal items (including my father-in-law), but I still think its a terrible practice. There are business expenses and there are personal expenses- and they need to be kept separate. While its easier to do this with accounting entries, it allows for no separation of the business from yourself, which in this case is going to end up screwing you over.

On another note, as an Onkyo user for almost 9 years (and two different models), I have had zero problems with their customer service. One of my receivers was within warranty and the front display just blew out on me- I contacted CS who directed me to an authorized dealer, and the item was fixed free of charge within 5 days. Obviously this is anecdotal only to me, but I thought I'd throw a positive story out there to balance things a bit.
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
Not yet. I am thinking about it tho. They should make it clear these stupid policies.
Just a follow-on, this policy is made very clear in Onkyo's warranty information listed on their website. Here's the link: http://www.us.onkyo.com/warranty.cfm.

Number 14 under the exclusion list:

Products used continuously or for commercial applications. Onkyo products are intended for consumer use and are not designed for continuous or commercial use. In the event that the products concerned have been used commercially or continuously, the warranty period is limited to 90 days from the date of purchase.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
I'm not a tax genius but perhaps you can depreciate this receiver or count as a loss against your business since it's been stated to be commercial. I know I've depreciated laptops before.
 
G

gazelle

Audioholic Intern
no way he wins. He bought it with the company card therefore it's a commercial product. I'd see it that way too.

His best bet is to keep barking. Eventually he might get his repairs done.
I won't win the game but I will win the hearts by letting know E-V-E-R-Y possible ONKYO buyer about my experience. We'll see whose gonna lose more. When I get a chance I will make a website regarding all this experience. They will endup changing their policy. "CONTINUOUS USE" thats a very very broad wording. And what would not be considered "CONTINUOUS USE" here is the policy under EXCLUSIONS number 14.

EXCLUSIONS:
IF YOU PURCHASE AN ONKYO PRODUCT FROM AN UNAUTHORIZED DEALER, YOUR ONKYO WARRANTY WILL NOT BE VALID, please use our authorized dealer locator.
This Warranty does not apply with respect to the following:
1. Defects or damage caused by accident, fire, flood, lightning or other acts of God.
2. Defects or damage caused by abuse, misuse, negligence or failure to observe the instructions contained in the manual furnished at the time of original purchase.
3. Damage caused during shipment or handling.
4. Products purchased from anyone other than Onkyo or an Onkyo Authorized Dealer. If you are uncertain as to whether a dealer is authorized, please contact Onkyo's Customer Relations Department or check the Dealer and Service Locator.
5. Products that have had their serial numbers altered or removed.
6. Products purchased in "AS IS" condition.
7. Products that have been altered or repaired by anyone other than Onkyo or an Onkyo authorized service station in a manner that has affected their performance, stability or reliability.
8. Accessories attached to or to be used with Onkyo products, such as antennas, batteries, cables, etc.
9. Packing materials and cosmetic items.
10. Parts which have prescribed useful lives dependent upon the degree of their use, such as styli, cassette heads, idler wheels, etc.
11. Installation and removal of Onkyo products.
12. Maintenance, cleaning or periodic check-ups.
13. Adjustments or alterations required for compatibility with conditions pertaining to foreign countries.
14. Products used continuously or for commercial applications. Onkyo products are intended for consumer use and are not designed for continuous or commercial use. In the event that the products concerned have been used commercially or continuously, the warranty period is limited to 90 days from the date of purchase.
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
I'm not a tax genius but perhaps you can depreciate this receiver or count as a loss against your business since it's been stated to be commercial. I know I've depreciated laptops before.
If it was actually a business purchase the owner would have been depreciating the item from the start and receiving a tax credit each year for the amount of the depreciation. In this case, as long as the asset was purchased in 2009 you could add it to your books as a business asset and then write-down the entire value of the asset within the same year. This should allow you to offset some income and receive a tax benefit.
 
G

gazelle

Audioholic Intern
Most of the reasons for not being able to collect for warranty work (in my experience) is due to not filling out paperwork in a timely manner, not filling it out correctly or because of trying to scam additional labor and parts reimbursement. Some companies are notoriously slow in paying, but if it's done properly, it will be paid. That said, some things won't be repaired by some companies (not manufacturers) because the parts cost too much for them to be left holding the bag, like flat screens. They aren't in the replacement parts business, so manufacturers will often charge a huge amount for a screen that's bad, assuming some dealers won't bother buying it, won't fill out the forms or the customer will just chuck the TV and buy a new one. I know a dealer who does over $70K/month with Sony alone. He also repairs a lot of Samsung and many other brands but the bulk are Sony and Samsung. A plasma screen for a 50" costs him roughly $5K, so it's in his interest to be prompt with his paperwork.

If a company just doesn't pay, not only should this be detailed for public reading but it should be the cause of a class action lawsuit, IMO.
I totally agree. I wish I was an old retiree with nothing else to do to pursue this kind of stuff for a better world.

"PAYING WITH BUSINESS CREDIT CARD, CONTINUOUS USE IS AN ONKYO"S EXCLUSION FOR WARRANTY" I'm gonna make this my signature.
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
I won't win the game but I will win the hearts by letting know E-V-E-R-Y possible ONKYO buyer about my experience. We'll see whose gonna lose more. When I get a chance I will make a website regarding all this experience. They will endup changing their policy.
I wish you luck with that, but I should point out that after doing a very quick search, the following companies have the exact same clause in their warranty policies about usage of commercial products:

Harman Kardon
Yamaha
Pioneer
Oppo
Infinity

These were the first 5 companies that popped into my head... but it seems quite common that for home electronics products, these companies have very limited warranties for commercial usage.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Just a follow-on, this policy is made very clear in Onkyo's warranty information listed on their website. Here's the link: http://www.us.onkyo.com/warranty.cfm.

Number 14 under the exclusion list:

Products used continuously or for commercial applications. Onkyo products are intended for consumer use and are not designed for continuous or commercial use. In the event that the products concerned have been used commercially or continuously, the warranty period is limited to 90 days from the date of purchase.
This says nothing about purchasing on a Credit Card, Check, or Cash. In it's most basic form we are simply talking about payment. Not use.

Onkyo would have to have something more. Citing the payment method or ship to is just circumstantial. Since the service center declined to look at it, Onkyo doesn't even have the say so of a qualified bench tech as to the units condition.

When in small claims you don't need preponderance of the evidence. Just 51% of the mindshare of the judge/magistrate presiding over the proceedings. All you need to do is bring a witness that has come over for a home movie to say they they indeed have seen your setup in home.

File small claims. Ask for court costs. Small claims is most likely $35. Do your research. Read through Onkyo's warranty disclaimer. Bring your CC statements, bring a witness. Do you have pics of it in your house?

Show where you have ordered other household items on your business CC. Show that they are indeed in the house. Again you only need 51% of the judges mindshare in this.
 
G

gazelle

Audioholic Intern
If it was actually a business purchase the owner would have been depreciating the item from the start and receiving a tax credit each year for the amount of the depreciation. In this case, as long as the asset was purchased in 2009 you could add it to your books as a business asset and then write-down the entire value of the asset within the same year. This should allow you to offset some income and receive a tax benefit.
Bought it in 2008. My biggest issue is not a dollar loss, unfairness and stupidity of the situation. We deserve better man. we deserve better. Not a little fine print states a BS like that.. Thats why I will be writing it all over the internet.

my new siganture.
"PAYING WITH BUSINESS CREDIT CARD, CONTINUOUS USE IS AN ONKYO"S EXCLUSION FOR WARRANTY"
 
G

gazelle

Audioholic Intern
I wish you luck with that, but I should point out that after doing a very quick search, the following companies have the exact same clause in their warranty policies about usage of commercial products:

Harman Kardon
Yamaha
Pioneer
Oppo
Infinity

These were the first 5 companies that popped into my head... but it seems quite common that for home electronics products, these companies have very limited warranties for commercial usage.
I appreciate that research. That brings up a very good point for all of us then doesn't it? They can decline all your warranty work because its billed to your company. Watch it at the future. Well I will.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Think about it this way:

It's the courts opinion, not Onkyos' that counts. BOTTOM LINE.

Does ANYONE really think that a court would find it not reasonable for someone to receive a package at work vs home so they could take personal possession of the item vs letting it sit on a porch all day?

I have been in small claims 7 times in 11 years and can tell you that you will most likely have a sympathetic ear.

That and the fact the Onkyo is required by law to hire an attorney to represent them will exert pressure on them to give you back your $$. Their cost on a receiver is less than the 3 hours they are going to have to pay an attorney.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
So the last clause... of continous use.. even if that's in a home environment? So what they are standing behind?
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
So the last clause... of continous use.. even if that's in a home environment? So what they are standing behind?
It doesn't matter in this scenario so far due to the fact the Onkyo has declined to even bench the unit. Onkyo had their chance to bite at the apple and they didn't. Courts don't look to kindly on that.

Usually you don't get a 2nd bite.
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
I wish you luck with that, but I should point out that after doing a very quick search, the following companies have the exact same clause in their warranty policies about usage of commercial products:

Harman Kardon
Yamaha
Pioneer
Oppo
Infinity
I assume you meant "consumer products" and you were looking at specific units. Yamaha at minimum also sells pro/commercial gear (I believe all separates).
 
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