Trell

Trell

Audioholic General
There is still a bit of a premium, but honestly it's not that much if you're looking at a top tier LCD.

No, you aren't going to get a 55" OLED for $500 or whatever insane price the cheap LCDs go for, but people don't realize those cheap LCD tv's are probably using a very old panel someone found in a warehouse. Sure, they work, but PQ isn't going to be very good.
In my EU style living room (small :) ) we fairly often watch at an angle fairly close by, which I did not buy LCD many years ago. OLED, for me, just needs to have better motion handling.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
No, you aren't going to get a 55" OLED for $500 or whatever insane price the cheap LCDs go for, but people don't realize those cheap LCD tv's are probably using a very old panel someone found in a warehouse. Sure, they work, but PQ isn't going to be very good.
I will say that I got a 58" LCD for a guest room for under $300 from Walmart. The quality is SHOCKINGLY GOOD. This becomes a matter of expectation, and it's not a 'main family room TV' level of display. But, for a guest room, kids area, or other location it's amazing. If you are doing a basement setup with a lot of TVs, then something like this may be a heck of a direction to go. So, PQ isn't 'great', but it certainly is quite good. I don't do much after dark viewing on it and I don't watch movies on it. Mostly just TV shows and such while I'm folding clothes. But, it's really amazingly good for the money, while still not being amazing. I'm more concerned about longevity than image quality, because image quality I am perfectly happy with. (Hisense Roku TV) - Oh, and it has Roku.

But, yes, my plasma kills it for shadow details and black levels. At some point, I expect I will have a OLED or two kicking around my house as well. I mean, how many TVs do I really need?
 
jliedeka

jliedeka

Audioholic General
One thing that gets lost in these discussions is that TVs are really pretty good these days. We can nitpick about color accuracy, shadow detail, motion, etc. Except for the lower tier TVs, almost all are pretty good in most use cases.
 
jliedeka

jliedeka

Audioholic General
That said, I'm still not ready to move on from my plasma until I'm sure I'm getting an upgrade.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Chief
One thing that gets lost in these discussions is that TVs are really pretty good these days. We can nitpick about color accuracy, shadow detail, motion, etc. Except for the lower tier TVs, almost all are pretty good in most use cases.
Yeah, and your kids can't hurt them by passing magnets in front of them to show their friends the changing colors. Our dad would get so pissed at us.:p
 
T

TechToys2

Junior Audioholic
So I'm thinking seriously about an OLED, but it seems I have an obstacle. For a number of reasons I don't want to wall mount a television and given the location of my center channel speaker and the short height of the stands that come with the new TVs, the speaker will blick the lower part of the TV. I was looking at the LG OLEDS and unless I'm mistaken there is no place to attach one of the standard VESA adjustable stands that are available so I could raise the up several inches (I need around 7 inches).

Anyone else face this issue and found a resolution?
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
So I'm thinking seriously about an OLED, but it seems I have an obstacle. For a number of reasons I don't want to wall mount a television and given the location of my center channel speaker and the short height of the stands that come with the new TVs, the speaker will blick the lower part of the TV. I was looking at the LG OLEDS and unless I'm mistaken there is no place to attach one of the standard VESA adjustable stands that are available so I could raise the up several inches (I need around 7 inches).

Anyone else face this issue and found a resolution?
I would get a CX series and use the standard 300x200 VESA pattern on the back...
 
T

TechToys2

Junior Audioholic
I would get a CX series and use the standard 300x200 VESA pattern on the back...
So I guess any standard VESA stand should work with this set? I thought it might be a problem given the position with the electronics at the bottom, but I see now in the specs that the 300 x 200 VESA mount works as you say. Thanks.
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic Chief
Seems like auditor has some bias against OLED for some odd reason.

I will offer a first-hand experience on OLED vs. black levels and shadow details.

Remember one of the last episodes of Game of Thrones where the entire episode was very dark scenes, and so many viewers complained that they just could not see anything for the entire episode? Well, no complaints from me when viewing it on 65" LG OLED. Yes, it was dark, yes I could still see every bit of the action!
I don't have a bias, I own OLED. So I know from experience, black crush and near black has been an ongoing issue for OLED. Each year they have gotten incrementally better. However, every OLED that I've seen, even the A9G, which is probably the best OLED, has black crush.
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic Chief
There is actually not a ton of talk about this. There was a video I saw about LG out of the box needing some time to self-calibrate. There is also some talk about a firmware patch which fixed black crush as an issue.

There is little talk about actual black crush being a serious issue with OLED. Unlike blooming, which anyone can see rather easily on a regular basis.
There is also, apparently, a discussion on AVS about this being an issue and how it was resolved by LG.

OLED is capable of excellent black levels. The best since the best plasma displays. But, there is very little actual fact supporting black crush as an actual issue of the technology vs. an issue with a specific display/processing setup from the manufacturer.

There are tons of very high-level owners who would be complaining and this would be front level news and information.
Here's a great video that brings it up, discusses it, then talks about how the issue was entirely resolved by someone who does care a great deal about video quality:
If you listen to people like Vicent Teoh (HDTV), Fomo on Tech, they always point out black crush and near black performance on OLED. Yes, the blacks of OLED are great, OLED still has, to me, a better picture than LED. However, that flaw is problematic. OLED manufacturers are trying to improve in that area because many customers have complained about black crush and sometimes lack of shadow detail.

Please don't pay attention to some of those YouTubers, they're not cinephiles, that mostly play to the gaming community. Some of them are paid shills and influencers, they just want you to buy from Amazon or Best Buy a CX LG OLED so they can get some commission.

The one thing about Plasmas like the Panasonic VT/ZT and Pioneer Kuro (still have my Kuro), they were capable of deep blacks while maintaining shadow detail (near black), OLED has yet to accomplish that.

Vicent and other technology-savvy reviewers have already shown and demonstrated how OLED struggle with near black, they have shown this on test patterns. So black crush and near black performance is real. Even LEDs that have tried to get deeper blacks, while attempting do so many times end crushing blacks, that is the case, from many reports, with the 2020 TCL 635 and the Q9FN from 2018, their local dimming algorithm was considered too aggressive.
 
jliedeka

jliedeka

Audioholic General
Is black crush with OLED a problem with SDR as well or only with HDR? It seems to me that the finer gradations of black level in HDR would be harder to handle.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
So I guess any standard VESA stand should work with this set? I thought it might be a problem given the position with the electronics at the bottom, but I see now in the specs that the 300 x 200 VESA mount works as you say. Thanks.
As long as you get a mount which can handle that size. VESA pretty much just locks the mounting pattern into increments of mm. But, many monitor mounts are designed for 75x75 or 100x100 sizing and can't handle larger displays. Others can only do 200x200 or larger sizes. So, be aware of the specifications of what you are buying.

That said, most mounts designed for a 'TV', will work fine with almost every standard TV on the market. I've yet to own a mount which hasn't worked for the application I've purchased it for. From cheap $20 mounts on Amazon to nice $600 mounts from Chief.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Spartan
I don't have a bias, I own OLED. So I know from experience, black crush and near black has been an ongoing issue for OLED. Each year they have gotten incrementally better. However, every OLED that I've seen, even the A9G, which is probably the best OLED, has black crush.
And, what is your direct experience with Burn-In that you said is so problematic (post #7).

My direct experience says Burn In is no problem (for me at least). I'm not even sure that I know what Black Crush is, so I'm not that worried about it.

At the end of the day, I will and have chosen OLED over any of the current techs on the market.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Is black crush with OLED a problem with SDR as well or only with HDR? It seems to me that the finer gradations of black level in HDR would be harder to handle.
I would strongly recommend that you specifically watch videos that get into the specifics. The claims of the CX from proper reviewers just seems to call it out as about as good as it gets without going to a $10,000+ reference display.


I haven't dug much into these more technical videos as I don't have full on calibration equipment, but I love how deep they do get if you really want a real answer.
Mostly though, they say that any black crush that appears is mostly due to when there is added processing by LG and that it can potentially be corrected simply through firmware updates. They didn't actually talk about black crush being an actual problem at all.

Linus Tech Tips, tested the CX against a 360hz (I believe) gaming monitor and used a ultra high frame rate camera to show just how much faster the pixel response (on/off) was with the CX vs. the LCD. Linus gets into it pretty significantly in this video. He's using a RTX3080 or 3090 I'm sure for this testing...

 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic Chief
And, what is your direct experience with Burn-In that you said is so problematic (post #7).

My direct experience says Burn In is no problem (for me at least). I'm not even sure that I know what Black Crush is, so I'm not that worried about it.

At the end of the day, I will and have chosen OLED over any of the current techs on the market.
Black crush is simply a lack of details in dark or near black. Any display technology can crush blacks. However, I have seen it on prevalently on OLED displays, although they are incrementally getting a tad better. OLEDS, being self emissive can turn the pixel completely off, that's why they have great blacks. However, when a scene calls for a shade just above black is where some OLED sets have problems.
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic Chief
I would strongly recommend that you specifically watch videos that get into the specifics. The claims of the CX from proper reviewers just seems to call it out as about as good as it gets without going to a $10,000+ reference display.


I haven't dug much into these more technical videos as I don't have full on calibration equipment, but I love how deep they do get if you really want a real answer.
Mostly though, they say that any black crush that appears is mostly due to when there is added processing by LG and that it can potentially be corrected simply through firmware updates. They didn't actually talk about black crush being an actual problem at all.

Linus Tech Tips, tested the CX against a 360hz (I believe) gaming monitor and used a ultra high frame rate camera to show just how much faster the pixel response (on/off) was with the CX vs. the LCD. Linus gets into it pretty significantly in this video. He's using a RTX3080 or 3090 I'm sure for this testing...

A lot Youtube reviewers are marketers and influencers, they can't really criticize the displays or they won't get a commission, so you have to be careful taking their word. With that said, Vincent Teoh in other comparison videos have discussed black crush or near black issues with LG OLED, although I agree they don't harp on it. A lack of shadow detail is one my pet peeves, that is what I see with OLED displays.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
I would strongly recommend that you specifically watch videos that get into the specifics. The claims of the CX from proper reviewers just seems to call it out as about as good as it gets without going to a $10,000+ reference display.


I haven't dug much into these more technical videos as I don't have full on calibration equipment, but I love how deep they do get if you really want a real answer.
Mostly though, they say that any black crush that appears is mostly due to when there is added processing by LG and that it can potentially be corrected simply through firmware updates. They didn't actually talk about black crush being an actual problem at all.

Linus Tech Tips, tested the CX against a 360hz (I believe) gaming monitor and used a ultra high frame rate camera to show just how much faster the pixel response (on/off) was with the CX vs. the LCD. Linus gets into it pretty significantly in this video. He's using a RTX3080 or 3090 I'm sure for this testing...

Guess I found out what my next monitor will be. I do love my ultrawide though...
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic Chief
Please play close attention to FOMO's explanation of black crush and why it happens on both FALD LEDs and OLEDs.

 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Chief
I kept waiting for him to break out into some Fosse choreography. What a waste of a hat and gloves.:confused:
 

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