Ohio Democrat proposes 100% tax

[10010011]

I look at it very differently. Our military is at war, and it exerts pressure on global oil demand.

I find it intresting how you say Our military is at war like since you are not part of teh militry it is of no concern to you. Our Country is at war not just our military.

First of all, you cant blame big-oil for the lack of supply, because lordy knows, Big Oil would certainly love to build more domesting refining facitilities, but they're surely not alowed to build additional big, dirty, and polluting refineries here in the USA. That is strictly verboten!!

Is it really forbidden, or are you just making things up again? I belive it's more like oil companies put their big, dirty, and polluting refineries (as you put it) out at sea so they can dump their grabage directly into the sea when no one is watching.

why wouldn’t oil companies stand to earn more? What’s so excessive about earning a measly 8-10% return?
Record profits??? Bah humbug!!

I live in what the oil companies call a "Spot Market". Gas prices are 10 to 15 cents higher a gallon here than anywhere else in our state. Get this, there are three oil refineries within 50 miles of my town. There have been state investigaions and basically the only explanation we have got from the oil companies for why they charge more for gas here is "Because we do".

They may call it a "spot market" but it sure seems like price fixing to me.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

True, profit margains aren't static in any industry, but when you have a monopoly, they're easier to set. I totally disagree the supply chain can barely keep up. If that were the case, OPEC wouldn't have slowed production along with non OPEC countries. Don't you see, they are the ones creating the demand by adjusting the supply.

Are you trying to suggest that US oil companies are a monopoly? If so, that couldnt be further from the truth. Since we have no decision making control over OPEC nations, I suggest that we spend less time worrying about what is out of our control, and more about what we can control. IE.... our own oil refining & drilling capabilities here at home. We could be doing so much more here at home, but we refuse to do so as a nation. We have vast resources that continue to go untapped. Just for an example, if the US expanded oil production significantly, the market supply would increase, and the global oil prices would drop. It's all simple Econ 101, my friend. Our biggest leverage against OPEC is our own contribution to the supply chain. If some wish to buy duracell powered cars.... great!! go for it!! Meanwhile, I'm sticking with gas, and I want to see our nation produce more of it

So you're saying we should bend over and grab out ankles?

For those against US expansion of oil production capibilities and taking care of business here at home, YES...absolutely. Bend over, grab-em, and smile, because they are part of the problem.

The US can't compete in producing most items we import. So why should we set up new wells? Workers will just form unions, and demand $28 an hour with full benefits/pensions. Our production of steel in the US cannot compete with far east steel.

We're not talking about 'most' items. We're talking about oil, and I disagree. The more oil we can produce on our own, the less our dependence on OPEC, and the better off we will be. At the end of the day....... the more we have to outsource, the higher our gas prices.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

Oh can you show me the metric that says this?

Look it up. It's not as if oil company profit margins are a secret.

So you are against a tax(I am not saying I am for it) that would help the government care for its people/reduce debt because it will hurt the little guy. On the other hand you have no problem with the oil companies cashing in on these same little guys because supply is tight as a direct result of a war started by this administration.



My point is your views are hypocritical and do nothing to protect the people.

Socialist welfare societies(like several European countries) subscribe heavily to income redistribution through taxation to provide extensive social welfare programs for the poor, and their entire nation & economy is poorer because of it. In the end, all they get are more poor & unemployed workers living off the system!! France & Germany, and several European countries make excellent examples!!

The best way to help the little guy is to provide positive economic conditions that entice entrepreneurs to risk their capital on business investment.
(Liberal interpretation=tax cuts for the rich)
The entrepreneurial risking of capital is what creates products, services, JOBS, and makes our economy GO! The higher the taxes, the more the risk, and the less they’ll invest. The end result will be less production, and fewer jobs. It’s simple economics. The ‘above’ phenomenon, is what pulled us out of the recession that began in ’99 after the tech-boom popped, and why the Bush tax cuts have resulted in a thriving economy, record tax revenues, & low unemployment rates that we currently enjoy. Unfortunately, the socialist mind cannot comprehend how tax cuts can result in higher tax revenues, more jobs, and fewer poor that require government support.

As for the gas tax? How is paying $4,5, or $6/gallon going to help anyone? Do you understand the effect this has on the economy, production, unemployment rates etc, etc? How is asking the poor working class to pay more at the pump going to help them? With all of the recent pain at the pump ‘sob stories’ flooding the news airwaves, do you really want the poor working class to pay MORE at the pump? Do you really want to see more sob stories depicting individuals hocking family heirlooms at pawn shops for a tank of gas on the evening news? If we institute gas penalty taxes like Europe has, and we're forced to pay what they do for gas.... everybody will be a loser. The end result of higher taxes always translates into more poor living off the system.

How is my position hypocritical? IMO, socialist democrat economic policy is the real hypocrisy, because the only thing it achieves is creating more poor people who depend on government assistance. Socialist economic policy only creates the need for more assistance.
If you really want to help the little guy, we must put them to work!

I hope that helps

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Buckeye_Nut: Are you trying to suggest that US oil companies are a monopoly? If so, that couldnt be further from the truth. Since we have no decision making control over OPEC nations, I suggest that we spend less time worrying about what is out of our control, and more about what we can control.

No, I'm talking about OPEC, and countries they've met with recently - Canada, Russia, South America. They've all agreed how to control the supply. Whose to say if we increased production, big oil here wouldn't do the same? It's all about maximizing shareholder equity, and not the consumer. Bill Gates is not interested in giving away Windows Vista.

...if the US expanded oil production significantly, the market supply would increase, and the global oil prices would drop. It's all simple Econ 101, my friend. Our biggest leverage against OPEC is our own contribution to the supply chain. If some wish to buy duracell powered cars.... great!! go for it!! Meanwhile, I'm sticking with gas, and I want to see our nation produce more of it

You are speaking of Gull Island and Prudhoe Bay, Alaska, correct? I have no problem with running the pipeline at full capacity. There are already wells that have been tapped, and capped off to supposedly save the caribou. I know - it turns out, that the caribou do better near the pipeline because of added protection.

You blame the democrats for these decisions. I blame the lobbyists. There are plenty of democrats that would love to turn on those valves again.

 

[ironlung]

I think the R vs. D threads are fun.

The old cliche applys "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome." or however it goes.

I wish people would vote for some other party. ANY PARTY! Libertarian, green, free pot party....whaterver. It's NOT a two party system as much as 'they' want you to think stepping outside of R or D wastes your vote.

There are only minor differences between the two and most are the NON issues of guns, abortions, drugs etc. They both agree to keep all power and money for themselves.


I don't think a 100% tax is that far off of what it is now. I use quicken to add up how much tax I pay. It was over 65% and I'm not in the higest tax bracket. Also I could only add up what I could research. The tax load on manufacturers built into MSRP is tough to calculate. Using gas as an example I can find out that the city, county and state get a taste out of every gallon so gas is $2.00 a gallon plus tax to get it up to $3.50. The $2.00 that Amoco gets has all the raw material, processing and transporting with some profit for Amoco or whoever. The $2.00 also includes all the tax, EPA this and thats, property taxes, FICA matching for it's employees, etc that Amoco pays. The numbers I used are made up but I think you get my point.

If you can add up 65 + percent thats out in the open the hidden stuff probably adds another 10-20. 80% is not that far from 100%. I think most in DC agree that Joe Average is not qualified to decide what to do with his money. One proposed fix to SS is like a mandatory 401k that the gov controls distribution on.


Whatever you do DON'T vote R or D your not doing anyone a favor.

Let me have it,
Ironlung----allowed to retire at 72

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

I find it intresting how you say Our military is at war like since you are not part of teh militry it is of no concern to you. Our Country is at war not just our military.

Having spent 6 years in the armed forces many moons ago, I can call it whatever I want
As american citizens.... it is, in fact, 'our' military.

Is it really forbidden, or are you just making things up again?

If you can provide examples where I have made anything up, please do so. It is a fact that the US has not built a single new oil refinery in more than 3 decades.

I live in what the oil companies call a "Spot Market". Gas prices are 10 to 15 cents higher a gallon here than anywhere else in our state. Get this, there are three oil refineries within 50 miles of my town.
They may call it a "spot market" but it sure seems like price fixing to me.

Local gas prices are always dictated by local taxes. Are you guys really that uninformed?

PLEASE tell me you are not!!

That's why if you try to fill your tank in Chicago, it will always cost significantly more than if you were somewhere outside of the city limits, and prices will drop further once you leave Cook County. The same same can be said for anywhere.....

:shaking head:

These responses leave me dumbfounded, and quite disappointed.....

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

I think the R vs. D threads are fun.

Yep......

 

[10010011]

Local gas prices are always dictated by local taxes. Are you guys really that uninformed?

PLEASE tell me you are not!!

I know its typical for you rightwingnuts to blame Taxes for all of socities ills but read this artical and you will see that is has NOTHING TO DO WITH LOCAL TAXES and everything to do with wringing every last cent of profit out of the consumer.

Why area's gas is highest in the state

Here are a few choice quotes just to get you started.

Refiners, not retailers, are responsible for the high price of gasoline in Whatcom County.

At least that's what the retailers say.

And the refiners? They're not saying much.

"As a matter of company policy, we just don't discuss pricing," said Laura Campbell, a ConocoPhillips spokeswoman in Houston.

Wayne Harrington, who owned and operated Chevron stations in Bellingham for 25 years before he sold them in 1999, said that was the same answer the oil companies used to give him, when he asked why Whatcom County gas retailers were charged a higher wholesale price than retailers elsewhere.

"That's a question I often asked the oil companies," Harrington said. "Why are we being charged more? They were somewhat evasive."

Bill Kidd, governmental affairs director for BP Cherry Point, did not return calls seeking comment.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

You blame the democrats for these decisions. I blame the lobbyists. There are plenty of democrats that would love to turn on those valves again.

I beg to differ. Dont blame the lobbyists..... blame the party and THEIR voting record. The democrat voting record is the only thing that matters. Elected officials vote the way they do because THEY need the vote.

That is to be expected, because if the Dems didnt cater to their special interest groups, they'd never win another election.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

1,

Local gas prices always boil down to local politics & taxes.
(unless you live in a remote area, an island, etc, etc)

So you're trying to prove your point by citing a local newspaper report written by a small town reporter angry about gas prices in your small town? Have you ever considered the source? I suspect the article was written by a bleeding heart liberal reporter who could never admit taxes could be the cause of any problem.

There is, no doubt, a valid reason why your small town in NW washington suffers from high gas prices, but from what I can tell...... I dont think the facts of the matter have been revealed in your local town paper.

Why is it that 'blue counties' always seem to pay higher gas prices?

I have a sneaky feeling that the "majority" of your town & county elected government are elected democrats. Please post a link showing party affiliation of your elected local city and county government, and we'll go from there......LOL

I'll bet the local majority bleeds blue.

 

[Biscokid]

because if the Dems didnt cater to their special interest groups, they'd never win another election.

Every post shows the blinders more and more. Special intrest groups? Lets talk about the king of all special intrest groups...the religious right. Who caters to them????? Do you really believe that the Dems are the only ones to cater to these people?

 

[10010011]

So you're trying to prove your point by citing a local newspaper report written by a small town reporter angry about gas prices in your small town? Have you ever considered the source? I suspect the article was written by a bleeding heart liberal reporter who could never admit taxes could be the cause of any problem.

Um... The city of Bellingham does NOT add any taxes to gas prices! Our state has high gasoline taxes, to help make up for not having a state income tax. That explains the higher than national average gas prices state wide, but it does NOT explain why we have the highest as prices in the state, when we have two gas refineries right in the same county.

Why is it that 'blue counties' always seem to pay higher gas prices?

I don't know, but King County (Seattle) does not seem to be paying higher than state average prices and that is a "blue" county.

I have a sneaky feeling that the "majority" of your town & county elected government are elected democrats. Please post a link showing party affiliation of your elected local city and county government, and we'll go from there......LOL

Well let me put on my Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie and I will check into that.

But while we are on the conspiracy theory topic. The local conspiracy theory is that we are being punished by the refineries because about ten years ago the gas pipeline that runs from the BP refinery through our town ruptured spilling hundreds of thousands of gallons of gasoline in to a creek. Three people were killed, two of then children as the gas caught fire. (have you ever seen a two mile long fire burning in the center of your town?) Well our local government had the audacity to force the owners of the pipeline to pay for the clean up. The pipeline company's attitude was "Well it's your town that got messed up so you should have to pay for the clean up yourself" Thats big business at it finest.
Olympic Pipe Line accident in Bellingham

 

[The Dukester]

Just my opinion

From what I can gather from watching and reading news stories, the reason no new refineries are being built here is because they have been the least profitable and in fact a losing venture for the oil companies the last number of years. Couple that with the restrictions the EPA, etc put on them and it's no wonder they aren't building them left and right. As most have mentioned, oil is big business and it does not take a degree in Economics to figure out if you have a loser, you don't go sinking more money into it.

To me, the long term solution is alternative fuels as well as engines. Batteries won't cut it, I'm afraid. Did someone say Golf? That's a sport I enjoy playing, not a means of transportation. I'll keep my big cars, motorcycles and trucks with their big engines, thank you. Yeah, they can stuff a lot of folks into a small car in Asia. Many of them also live in about a 3' x 2' space with a light in it. Good for them if they enjoy it, but I'll also keep my big house with my big stereo and HT, thank you.

As resourceful and ingenious as Americans have always been, I'm sure we could come up with many viable alternatives. I'm afraid that as long as big oil and big politics are around, however, that many of these will be stifled. E85 seems like a good alternative at first, but I'm not so sure anymore. We should be able to come up with a fuel made from some kind of renewable resource, however. At least with fuel from corn, or sugar cane, etc, we could stop paying farmers to NOT grow stuff and let them grow crops we could turn into fuel.

I don't believe that raising the price of gas will solve the problem. People that can afford it will still keep on wasting it and others will steal, go on welfare or some other govt program to subsidize it to obtain it, or in some cases, just do without. Curtailing the availability of it will get folks on the bandwagon to come up with an alternative, not higher prices. I know, I know, it's all about supply and demand. Say what you want but if gas were 25 cents a gallon what difference would it make if there were none or little to buy? I remember the oil crises of '74 and '79. For me, where I lived, the '74 was worse. Much longer lines to get it and many more stations limiting the amount you could get. THAT slowed people down on consumption by the various methods rather than the price they had to pay per gallon.

I drive big cars because I like them. I drive a full size truck because I need to. I have a fast car because I love to go fast on occasion, sometimes at the track. With the exception of the fast car at times, I drive as easy as I can to get the best mileage I can out of them, but I will always have big 'uns.

As far as how you vote, well, this is still America. Thank God you live here and have the right to vote. I say vote your conscience. That's all you can do, except campaign for your person or party, but at least vote! One thing that gripes me is folks that complain about the way things go in Washington and yet they never vote. Losers!

 

[billy p]

A well stated opinion without the bias of political preference.

 

[Audioholics]

He's right, you know.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Every post shows the blinders more and more. Special intrest groups? Lets talk about the king of all special intrest groups...the religious right. Who caters to them????? Do you really believe that the Dems are the only ones to cater to these people?

You got that right. And don't forget, we've got a quarter trillion dollars in a war and 2500 lost soldiers. The latest from USA Today...

Two of the Pentagon's most senior generals conceded to Congress on Thursday that the surge in sectarian violence in Baghdad in recent weeks means Iraq may descend into civil war.

If peace doesn't pan out in Iraq, Bush will never hear the end of it - from either side of the fence.

http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

Oh and the Buckeyes will be 7-4 next year.

LOL.... The bucks are favorites to begin the season #1, so I think those who follow the sport disagree. I personally hope they dont begin as number 1 because it's a jinx. Anything in the top 5 will do. What do you know about college football anyway?? Teams are reverting back to a 12 game season this year, so I feel fairly confident your prediction is wrong.

Who has Ohio State #1 other than perhaps some "local Ohio State experts"? Most preason picks I see have the Buckeyes #4 (which is where they finished last year). 4th: I do more than "follow" the sport.

Apparently you have learned very little in your pursuit of CFB knowledge.
LOL

Coming from a guy who didnt know CFB teams will play a 12 game regular season schedule in '06, or that OSU has been the projected to claim the preseason #1 spot by most CFB writers all summer......you're lack of CFB knowldedge is quite obvious. When the official pre-season rankings were released last weekend, they only told me what I already knew.........

OSU= #1.

I wish you were right, because I would have preferred to be ranked somewhere else in the top-5. Unfortunately for me, I know everything, and I am never wrong.

 

[warhummer]

Et tu Brute?

Hail to the Lions...

Disclaimer: I briefly rooted for Ohio State when the vet hospital cured my dog's cancer. That lasted a few months, but I'm back firmly in my alma mater's corner.

 

[VS540]

Apparently you have learned very little in your pursuit of CFB knowledge.
LOL

Coming from a guy who didnt know CFB teams will play a 12 game regular season schedule in '06, or that OSU has been the projected to claim the preseason #1 spot by most CFB writers all summer......you're lack of CFB knowldedge is quite obvious. When the official pre-season rankings were released last weekend, they only told me what I already knew.........

OSU= #1.

I wish you were right, because I would have preferred to be ranked somewhere else in the top-5. Unfortunately for me, I know everything, and I am never wrong.

Pfft...I love your perception of a simple mistake. Next time you ever misspell something or make a grammatical error, I'll make sure to let you know that it wasn't a mistake and was indeed an obvious fact that you can neither read nor write and are more than likely just a functional illiterate. And that and that alone is the only reason for your error.

The coaches poll is only the 2nd poll I've seen where OSU (gee is that Ohio State, Oregon State or Oklahoma State, my lack of college football knowledge is catching up with me), is rated number one. I will stick with my claim that most polls I have seen did not have OSU #1. Plus it doesn't matter where you start, it only matters where you finish.

More than likely OSU will lose to Texas in the 2nd (duh, with my lack of college football knowledge though I'm unsure if those two teams even play) and will struggle (like they always do) against most of the other Big 11...err...Big 10 schools.
Plus if want to argue semantics is OSU and the other Big Ten teams in two conference's or one? They are all a part of the CIC including one of the founding members of the Big Ten, the University of Chicago. They all collaborate together as one big conference.

Though I'm sure I wouldn't know anything about this mysterious sport you call coll-ege foot-ball. I've only "followed" it since I was 6...

 

[billy p]

Pfft...I love your perception of a simple mistake. Next time you ever misspell something or make a grammatical error, I'll make sure to let you know that it wasn't a mistake and was indeed an obvious fact that you can neither read nor write and are more than likely just a functional illiterate. And that and that alone is the only reason for your error.

The coaches poll is only the 2nd poll I've seen where OSU (gee is that Ohio State, Oregon State or Oklahoma State, my lack of college football knowledge is catching up with me), is rated number one. I will stick with my claim that most polls I have seen did not have OSU #1. Plus it doesn't matter where you start, it only matters where you finish.

More than likely OSU will lose to Texas in the 2nd (duh, with my lack of college football knowledge though I'm unsure if those two teams even play) and will struggle (like they always do) against most of the other Big 11...err...Big 10 schools.
Plus if want to argue semantics is OSU and the other Big Ten teams in two conference's or one? They are all a part of the CIC including one of the founding members of the Big Ten, the University of Chicago. They all collaborate together as one big conference.

Though I'm sure I wouldn't know anything about this mysterious sport you call coll-ege foot-ball. I've only "followed" it since I was 6...

Off topic a bit driving home today listening to sport radio show the "host" called them the luck eyes because of the phantom pass interferance call against the H-canes.
Also getting that first L so early against Texas might hurt National championship season!