Off the floor tune-up tip off the wall?

mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
MacManNM said:
Gene,
Lets make the measurement with a Tektronix 7404 and show them. I've got one. 25 Gs/S and 4GHz analog bandwith, What can we miss?

The quantum Dot effect in that Intelli chip :D
Oh, that only works on Cds :p
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
With 14 rooms at an average of 4 outlets per room, thats 56 new outlets times $55 a piece. Hmmm... $3080. Oh, plus tax. Sorry. $3288.

Of course I'm joking. Those people are crooks! :D
 
S

sjdgpt

Senior Audioholic
Every break open an electrical outlet?

The female outlet is typically composed of a copper plate folded such that it acts as both the female orfice as well as a spring to hold the male plug.

Over time the folded coppper plate, from the repeated insertion of the male plug, will become less resistive to the male plug and the connection will become less efficient.

(OK, enough of the sexual talk)

Bottom line, a electrical outlet that is used frequently (ie male plugs are inserted and removed many times over) will need to be replaced.

For high amperage outlets (240v 50 or 60 amp) the life of the outlet can be as few as a dozen insertions. No, the outlet does not fail with the 12th insertion, it is the increased electrical resistance from the loose fitting copper plate that causes the outlet to overhead.

For low amperage outlets, were the quality of the electrical connection is not as critical (due to overheating issues), the outlet may last dozens or even hundreds of insertions.


What is the cost of a new outlet at Home Depot? $2 to $5.


Darn, I just saved nearly $55 an outlet over those fancy outlets suggested by Galen.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
sjdgpt said:
For low amperage outlets, were the quality of the electrical connection is not as critical (due to overheating issues), the outlet may last dozens or even hundreds of insertions..
Maybe I need to replace my outlet for the toaster as I unplug it after everey use :D
Lets see, 10+ years at 365 days, minus some vacation times, + some multiple uses per day. Maybe it is time :D

Most everything else is plug and forget :p
 
M

MBauer

Audioholic
Agree

sjdgpt said:
Every break open an electrical outlet?

The female outlet is typically composed of a copper plate folded such that it acts as both the female orfice as well as a spring to hold the male plug.

Over time the folded coppper plate, from the repeated insertion of the male plug, will become less resistive to the male plug and the connection will become less efficient.

(OK, enough of the sexual talk)

Bottom line, a electrical outlet that is used frequently (ie male plugs are inserted and removed many times over) will need to be replaced.

For high amperage outlets (240v 50 or 60 amp) the life of the outlet can be as few as a dozen insertions. No, the outlet does not fail with the 12th insertion, it is the increased electrical resistance from the loose fitting copper plate that causes the outlet to overhead.

For low amperage outlets, were the quality of the electrical connection is not as critical (due to overheating issues), the outlet may last dozens or even hundreds of insertions.


What is the cost of a new outlet at Home Depot? $2 to $5.


Darn, I just saved nearly $55 an outlet over those fancy outlets suggested by Galen.

There are some relatively easy to do calculations that will demonstrate the voltage drop at an outlet that meets these criteria. In most cases these should not be a problem with outlets as we generally don't constantly plug and unplug these connections. You could have the same effect with mechanical switches, where there can be "contact bounce".

All in all, it should not be a worry.
 
HookedOnSound

HookedOnSound

Full Audioholic
If you're really worried about contact on electrical outlets, why not just get a hospital grade outlet for you A/V gear in the desired location(s)? They're designed for continuous re-insertion (get your mind out of the gutter!) and offer greater contact pressure, plus they're heavy-duty so they should last longer than a typical outlet meant for residential use...

it'll be a few bucks more than a regular outlet but definitely less than $55 :D
 
F

forty-five-rpm

Audiophyte
Microphonics in speaker cables??? - what a big load of horse-s**t! I cannot believe that people are so gullible when it comes to what I have always termed "bull**** hi-fi'.

First off: any such induction (cough!) is being terminated into a very low dc resistance (mainly the bass speakers voice coil) and thus effectively shorted out. Also consider the souce impedance of a typical transistor amp - fractions of an ohm - the equivalent reistance of a nail! And relevant to the voltage levels reached during music reproduction (s-n ratio), any such miniscule 'induction' (noise) would be inaudible anyway. 'Grain' my arse!

I have to extend my cynical reaction further while I tap away on my keyboard and include some other hairy old chestnuts in my list of 'BS' things that have been touted over the years. And these are only a few:

1) gold-plated audio connectors and 'quality' cables: what sense is there in purchasing, for hundreds of dollars in some cases, metres of especially-made 'performance' cable with gold-plated (RCA) connectors at each end when the manufacturers of the connected equipment don't start or end with the signal travelling over similarly constructed paths INSIDE the coupled equipment??? LOL!

2) just after CD's appeared in the early 80's, special and expensive 'green' rings were made available by one enterprising sole that were designed to snap over a cd to stop the outer edges of the disc from 'reasonating' and therefore affecting sound quality. My opinion: LOL! numbers are not affected by such subtle vibration. This was the whole reason to go digital - numbers are impervious to mechanical influence. But there were those who believed what they read on the packet. The same goes for CD transports.

3) in the days of vinyl, a straight tone arm sounded better than an 'S' shaped one.

4) 'monster' speaker cable - the best and biggest con continuing to this day. A speaker cable can affect sonic purity??? Sorry, LOL! Get some good quality multi-strand mains (power) cable between your amp and speakers and enjoy the same performance.

5) super-tweeters (the one above the normal one) - why for heavens sake? they'll never do anything of musical consequence - except perhaps to reproduce harmonic out-of-band distortions that are better left unheard.

I will always be extremely cynical over such abstracts - this fool and his money have never been separated on the above.

And today's 'format' wars and cons. And this is just the audio ones.

SACD, DVD-A, et-al. CRAP! Same old story. The original 44.1 K sampling rate has adequate frequency response for all music. Brick-wall filtered beyond 22kHz as it is is fine to me as my ears have no subjective response above 14Khz these days (I'm now 50+). How high can you hear?

These fancy new formats won't stay around for long because the public is confused over the many different formats offering in players. You just can't be sure that what you buy will have a life of more than a few years. My new CD player has HDCD capability but its HDCD led is yet to light up. There's just no product around. I looked all the new formats over and decided to spend my money on a good quality CD 2-ch player over units offering sacd etc etc -I think extended formats are a waste of time and money - you cannot hear a significant difference in audio purity in these 'super' formats over a well recorded production in 44.1K in my view. Not unless you WANT to that is.

44.1 CD is now so commonplace and mass produced that it will be hard to replace it with anything else for a long long time. The public won't buy another format if they cannot hear a justifiable difference.

I know I have shifted the discussion further away from the original topic of speaker cables being influenced by floor vibrations sufficient to color sound reproduction, but I nearly swallowed my teeth when I read that one - what next in this mad mad audio world will we hear of?? I was so moved to reply to and critique this suggestion that I registered and signed in on this forum specially to do so.

I have been in electonics, sound systems and record engineering for over 30 years (starting near the end of the valve era). I spent over 6 years in recording studios engineering soundtracks for prominent artists in my home country. I then worked for state television, engineering sound for tv music shows from the smallest to the largest, pre-recorded and live-to-air. I am currently involved in cinemas and sound reproduction therein.

In all my time I have maintained that the 'reproduction' side of the sound industry has been hijacked by unscrupulouse businessmen intent on picking up extra dollars by making hideously false claims (just like many other industries). This includes almost every major hi-fi manufacturer then and today. The whole business is full of false claims as to the sonic benefits of extended hi-fi.

I will bend in one area only: valve (or 'tube' if your an American) amps DO sound better than solid-state. But that's generally agreed on anyway. And for justifiable and hearable reasons.

But gold-plating a connector, sending the signal over an oxygen-free wire and suspending speaker cables above the floor seems to be all very futile when you consider that the recorded work that you are about to listen to will somehow sound better - realise that the work has possibly been recorded on a crappy home computer system with less than quality components involved in many stages, as well as being a multiple digital copy of itself as it works it's way thru a myriad of electronic systems before it finds itself stamped for ever inside a cd disc. But regardless of whether a home or a professional production, by this stage it will contain many per-cents of various distortions and impurities - mostly all of which are thankfully masked by our hearing system when we listen to the music. Why strive to 'eke' out all these subtle impurities then when God obviously was compensating for the degradations in the recording process when he built 'masking' into our hearing perception systems. Thanks God.

I have barely skimmed the surface of the subject of the wide-ranging and on-going hi-fi scam and know this post will stir many to defend their expensive purchases in such frilly accessories as mentioned and their high-end equipment. Go ahead, but I also know a guy who insists that by routing all his audio cables and interconnects in straight lines and having them arranged to terminate at perfect right-angles into his equipment that makes his system sound better - to him.

There's a common saying around today that is applicable to 'bull****' hi-fi - and that is ... Get Real guys!

Gary P.
(NZ)
 
F

forty-five-rpm

Audiophyte
Microphonics in speaker cables??? - what a big load of horse-s**t! I cannot believe that people are so gullible when it comes to what I have always termed "bull**** hi-fi'.

First off: any such induction (cough!) is being terminated into a very low dc resistance (mainly the bass speakers voice coil) and thus effectively shorted out. Also consider the souce impedance of a typical transistor amp - fractions of an ohm - the equivalent reistance of a nail! And relevant to the voltage levels reached during music reproduction (s-n ratio), any such miniscule 'induction' (noise) would be inaudible anyway. 'Grain' my arse!

I have to extend my cynical reaction further while I tap away on my keyboard and include some other hairy old chestnuts in my list of 'BS' things that have been touted over the years. And these are only a few:

1) gold-plated audio connectors and 'quality' cables: what sense is there in purchasing, for hundreds of dollars in some cases, metres of especially-made 'perormance' cable with gold-plated (RCA) connectors at each end when the manufacturers of the connected equipment don't continue the signal over similar paths INSIDE the coupled equipment??? LOL!

2) just after CD's appeared in the early 80's, special and expensive 'green' rings were made available by one enterprising sole that were designed to snap over a cd to stop the outer edges of the disc from 'reasonating' and therefore affecting sound quality. My opinion: LOL! numbers are not affected by such subtle vibration. This was the whole reason to go digital - the numbers are impervious to mechanical influence. But there were those who believed what they read on the packet.

3) in the days of vinyl, a straight tone arm sounded better than an 'S' shaped one.

4) 'monster' speaker cable - the best and biggest con continuing to this day. A speaker cable can affect sonic purity??? Sorry, LOL! Get some good quality multi-strand mains (power) cable between your amp and speakers and enjoy the same performance.

5) super-tweeters (the one above the normal one) - why for heavens sake? they'll never do anything of musical consequence - except perhaps to reproduce harmonic out-of-band distortions that are better left unheard.

I will always be extremely cynical over such abstracts - this fool and his money have never been separated on the above.

And today's 'format' wars and cons. And this is just the audio ones.

SACD, DVD-A, et-al. CRAP! Same old story. The original 44.1 K sampling rate has adequate frequency response for all music. Brick-wall filtered beyond 22kHz as it is is fine to me as my ears have no subjective response above 14Khz these days (I'm now 50+). How high can you hear?

These fancy new formats won't stay around for long because the public is confused over the many different formats offering in players. You just can't be sure that what you buy will have a life of more than a few years. My new CD player has HDCD capability but its HDCD led is yet to light up. There's just no product around. I looked all the new formats over and decided to spend my money on a good quality CD 2-ch player over units offering sacd etc etc -I think extended formats are a waste of time and money - you cannot hear a significant difference in audio purity in these 'super' formats over a well recorded production in 44.1K in my view. Not unless you WANT to that is.

44.1 CD is now so commonplace and mass produced that it will be hard to replace it with anything else for a long long time. The public won't buy another format if they cannot hear a justifiable difference.

I know I have shifted the discussion further away from the original topic of speaker cables being influenced by floor vibrations sufficient to color sound reproduction, but I nearly swallowed my teeth when I read that one - what next in this mad mad audio world will we hear of?? I was so moved to reply to and critique this suggestion that I registered and signed in on this forum specially to do so.

I have been in electonics, sound systems and record engineering for over 30 years (starting near the end of the valve era). I spent over 6 years in recording studios engineering soundtracks for prominent artists in my home country. I then worked for state television, engineering sound for tv music shows from the smallest to the largest, pre-recorded and live-to-air. I am currently involved in cinemas and sound reproduction therein.

In all my time I have maintained that the 'reproduction' side of the sound industry has been hijacked by unscrupulouse businessmen intent on picking up extra dollars by making hideously false claims (just like many other industries). This includes almost every major hi-fi manufacturer then and today. The whole business is full of false claims as to the sonic benefits of extended hi-fi.

I will bend in one area only: valve (or 'tube' if your an American) amps DO sound better than solid-state. But that's generally agreed on anyway. And for justifiable and hearable reasons.

But gold-plating a connector, sending the signal over an oxygen-free wire and suspending speaker cables above the floor seems to be all very futile when you consider that the recorded work that you are about to listen to will somehow sound better - realise that the work has possibly been recorded on a crappy home computer system with less than quality components involved in many stages, as well as being a multiple digital copy of itself as it works it's way thru a myriad of electronic systems before it finds itself stamped for ever inside a cd disc. By this stage it will contain many per-cents of various distortions and impurities - mostly all of which are conveniently masked by our hearing system when it starts to listen to the music. Why strive to 'eke' out all these subtle impurities then when God obviously was compensating for the degradations in the recording process when he built 'masking' into our hearing perception systems. Thanks God.

I have barely skimmed the surface of the subject of the wide-ranging and on-going hi-fi scam and know this post will stir many to defend their expensive purchases in such frilly accessories as mentioned and their high-end equipment. Go ahead, but I also know a guy who insists that by routing all his audio cables and interconnects in straight lines and having them arranged to terminate at perfect right-angles into his equipment that this makes his system 'sound' better - to him.

There's a common saying around today that is applicable to 'bull****' hi-fi - and that is ... Get Real guys!

Gary P.
(NZ)
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
I don't think you'll find any arguments to that. Cept that you double posted, but it's all good.
 
T

The Dukester

Audioholic Chief
Two solutions to the problem vs cable raisers...get a exterminator for the bugs and buy better padding for the carpet to absorb the vibration.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
forty-five-rpm said:
Gary P.
(NZ)

Welcome aboard, Gary :D I think you will like it here.
Your poste sounded so familiar, I thought I forgot about that post of mine but like minds think alike :D
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
jaxvon said:
Cept that you double posted, but it's all good.

Happens to the best of us, even with a few more posts than him :D
 
Rip Van Woofer

Rip Van Woofer

Audioholic General
Why, of COURSE your cables should be off the ground! As should all your components. But using mere physical devices is of no use. They should be levitated by means of transcendental meditation. Oops, mine are beginning to droop....


OOOOOOOMMMMmmmmmmmm....
 
F

forty-five-rpm

Audiophyte
another great hi-fi ripoff scheme emerges

"Welcome aboard, Gary I think you will like it here.
Your poste sounded so familiar, I thought I forgot about that post of mine but like minds think alike". Thanks mytrycrafts - I am enjoying this site!

Hi all. I have am astounded to find yet another bull**** hi-fi scam emerging, this one, I 'm ashamed to say, from my own country.

Check this out and die LAUGHING!!!!!

(scroll down their page to "Cable Cooking")

http://www.nzmadeaudio.co.nz/index.html

"CABLE-COOKING" - AAAAGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! That outfit is just too-much!

I am going to get on the scam bandwagon too. I am going to the local $2 Shop to buy some Made-in-Taiwan RCA-RCA cables which sound just fine, and respray paint them in a nice earthy-green shade. I will then repackage them as "ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY AUDIO CABLE". This cable has been coated in a special protective laquer to prevent absorbtion of free-radical ions from the surounding air. This highly scientific procedure improves the overall "sonic-quality" in high-end audio systems by maintaining the delicate balance of friendly ions around your interconnect cables. Hear previously inaudible sound-nuances in your precious recordings that will leap out and astound you!! " Do not substitute for inferior product - will also help save the planet".

Original price:$2
Extra materials to repackage: $4
Retail price: don't want to be greedy, say $400 each?
Potential market: worldwide=unlimited high-end audio enthusiasts/suckers

Potential profit: $394 x ???????? - at least I aim to be a millionaire!

"There's one born every minute"
 

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