Obama wins Nobel Peace Prize?!?!

[JerryLove]

What about the countries in Africa that seized white farmer's lands and gave it to black farmers? They did more.

Of course, the reason America is sometimes called "racist" is because of all we've done to put down people over race.

Well, and you just called us racist in saying that we preference black people.

 

[Matt34]

What about the countries in Africa that seized white farmer's lands and gave it to black farmers? They did more.

Of course, the reason America is sometimes called "racist" is because of all we've done to put down people over race.

Well, and you just called us racist in saying that we preference black people.

That action was backed by the Pan African Congress, a radical black Marxist group. You really think that would be a better or more fullfilling approach than what this country has done? Since when has Africa been at the top of the pillar as far as human rights go?

No argument here but we weren't the worse and have made huge strides in a very short amount of time.

No he didn't, he just listed some of the programs the government saw fit to help compensate African-American's.

 

[JerryLove]

That action was backed by the Pan African Congress, a radical black Marxist group. You really think that would be a better or more fullfilling approach than what this country has done? Since when has Africa been at the top of the pillar as far as human rights go?

When did "better" or "good for human rights" come up? I must have missed that in the posting.

I wasn't discussing the best approach, just commenting on the post I quoted.

No argument here but we weren't the worse and have made huge strides in a very short amount of time.

Agreed

No he didn't, he just listed some of the programs the government saw fit to help compensate African-American's.

how can something "to advance black applicants over white applicants" be anything but racist?

 

[Schupo]

how can something "to advance black applicants over white applicants" be anything but racist?

White applicants aren't turned away because of the color of their skin. Should we just accept that there is racism in the hiring practices of many companies in America? After all, we can't prove that just because the staff is 100% white that there are racist practices in place. What would you suggest we do?

 

[Matt34]

When did "better" or "good for human rights" come up? I must have missed that in the posting.

I wasn't discussing the best approach, just commenting on the post I quoted.

Agreed

how can something "to advance black applicants over white applicants" be anything but racist?

Your three word counter was, "they did more" along with the reference to Africa, hence my response. AFAIK Zimbabwe was the only government to offically back that action. Other countries stood back and did nothing when squatters and the such railied behind the Zimbabwe flag and forceable took the farms away. Rick said, "There isn’t a country anywhere, that has done more tolift up blacks." I take ,"they did more" as doing better/going above what this country has done with sustainable, quaility programs....not radical, largely unsupported and unlawful movements. The action you described in Africa has been neither.

 

[JerryLove]

White applicants aren't turned away because of the color of their skin. Should we just accept that there is racism in the hiring practices of many companies in America? After all, we can't prove that just because the staff is 100% white that there are racist practices in place. What would you suggest we do?

Did I say any of that? I just said that selecting an applicant based on their race was racist, and that saying a country does that is saying that it engages in racist activities. Do you believe either of those statements is false?

Since you ask: I'm not a big fan of race-based affirmative action. It's an attempt to sacrifice individual liberties (the right of this particular white guy to be hired, if the company chooses) for group rights (attempting to make the black population on parity in hiring).

If a company is discriminating against black people, then charge them. Don't try to counter one black man not getting hired because he's black by making some other white man not get hired because he's white.

If you have a population in trouble (for example: smart poor people aren't getting into college because their upbringing hurts their college admissions (less activities, less opportunity for AP classes, less school support); then effect policy to help those groups: but even then I don't think quotas are the answer.

 

[JerryLove]

Rick said, "There isn’t a country anywhere, that has done more tolift up blacks." I take ,"they did more" as doing better/going above what this country has done with sustainable, quaility programs....not radical, largely unsupported and unlawful movements. The action you described in Africa has been neither.

What's been done in Africa is generally awful.

Somehow I'm reminded of Harry Potter "Valdemort did great things.... Terrible, but great".

Would you have taken that first sentence as condoning Valdemort? I can acknowledge that Peter the Great, and Stalin later, modernized Russia: that they did great things, even as I condemn what they did.

 

[Schupo]

If a company is discriminating against black people, then charge them.

How can you prove this?

 

[JerryLove]

How can you prove this?

Like so many crimes: it's not a simple thing to do (in essence, it's difficult to determine intent). Bluntly, and especially for small companies, it's easy to get away with.

In large companies, there's a mix of unreasonable statistics, and a paper (well, usually electronic) trail.

Discrimination cases have certainly been won before.

 

[highfigh]

White applicants aren't turned away because of the color of their skin. Should we just accept that there is racism in the hiring practices of many companies in America? After all, we can't prove that just because the staff is 100% white that there are racist practices in place. What would you suggest we do?

Yes, they are. If someone gets preferential treatment because they're not white, it's discriminating against the white person. It's going according to the Affirmative Action guidelines but look at what it's trying to accomplish- more jobs given to people of color, not based soley on the qualifications of the applicant.

Do you want to be forced to hire someone based on their color or be free to choose the best person for the job, based on their qualifications?

A local restaurant received a visit from the local chapter of the NAACP. The owner asked of he could help them (they didn't seem to want to sit and eat) and they said, "I see that you have some white people, some Mexican people and some Asian people. Don't you like diversity?". He replied, "We like diversity a lot. We have some thin people, some fat ones, some short and some tall".

 

[Schupo]

Yes, they are. If someone gets preferential treatment because they're not white, it's discriminating against the white person. It's going according to the Affirmative Action guidelines but look at what it's trying to accomplish- more jobs given to people of color, not based soley on the qualifications of the applicant.

I meant without Affirmative Action. I don't believe that we should discriminate against anybody, regardless of race, but I also don't believe that one person's rights should supersede the rights of an entire group of people. It's also frustrating listening to white people complain about how they're being discriminated against. Stop complaining, you aren't a victim.

 

[NicolasKL]

Like so many crimes: it's not a simple thing to do (in essence, it's difficult to determine intent). Bluntly, and especially for small companies, it's easy to get away with.

Which is why your "solution" doesn't work.

 

[JerryLove]

I meant without Affirmative Action. I don't believe that we should discriminate against anybody, regardless of race, but I also don't believe that one person's rights should supersede the rights of an entire group of people.

So if I don't get a job that I was most qualified for and for which the hiring manager wanted me because they needed a black person to meet quote, that helps the entire black community?

There's a racial "right" to get jobs over more qualified applicants?

It's also frustrating listening to white people complain about how they're being discriminated against. Stop complaining, you aren't a victim.

A jobless person who did not get the job he interviewed for because of his race is not a victim of racism? How so?

 

[JerryLove]

Still, I think we are falling off-topic.

 

[NicolasKL]

So if I don't get a job that I was most qualified for and for which the hiring manager wanted me because they needed a black person to meet quote, that helps the entire black community?

There's a racial "right" to get jobs over more qualified applicants?

A jobless person who did not get the job he interviewed for because of his race is not a victim of racism? How so?

We know black people are discriminated against. If you think otherwise, you're a nut.

AA can eliminate some of the discrimination against blacks, at the expense of occasionally discriminating against whites.

So you would prefer that there be no discrimination against whites, even if it means there is more discrimination against blacks. Let me ask, are you white?

Let me also ask, which race is going to be able to more easily bear the brunt of some discrimination, the race that makes up ~70% of the country's population, or the race that spent 200 years being owned by that other race, plus was the "beneficiary" of state sanctioned/enforced racism for another hundred years after that.

There's no doubt that eventually affirmative action should be eliminated (ie, when it's no longer needed). There's also no doubt that the reason it was instituted STILL exists today.

I certainly wouldn't assume that everything would be healed and all hunky dory only 40 years after the cessation of government racism. I'd say at a bare minimum we could look at getting rid of AA the day that the last person that had to give their seat up on a bus to a white person and couldn't use the whites only bathroom dies.