Numerous questions on my setup, Bipole vs Monopole for distance, sub placement, 2 ch amp for Ultra Towers

T

the machine

Audioholic
Hello All,

I have a few questions regarding my setup. I have a somewhat accurate depiction of the room. Speaker size is accurate. The bottom right corner is a built in bookshelf that needed to be added because behind this area is ductwork and a water heater. At around 9 feet from the TV, there is a structural beam that runs across the ceiling. We enclosed other ductwork on the ceiling toward the front at the same height, basically is made a rectangle on the ceiling that is 16" in down from the ceiling and runs the entire length of the ceiling from the 9 foot mark to the TV wall. It's about 11 inches wide, but totally open in the middle (ceiling is back to 8ft). Along this area my Atmos speakers are mounted. Because of this the MLP will be roughly 6.5-7 feet from the front wall, I think the back of the couch should sit around the 9ft mark in the room. All of the boxes that represent the speakers are to proportion: SVS Ultra towers and center (not shown as it just sits on top of the TV stand) in the front, along with 2 PB 2000, 4 Prime elevations, 2 Ultra bookshelves behind sofa. The room is roughly 16x20x8, not accounting for the built out area in the lower right hand portion of the picture. Nothing is set up as of yet except the Prime elevations. The room is in the last leg of construction, the floor (carpet)

I'm wondering given the 10ft plus distance from the MLP, would a monopole speaker be more beneficial vs a dipole? I know people have their preferences, but my main concern is the distance and if one might perform better than the other. The photo below has the Dipole to size shown in the back of the room.

I have already wired everything in wall so there's no changing at this point (plus the bottom left corner of the photo will likely have a small bar or something in it, so opposing sub placement isn't an option) but would it be more beneficial to have the subs on the inside or outside of the tower placement? If inside, the towers can be angled more, but then the subs may be too close to the MLP and possibly overpower. I'm not quite sure if a few feet in this case will make that much of a difference.

Lastly, the amp I have is a Marantz 7012, 9.2. I currently have 9 channels, so if I add rear surrounds (which I'm wired for), what is a good 2 channel amp that would work well with the Ultra Towers? I wouldn't be opposed to selling the 7012 and stepping up to an 11.2 if it makes more sense.

Thanks in advance for all your suggestions.

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S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
I would absolutely go for bookshelf speakers for the surrounds in that situation.

I think that the SVS Ultra towers should be OK with that AVR. SVS specs them at 8 ohms. It certainly wouldn't hurt to put them on a outboard amp. The less strain you can take of the AVR the better. I would look at getting a three channel outboard amp for the left, right, and center. Look at Outlaw Audio or Monoprice Monolith for a good amp for that.
 
T

the machine

Audioholic
Awesome, thanks for the suggestions. Just out of curiousity, why bookshelves in this situation? Is it the distance? Is it the direction of the woofers on the surrounds? I’m guessing going with prime satellites would be much more beneficial as the ultras aren’t going to be that much better for ambient noise. Does that sound reasonable or am I leaving something on the table.


I have an in at an audio store and can probably get a discounted parasound or emotiva. Any reason to go with outlaw or mono price vs parasound or emotiva? I prob should note that this is for 80% movies and 15% music, 5% gaming.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Awesome, thanks for the suggestions. Just out of curiousity, why bookshelves in this situation? Is it the distance? Is it the direction of the woofers on the surrounds? I’m guessing going with prime satellites would be much more beneficial as the ultras aren’t going to be that much better for ambient noise. Does that sound reasonable or am I leaving something on the table.


I have an in at an audio store and can probably get a discounted parasound or emotiva. Any reason to go with outlaw or mono price vs parasound or emotiva? I prob should note that this is for 80% movies and 15% music, 5% gaming.
I agree there is not a reason to spend big on rear surrounds. Prime bookshelf speakers should be sufficient for that role.

As for Outlaw and Monoprice Monolith vs Emotiva and Parasound, I think the Parasound is likely to be quiet a bit more expensive without a real increase in performance. I don't really trust the reliability of Emotiva. However if you can get three channels of amplification wattage from a Parasound for the same price as a Outlaw or Monolith, sure, go for it.
 
T

the machine

Audioholic
Thanks shady, I swear you’ve commented on almost every post I’ve made and I really appreciate it. Will check out what my price will be on an a31, probably 1800 if I had to guess. Might be worth it to save the $$$ and check out outlaw and monoprice. I’ll weigh all the options.
 
T

the machine

Audioholic
Also, to give a better visual, see photos below. Yes it’s still a mess with tools and such. First two photos show the drop down from the ceiling, and why it needs to be close to the tv area so the rear atmos are slightly behind the sofa. Third photo shows depth of built in, and 4th shows the position of the rear surrounds and how close the right rear (left of photo) is to the built in.
 

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Danzilla31

Audioholic Samurai
Also, to give a better visual, see photos below. Yes it’s still a mess with tools and such. First two photos show the drop down from the ceiling, and why it needs to be close to the tv area so the rear atmos are slightly behind the sofa. Third photo shows depth of built in, and 4th shows the position of the rear surrounds and how close the right rear (left of photo) is to the built in.
Very nice bipole s or dipole speakers are only used know when the listener is very close to the speaker and you want to avoid beaming to that person at that spot

But in your space with your setup and the distance you have monopoles work much better

The issue is imaging and panning of sounds as they move across the room the way the sound engineer intended

Monopoles are excellent at this and this is what you need in an atmos object based type of surround system

Bipoles and dipoles were great for channel based 5.1 or 7.1 systems back in the day but not for the new systems that are object based formats like DTS Nueral X and atmos or auto 3D

The reason is again monopoles are better at pinpoint imaging and panning where bipole s and dipoles are better at just spreading the sound around you

Trust me I've been there in my theater room we went from bipoles to monopoles and it made a huge difference night and day for atmos based types of soundtracks heck just quality sound period
The room with bipoles

20191118_135551.jpg

The room with all monopoles
20191210_111757.jpg

20191210_111607.jpg

The difference with all monopole speakers for dts neural X and atmos content hell even for upmixing is just night and day over bipole s it's not even close

With all monopole JBL studio 5 speakers for my base 7 I get that feeling with the sound where I get a natural high of off listening to movies and music never happened with the bipoles

You have the space to do it right with monopole speakers in my opinion I say go for it
 
T

the machine

Audioholic
Update:

So the parasound is a no go, legacy model is on closeout and can't go lower at 2700. So I have decided I will go with either the Monoprice 5 channel (3 is sold out, plus its only 200$ more for 2 more channels so why not) or 3 outlaw 2200. The 3 outlaws are $500 cheaper. I've read a few threads on both but am undecided on which would be the best option.

Thanks again for your thoughts
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
2200 just reviewed by Amir over at ASR (fwiw).
I use 5 in my rig for Mains, Center, Surrounds. They work great.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Samurai
2200 just reviewed by Amir over at ASR (fwiw).
I use 5 in my rig for Mains, Center, Surrounds. They work great.
Agreed if I had to do it over again I'd go with the 2200 I like the idea of every speaker having its own power supply

Plus if one goes out it's easy to replace them they have great sales on them as well

It's very well reviewed and measures very well

Outlaw usually always exceeds there specs goid company
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Samurai
The monoprice 5 channel is a good amp tho were not bashing it

For myself tho heavy bulky amplifiers when you have solutions like the outlaw 2200 man I'm tired of installing heavy hot bulky amps

It's why I use crowns in my bedroom setup
 
T

the machine

Audioholic
Yeah, I've been reading the 2200 thread on this forum which has a lot of activity lately. At $799 for 3 shipping included, it seems like the best option. I can take the remining $500 and get the Prime Bookshelves for the rears and be at the same price as the monoprice. Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. Placing order now!!!
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Samurai
Yeah, I've been reading the 2200 thread on this forum which has a lot of activity lately. At $799 for 3 shipping included, it seems like the best option. I can take the remining $500 and get the Prime Bookshelves for the rears and be at the same price as the monoprice. Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. Placing order now!!!
Can't wait to hear your impressions! Good choice!
 
T

the machine

Audioholic
Currently I have an Ikea TV stand (TV is wall mounted but holds receiver, Blu-Ray Player, PS3, etc) and is enclosed with glass doors. How hot do these run in an enclosed unit? I previously had a Denon x5200w and I could notice the heat after being on for a while, and I never pushed it as it was in my living room in a prior house, with a young child. Would it be more beneficial to look into an audio rack? Ideally I'd like everything to be enclosed (5 year old and 14 month old) but if heat will be an issue, I'd make the investment in an open rack. Also, what fans should I look into?
 

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