NS SW300 Subwoofer rattling

[lovinthehd]

Anyhow this is a servo sub in a vented cabinet.

.

So what do you think of Rythmik servo subs then?

 

[TLS Guy]

So what do you think of Rythmik servo subs then?

The difference is this. This is Rhythmic's design. "The correction signal is fed back into the summing points of the amplifier. It is compared to the original signal and corrections are made without the use of any active circuits".

There is a sensing coil, but it is NOT driving an active equalizer. So what you have is essentially an augmented negative feedback to the amplifier. In all honesty I wonder if this really adds squat, and is just a sales enhancing gimmick. The good thing is that it has no negative aspects, and could reduce distortion. What it will not do is augment bass in a vented cabinet. This is a Rhythmic patent.

Now active servo approaches have been used in sealed designs to provide the Eq required for the high F3 without Eq. This is valid as a sealed driver does not decouple from the box below F3. However it remains controversial whether this has any advantage over providing the calculated and measured required Eq. Certainly this servo approach adds failure points and the risk benefit of it I consider unproven.

In the Yamaha case, it is clear to me from the response curves that the servo is active Eq which is wrong.

 

[Elguapo916]

The difference is this. This is Rhythmic's design. "The correction signal is fed back into the summing points of the amplifier. It is compared to the original signal and corrections are made without the use of any active circuits".

There is a sensing coil, but it is NOT driving an active equalizer. So what you have is essentially an augmented negative feedback to the amplifier. In all honesty I wonder if this really adds squat, and is just a sales enhancing gimmick. The good thing is that it has no negative aspects, and could reduce distortion. What it will not do is augment bass in a vented cabinet. This is a Rhythmic patent.

Now active servo approaches have been used in sealed designs to provide the Eq required for the high F3 without Eq. This is valid as a sealed driver does not decouple from the box below F3. However it remains controversial whether this has any advantage over providing the calculated and measured required Eq. Certainly this servo approach adds failure points and the risk benefit of it I consider unproven.

In the Yamaha case, it is clear to me from the response curves that the servo is active Eq which is wrong.

So again, is there any sub in that range you would recommend?

 

[TLS Guy]

So again, is there any sub in that range you would recommend?

I think you have been given some good recommendations. I design and build all my own speakers. So I only have myself to blame if things don't work out. I try and avoid recommendations of commercial designs.

 

[lovinthehd]

Maybe you're a good candidate for DIY? Or even more AIY with something like this and an amp...https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-15-ultimax-subwoofer-and-cabinet-bundle--300-7097

 

[Elguapo916]

I think you have been given some good recommendations. I design and build all my own speakers. So I only have myself to blame if things don't work out. I try and avoid recommendations of commercial designs.

Hey, what would be your thought on this one https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/sunsds12a/sunfire-sds-12-12-300-watt-dual-driver-powered-subwoofer/1.html

Your problem with this unit is that it is a poorly conceived design and overall function therefore lamentable.

You have probably relied on consumer reports. I have found one third party review from the Yamaha website with some measurements.

The review is full of praise despite evidence to the contrary. I'm sure there was a generous backhander somewhere.

Anyhow this is a servo sub in a vented cabinet. A bad idea for a start. Servo control is a form of Eq, and vented alignments tolerate Eq poorly.

This is how I get best describe this contraption. So the the spec is 20 to 160 Hz, no 3db points quoted.

So what we have if the LFE input is used is a peak to 93 db output at 90 Hz. It is 18 db down at 20 Hz. So the servo is applying a lot of boost as a vented enclosure would normally be 48 db down 2 octaves below the point of roll off. This would account for the tendency to bottom, as I'm sure there is Eq being applied below the natural 3 db point of 60 Hz for that woofer and box. Anyhow output is 75 db at 20 Hz. Not a lot of use.

Now this where it really gets disgraceful. There is a low pass filter you can engage at 40 Hz. So it rolls off at 40 Hz where the output is 82.5 db So that sleight of hand allows them to show a 3db point of around 25Hz.

So that is no sub. I don't know what you would call it, but sub it is not. I think we should have a competition here for an apt name. Bottom flutterer anyone? That's a start.

What you are reporting is exactly what I would expect from this design. It is entirely predictable.

So again, I get that you detest the design of this sub, lol, but what is that sound that sounds like it is rattling? Do you think it is normal for that model? Is it port noise? Is it bottoming out? I have no idea. I want to see if it is an issue with the sub so I can return it.

 

[Klutzu24]

Hi.
I bought the yamaha ns sw300 and i have the same problem as you do. I reported the problem to the seller, and i after getting 10% discount i decided to keep it so i took my chances and opened it as i thought that i have something inside from my 2 year old son. After long search i found that the woofer was hitting the front grill. Wich was shaking and was making the woofer to create a weird rattle noise like the one in your video. Bad design i guess. Without this problem the sub is exceptional and has a beautifull punchy bass that my other sub presonus temblor t10 has not. Modified the sub. Works beautifull. Cheers

 

[Danzilla31]

Lol, I know you're not picking on my setup. I appreciate your help. I have a couple cheaper subwoofers, one is at most a 10" sub the other is less, and they don't bottom out like this one does.

Well, it isn't so much that when I turn it up I notice it, I typically leave it at 50%. At that volume it rattled like crazy during that scene(I have watched other movies and deep bassy moments make it rattle a bit too). If I lower the volume I might not hear the rattle, but then I hardly notice the thing is on at all. And for THAT reason I am concerned it might be an issue with the sub itself because if that is the case, what bother having a subwoofer at all? 10" or not, a $500 sub, IMHO, shouldn't bottom out/rattle at normal listening levels like that. Maybe my expectations are too high.

Lol, don't laugh, but the reviews I checked out were amazon and these two.
http://www.toptenreviews.com/electronics/home-entertainment/best-home-subwoofers/yamaha-review/
http://i.nextmedia.com.au/Assets/yamaha_ns_sw300_subwoofer_review_test_lores.pdf

I'll be honest, with the nextmedia one, I looked at the lab results at the bottom and tried to understand that jibberish. All I saw was that it said it showed "exemplary performance," and called it good haha. By reading that, does that help with your understanding at all? =)

Yeah I looked at the review and article. The most important thing to note is the article when it talks about its roll off at 40hz. It says it's peak output will be 50hz. What this means is the subwoofer can give you a lot off output from say 80 to 50 Hz. If that's where you set the output but after that it's output is going to drop sharply.

The problem? Most movies have A LOT of low end content these days. A lot of stuff is down to 40hz but there is still a lot that goes to 20hz. But even at 40 Hz the sub is starting to lose output. In a room that size it seems to me when your hitting the low and powerful bass notes from movies your just asking it too do too much hence the issues your having with the rattling

In short? This sub could maybe handle most music content but not movies.

Since your budget seems to be around $500 might I suggest some alternatives. The monoprice 10 inch monolith. The SVS PB 1000. Rsl speedwoofer 10s. HsU has some great options around that price range. I think so does Rhythmik I'm not sure. Many of these companies have to boot excellent customer service generous return policies so you can try there products out risk free for a couple of weeks in your home.

Most importantly any one of the subs mentioned above will smoke that sub you have blow it out of the water. And for the same price point too

 

[Danzilla31]

Yeah I looked at the review and article. The most important thing to note is the article when it talks about its roll off at 40hz. It says it's peak output will be 50hz. What this means is the subwoofer can give you a lot off output from say 80 to 50 Hz. If that's where you set the output but after that it's output is going to drop sharply.

The problem? Most movies have A LOT of low end content these days. A lot of stuff is down to 40hz but there is still a lot that goes to 20hz. But even at 40 Hz the sub is starting to lose output. In a room that size it seems to me when your hitting the low and powerful bass notes from movies your just asking it too do too much hence the issues your having with the rattling

In short? This sub could maybe handle most music content but not movies.

Since your budget seems to be around $500 might I suggest some alternatives. The monoprice 10 inch monolith. The SVS PB 1000. Rsl speedwoofer 10s. HsU has some great options around that price range. I think so does Rhythmik I'm not sure. Many of these companies have to boot excellent customer service generous return policies so you can try there products out risk free for a couple of weeks in your home.

Most importantly any one of the subs mentioned above will smoke that sub you have blow it out of the water. And for the same price point too

As mentioned HSU's VTF1 and VTF2 are both great options

 

[Danzilla31]

As mentioned HSU's VTF1 and VTF2 are both great options

I checked out rythmik real quick but they really don't have much in the $500 range from what I can see

 

[Danzilla31]

I checked out rythmik real quick but they really don't have much in the $500 range from what I can see

Now if your wanting to stay in the budget range I'd go with Bic, there PL 200 II I think I got that right that lineup is okay also the Polk HTS 12 got a solid review on the AVS forum both of those would outperform that Yamaha good luck tho either isolatong the problem or finding the right sub! I hope we can help!

 

[snakeeyes]

Look at the HSU VTF2. That sub really performs above its price.

 

[Elguapo916]

Hi.
I bought the yamaha ns sw300 and i have the same problem as you do. I reported the problem to the seller, and i after getting 10% discount i decided to keep it so i took my chances and opened it as i thought that i have something inside from my 2 year old son. After long search i found that the woofer was hitting the front grill. Wich was shaking and was making the woofer to create a weird rattle noise like the one in your video. Bad design i guess. Without this problem the sub is exceptional and has a beautifull punchy bass that my other sub presonus temblor t10 has not. Modified the sub. Works beautifull. Cheers

I am curious, who did you buy it from? I remember being overall unimpressed with the sub. I held off and bought the SVS NSD12 while it was on sale. HUUUGE upgrade.

 

[Elguapo916]

As mentioned HSU's VTF1 and VTF2 are both great options

Lol, man, where were you and ol snakeeyes a month ago! What I love is online you can get so much information on a product....what I hate is online these is so much information you can miss. Don't get me wrong, I love my SVS NSD12, but I poked around and it seems the HSU VTF2 is a little better. So many brands and models to look at. What can you do? =)

 

[Danzilla31]

I am curious, who did you buy it from? I remember being overall unimpressed with the sub. I held off and bought the SVS NSD12 while it was on sale. HUUUGE upgrade.

Sorry I was late to the party! Lol

 

[Danzilla31]

Sorry I was late to the party! Lol

But I tell you what that SVS sub was a huge deal and that sub is no slouch either definetly guarantee and it sounds like your already noticing it's a huge upgrade from what you had you made a pretty dang good choice right there my friend!

 

[snakeeyes]

Sorry I was late to the party! Lol

Me too. I followed that Danzilla guy into an old thread. LOL

 

[Danzilla31]

Me too. I followed that Danzilla guy into an old thread. LOL

We try our best right @snakeeyes? So many threads so little time.... Siiiiiggghh

 

[octavebug]

Hi as an owner of this sub I just wanted to say that while TLS Guy make great points about its specifications I have personally not encountered this rattling noise in my listening. It isn't the best or most powerful sub in any way but mine sure doesn't sound like that which leads me to believe there might be something wrong with Elguapo916's sub.

I bought mine a few years ago and have been pleased with the performance in my small room but will upgrade to something better when me and my wallet are on the same page haha

 

[terence_terry_MAS]

Hi.
I bought the yamaha ns sw300 and i have the same problem as you do. I reported the problem to the seller, and i after getting 10% discount i decided to keep it so i took my chances and opened it as i thought that i have something inside from my 2 year old son. After long search i found that the woofer was hitting the front grill. Wich was shaking and was making the woofer to create a weird rattle noise like the one in your video. Bad design i guess. Without this problem the sub is exceptional and has a beautifull punchy bass that my other sub presonus temblor t10 has not. Modified the sub. Works beautifull. Cheers

Hi, my location in Asia. I bought the same Subwoofer, and facing the same rattling sound when LFE hitting at very low, which is the same as scene from Ready Player One. Opening scene of Edge of Tomorrow also rattles this subwoofer into madness. It doesn't look like a coincidence of having defective driver, unless they all came from the same batch. It looks more the product limitation.