NS SW300 Subwoofer rattling

[Elguapo916]

Hey all. I just bought an NS SW300 Yamaha subwoofer and testing it out in my 13x23ft room I am feeling a little underwhelmed. I've been using some cheap sub for a long time expecting this to be a HUGE leap. I am no audio buff or anything. The settings on my AVRS 920W receiver for the are -6.5Db, 80Hz crossover, LFE+Main was set to 120Hz. When I watched Ready Player One there is a loud/long explosion that was causing my sub to rattle a ton. Sub volume was set to 50%. I can put it down to 25% but then I feel I can't even hear it. Does this seem like a limitation of the model or is there possibly a problem with my sub? This is the only time I have noticed this, but i've only had it a week and it seems concerning I have already had this problem. I recorded the sub during that scene, see below.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yamaha is not known for their subs really, altho looks like one of their better offerings. So I'd concentrate on setup first. Did you re-run Audyssey to set the new sub up to the settings you mention, or? 25-50% on the sub's gain setting can be a big difference...and once calibrated you should leave the sub gain alone and control it in the avr only....IME/IMO.

 

[Elguapo916]

Yeah, I ran Audyssey and the numbers I threw out there were the ones from the auto calibration. During calibration it tells you to set sub to 50% and so that is why I never moved it from that spot. Yeah, I don't know much about speaker brands. I tried reading up on that price point and from what I read, that sub was supposed to be excellent! I have talked to several other people who bought subs in that same price point and none of their subs have issues with that scene. I just have a hard time believing this sub would have had such good reviews if it rattles like that. I am pretty disappointed.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Have you tried it at lower volume just for grins? My understanding of RP1(unfortunately haven’t seen it yet) is it has an excellent track with some very well done, very intense bass. The sound to me sounds mechanical, like the driver bottoming out. That’s not a very large sub at 10”, and playing a bad a$$ soundtrack at a decent level in a fairly good sized room will surely be too much for it. I would look into returning it and getting something from Rythmik, HSU or SVS. (Or diy)

 

[everettT]

Change all your speakers to small and see if that helps. I'm sure your mains aren't full range so no need for main+lfe.

 

[Elguapo916]

Have you tried it at lower volume just for grins? My understanding of RP1(unfortunately haven’t seen it yet) is it has an excellent track with some very well done, very intense bass. The sound to me sounds mechanical, like the driver bottoming out. That’s not a very large sub at 10”, and playing a bad a$$ soundtrack at a decent level in a fairly good sized room will surely be too much for it. I would look into returning it and getting something from Rythmik, HSU or SVS. (Or diy)

So you say it just sounds like a limitation of the subwoofer model itself? That seems lame. I mean I could understand if cranking it would make it bottom out but just playing at a normal level?? I have friends with 10" subs who watch those same scenes and their subs don't bottom out like that. Again, if that is the case I am pretty disappointed since it seemed to get good reviews. Yeah, during that scene from the clip I uploaded, I tried again at about 25% and it might have rattled a little bit. Problem is at that level, that scene is about the only time I can actually notice the subwoofer at all.

 

[Elguapo916]

Change all your speakers to small and see if that helps. I'm sure your mains aren't full range so no need for main+lfe.

They are all set to small. Would main+lfe possibly cause this??

 

[everettT]

They are all set to small. Would main+lfe possibly cause this??

It can muddy the sound if your asking main speakers to handle lfe channel. The rattling is asking the sub to do too much more than likely. Set the subs gain/volume to 10 o'clock and re run the setup, change speakers to small. Also make sure your subs crossover dial is turned all the way up and set the sub to music.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

So you say it just sounds like a limitation of the subwoofer model itself? That seems lame. I mean I could understand if cranking it would make it bottom out but just playing at a normal level?? I have friends with 10" subs who watch those same scenes and their subs don't bottom out like that. Again, if that is the case I am pretty disappointed since it seemed to get good reviews. Yeah, during that scene from the clip I uploaded, I tried again at about 25% and it might have rattled a little bit. Problem is at that level, that scene is about the only time I can actually notice the subwoofer at all.

It does seems kinda lame. But, that IS a pretty heavy duty track, AND the sub is not large and assuming an 8’ ceiling that’s around 2400cuft not including other openings.(also not huge but definitely good size) Subs see the whole airspace available, not just the “listening area” so it could be just trying to pressurize much more volume than it’s capable of. The only 10” sub I would be comfortable with is an rsl speedwoofer, and I would opt for a pair at 799(iirc)
Fwiw, I’m not picking on your setup. I’m just trying to say it’s a lot to ask, and while Yamaha might make a decent enough sub for music, HT has different requirements. I have no idea which reviews you read, or what your friends setups are like either. Maybe you can try one of theirs in your room? Their subs may have higher roll off points, and better driver protection so they’re(the subs) not even trying to play the super low stuff. It’s also entirely possible(but not likely) the unit is defective. Another reason I feel like you might be a candidate for a better sub, is you mentioned that when you turn it up it’s only time you notice it. That’s a good thing, as it’s not adding anything negative in scenes where the sub should be silent. However, most of us bump the sub trim by a few dB’s after Audyssey for a low rent version of a “house curve”. I don’t think you mentioned that, but it would also put more load on any subwoofer.
I could be way off, and maybe somebody smarter can add more to the idea pool...

 

[Elguapo916]

It can muddy the sound if your asking main speakers to handle lfe channel. The rattling is asking the sub to do too much more than likely. Set the subs gain/volume to 10 o'clock and re run the setup, change speakers to small. Also make sure your subs crossover dial is turned all the way up and set the sub to music.

Again, my speakers are all set to small. I followed the guide for setting up a denon receiver from this site. 80Hz crossover and LFE+main 120Hz seems like a normal/safe setting. Am I wrong? I believe I did try hooking up the sub in normal mode and had that same rattle. When the sub volume dial was turned to 25% I could barely hear the rattle...or anything else really

 

[Elguapo916]

It does seems kinda lame. But, that IS a pretty heavy duty track, AND the sub is not large and assuming an 8’ ceiling that’s around 2400cuft not including other openings.(also not huge but definitely good size) Subs see the whole airspace available, not just the “listening area” so it could be just trying to pressurize much more volume than it’s capable of. The only 10” sub I would be comfortable with is an rsl speedwoofer, and I would opt for a pair at 799(iirc)
Fwiw, I’m not picking on your setup. I’m just trying to say it’s a lot to ask, and while Yamaha might make a decent enough sub for music, HT has different requirements. I have no idea which reviews you read, or what your friends setups are like either. Maybe you can try one of theirs in your room? Their subs may have higher roll off points, and better driver protection so they’re(the subs) not even trying to play the super low stuff. It’s also entirely possible(but not likely) the unit is defective. Another reason I feel like you might be a candidate for a better sub, is you mentioned that when you turn it up it’s only time you notice it. That’s a good thing, as it’s not adding anything negative in scenes where the sub should be silent. However, most of us bump the sub trim by a few dB’s after Audyssey for a low rent version of a “house curve”. I don’t think you mentioned that, but it would also put more load on any subwoofer.
I could be way off, and maybe somebody smarter can add more to the idea pool...

Lol, I know you're not picking on my setup. I appreciate your help. I have a couple cheaper subwoofers, one is at most a 10" sub the other is less, and they don't bottom out like this one does.

Well, it isn't so much that when I turn it up I notice it, I typically leave it at 50%. At that volume it rattled like crazy during that scene(I have watched other movies and deep bassy moments make it rattle a bit too). If I lower the volume I might not hear the rattle, but then I hardly notice the thing is on at all. And for THAT reason I am concerned it might be an issue with the sub itself because if that is the case, what bother having a subwoofer at all? 10" or not, a $500 sub, IMHO, shouldn't bottom out/rattle at normal listening levels like that. Maybe my expectations are too high.

Lol, don't laugh, but the reviews I checked out were amazon and these two.
http://www.toptenreviews.com/electronics/home-entertainment/best-home-subwoofers/yamaha-review/
http://i.nextmedia.com.au/Assets/yamaha_ns_sw300_subwoofer_review_test_lores.pdf

I'll be honest, with the nextmedia one, I looked at the lab results at the bottom and tried to understand that jibberish. All I saw was that it said it showed "exemplary performance," and called it good haha. By reading that, does that help with your understanding at all? =)

 

[Elguapo916]

BTW, thank you all for responding. I am just trying to figure this out and I really appreciate your help

 

[lovinthehd]

Instead of lfe+main 120 hz do you mean LPF of LFE setting? That would be the normal setting for that...

What master volume setting when this happens?

Sent from my SM-J337V using Tapatalk

 

[Elguapo916]

Yeah. I just wrote it like that because, at least on my receiver, those two things are listed together so I figured putting them together would just be easier. Subwoofer mode : LFE+Main; LPF for LFE : 120Hz. Master volume is around 50-60ish?

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeah. I just wrote it like that because, at least on my receiver, those two things are listed together so I figured putting them together would just be easier. Subwoofer mode : LFE+Main; LPF for LFE : 120Hz. Master volume is around 50-60ish?

LFE+Main is different than the low pass filter setting for the LFE channel....but if all your speakers are set to small you may as well just use the LFE setting since LFE+Main only is meaningful for speakers set to large.

That isn't a very high volume level (roughly -30 to -20 dB from reference). I'm thinking the sub is simply defective. I'd probably open it up and see if it's something that simply needs securing before returning it (you can still return it?).

 

[TLS Guy]

Yeah. I just wrote it like that because, at least on my receiver, those two things are listed together so I figured putting them together would just be easier. Subwoofer mode : LFE+Main; LPF for LFE : 120Hz. Master volume is around 50-60ish?

Your problem with this unit is that it is a poorly conceived design and overall function therefore lamentable.

You have probably relied on consumer reports. I have found one third party review from the Yamaha website with some measurements.

The review is full of praise despite evidence to the contrary. I'm sure there was a generous backhander somewhere.

Anyhow this is a servo sub in a vented cabinet. A bad idea for a start. Servo control is a form of Eq, and vented alignments tolerate Eq poorly.

This is how I get best describe this contraption. So the the spec is 20 to 160 Hz, no 3db points quoted.

So what we have if the LFE input is used is a peak to 93 db output at 90 Hz. It is 18 db down at 20 Hz. So the servo is applying a lot of boost as a vented enclosure would normally be 48 db down 2 octaves below the point of roll off. This would account for the tendency to bottom, as I'm sure there is Eq being applied below the natural 3 db point of 60 Hz for that woofer and box. Anyhow output is 75 db at 20 Hz. Not a lot of use.

Now this where it really gets disgraceful. There is a low pass filter you can engage at 40 Hz. So it rolls off at 40 Hz where the output is 82.5 db So that sleight of hand allows them to show a 3db point of around 25Hz.

So that is no sub. I don't know what you would call it, but sub it is not. I think we should have a competition here for an apt name. Bottom flutterer anyone? That's a start.

What you are reporting is exactly what I would expect from this design. It is entirely predictable.

 

[Elguapo916]

Your problem with this unit is that it is a poorly conceived design and overall function therefore lamentable.

You have probably relied on consumer reports. I have found one third party review from the Yamaha website with some measurements.

The review is full of praise despite evidence to the contrary. I'm sure there was a generous backhander somewhere.

Anyhow this is a servo sub in a vented cabinet. A bad idea for a start. Servo control is a form of Eq, and vented alignments tolerate Eq poorly.

This is how I get best describe this contraption. So the the spec is 20 to 160 Hz, no 3db points quoted.

So what we have if the LFE input is used is a peak to 93 db output at 90 Hz. It is 18 db down at 20 Hz. So the servo is applying a lot of boost as a vented enclosure would normally be 48 db down 2 octaves below the point of roll off. This would account for the tendency to bottom, as I'm sure there is Eq being applied below the natural 3 db point of 60 Hz for that woofer and box. Anyhow output is 75 db at 20 Hz. Not a lot of use.

Now this where it really gets disgraceful. There is a low pass filter you can engage at 40 Hz. So it rolls off at 40 Hz where the output is 82.5 db So that sleight of hand allows them to show a 3db point of around 25Hz.

So that is no sub. I don't know what you would call it, but sub it is not. I think we should have a competition here for an apt name. Bottom flutterer anyone? That's a start.

What you are reporting is exactly what I would expect from this design. It is entirely predictable.

yyyyyyiiiikes. I didn't understand half of what you just said, but of the half I did, basically that sub is a piece of crap and eat the loss and return it. Well is there any sub you would recommend around that same price point(~$500)? What about the RSL speedwoofer?

 

[shadyJ]

It doesn't sound like its bottoming out, but its obviously experiencing some kind of stress. It may be a soft-bottoming, where the spider is hitting the top-plate rather than the former hitting the backplate? It may be hitting some kind of limiter and is making clipping noises perhaps? Maybe Audyssey over-boosted the low-end? The response shape is more like I would expect to see from a sealed sub rather than a ported sub. Regardless, this sub isn't up to the task of doing what the OP wants it to so. I would be looking at higher performers.

 

[lovinthehd]

SVS has two subs at the $500 price point. Rythmik has one just a bit above, as does Hsu.

 

[shadyJ]

yyyyyyiiiikes. I didn't understand half of what you just said, but of the half I did, basically that sub is a piece of crap and eat the loss and return it. Well is there any sub you would recommend around that same price point(~$500)? What about the RSL speedwoofer?

The RSL Speedwoofer looks like a fine sub. I would also look at the Monoprice Monolith 10" THX. Hsu has two killer subs, the VTF-1 and VTF-2, at the $450 and $600 price points respectively. SVS has the PB-1000 for $500. Rythmik has the LV12r for $550. Any of those subs would handily outperform the Yamaha I believe.