Novice Help Request - Received two bids and could use your insight

T

TexanRock11

Enthusiast
Hello!

We had two awesome AV guys come out this weekend to take a look at our new outdoor kitchen build. They quoted us the two options below to tie in with our house Sonos system.

Outdoor space has a huge gable ceiling so we are putting in 4 8" speakers and connecting them to the TV and Sonos system. We opted to not look at including a sound bar and sub.

Can you take a look and give feedback on quality, price, etc? I am a novice and could use your help.

Thank you!

Option 1:

Denon DRA- 800H -- $499
Episode ES-550T -IC-8 -- $475/pair
Binary B6-4K-.7 -- $22.50 each, will need 4
Binary B-230-HDSPLTR-1x2 -- $85
Binary B-320-1CAT-HDIR -- $319
Strong SM-CS-ART2-L - $439
A/V install -- $375

Option 2:

Savant Archt-8 --$599 per pair
Strong SM-F-L -- $115
AVPro Edge AC-EX40-444-KIT -- $425
Yamaha RXV685BL -- $559
A/V install -- $480

Thank you!
 
T

TexanRock11

Enthusiast
Yamaha receiver - https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/rx-v685_u/index.html

Denon -


Episode speakers -

Savant speakers -
 
T

TexanRock11

Enthusiast
Any thoughts on the episode speakers vs the savant speakers?

Also, thoughts on the Denon vs Yamaha receiver?
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Any thoughts on the episode speakers vs the savant speakers?

Also, thoughts on the Denon vs Yamaha receiver?
Don’t know of savant speakers. But episode are basically builder grade. Cheap junk with more focus on profit than performance.
I personally like denon/Marantz over Yamaha. Notes on reliability will be conjecture, but I don’tile navigating Yamahas and their language is largely priories day unnecessary. Don’t like their menus either. Other guys here however DO love them. Just offering my .02.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Wow. Followed the link to savant. I found listings of Revel speakers.
Those would be an easy choice over the episode lines.
 
T

TexanRock11

Enthusiast
I have best buy coming tomorrow to give me a quote.

Also thinking of buying online at crutchfield.com but need to talk to them bc I have no idea how this tuff works
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
William, are you saying you like the savant revel over the savant archt-8?
Well Revel is a Harmon brand, big sister to JBL and infinity. Seems that “savant” is just an outlet to sell them. In the link, I didn’t see archt-8. Not sure what that is, unless I’m missing something...definitely possible.
“Episode” is a brand of cheap contractor grade in wall speakers. So I guess what I’m sayin is yes, I do like Revel, as a brand in general, and especially over the episode speakers.
 
T

TexanRock11

Enthusiast
Well Revel is a Harmon brand, big sister to JBL and infinity. Seems that “savant” is just an outlet to sell them. In the link, I didn’t see archt-8. Not sure what that is, unless I’m missing something...definitely possible.
“Episode” is a brand of cheap contractor grade in wall speakers. So I guess what I’m sayin is yes, I do like Revel, as a brand in general, and especially over the episode speakers.
Ok got ya, try this link. It's the ARCHT-8 page. Looks like brand is Architectural

 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
As far as installation goes, it's mostly a matter of hooking up proper connections (easy) and settings in gear (maybe a bit less easy). I'd never pay anyone to do it for me....
 
T

TexanRock11

Enthusiast
As far as installation goes, it's mostly a matter of hooking up proper connections (easy) and settings in gear (maybe a bit less easy). I'd never pay anyone to do it for me....
Where I run into trouble is having the TV, speakers all tie in and also work on sonos system. That is the hard part.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Where I run into trouble is having the TV, speakers all tie in and also work on sonos system. That is the hard part.
RTFM(s) gets you a long ways :) Sonos never even been tempted so am behind the eight ball so to speak in that respect.
 
G

GeneC

Junior Audioholic
Hello!

We had two awesome AV guys come out this weekend to take a look at our new outdoor kitchen build. They quoted us the two options below to tie in with our house Sonos system.

Outdoor space has a huge gable ceiling so we are putting in 4 8" speakers and connecting them to the TV and Sonos system. We opted to not look at including a sound bar and sub.

Can you take a look and give feedback on quality, price, etc? I am a novice and could use your help.

Thank you!

Option 1:

Denon DRA- 800H -- $499
Episode ES-550T -IC-8 -- $475/pair
Binary B6-4K-.7 -- $22.50 each, will need 4
Binary B-230-HDSPLTR-1x2 -- $85
Binary B-320-1CAT-HDIR -- $319
Strong SM-CS-ART2-L - $439
A/V install -- $375

Option 2:

Savant Archt-8 --$599 per pair
Strong SM-F-L -- $115
AVPro Edge AC-EX40-444-KIT -- $425
Yamaha RXV685BL -- $559
A/V install -- $480

Thank you!
Episode is not a "Cheap contractor grade" speaker and the Savant archt-8 is not Revel. While Episode did make some in-expensive models for those on a budget they also made some very high quality products. I have owned many of there in-walls and bookshelves over the last few years. The Archt-8's are made by Artisian which was purchased by Savant recently. Neither of them is worth anywhere near the prices quoted. But installers generally add extra profit in the equipment, much like a car dealers service dept. Personally, I wouldn't spend more then $200 a pair on outdoor speakers. But then again, I would be installing them myself.

Ac4l.com has good prices on new/refurbished models from a few different companies. https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/spkinceiling/speakers/in-ceiling-speakers/1.html?woofer_size[]=8"
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
The Sonance speakers are the best you have listed, by far, IME. They are a serious step up with aimable drivers and much higher build quality than typical speakers.

If you want to get reasonable audio, then you can go with something far more budget oriented and get good sound. Keeping in mind, that I bet this space isn't at all designed for good audio quality. If the room isn't designed for best audio quality, putting in top shelf speakers won't make it sound like a cathedral. It will sound like a weak room with so-so speakers at best.

I have put B&W in-ceiling speakers (6.5") head to head with Monoprice 8" in-ceiling speakers, and there was no question that the larger Monoprice speakers simply sounded better in their less than ideal space.

That's under $100 a pair.

I'm not sure why the first contract includes a HDMI splitter that doesn't handle 4K60/18Gbs video. That seems like a waste. But, there may be a reason. It's just pricey for a HDMI 1.4 device. Likewise, the cables are a bit expensive. But, appropriate for the typical contractor.

I would not get all that hung up on labor pricing vs. materials pricing. Instead, look at the bottom line. If they are close, then overall you should expect similar price structuring. My labor rates, by example, tend to be high, but then I value the crap out of their materials so that the bottom line works out nicely. I don't make a ton on materials, but the labor rate is appropriate to my area.

Denon vs. Yamaha is always a question.

There is nothing that impresses me about the Episode vs. Savant speakers that make me believe for a second that they will sound much better than the Monoprice speakers.

Yamaha vs. Denon is a toss up. Both manufacturers are solid quality and a good value for the money. It's a coin flip there.

The Strong mounts are ... mediocre. If you want an excellent articulating mount, then Chief is a cut above, and you will pay for it. If you want to work on a budget then keep in mind that the two companies specified completely different mounts. One is articulating, the other is fixed. Fixed mounts are a good deal less money for a quality mount, but should never cost more than $100. Articulating mounts DEMAND quality to support a display and to work well. So, they cost more.
Monoprice, again...
Heavy duty, articulating, dual arm mount: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12280
Heavy duty, tilting, extra wide mount: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=6663

Neither of these passes $100. I might 'double' the price and be very happy with my profit margin and you would still only be paying about $100 a mount.

If you buy everything yourself, these companies MUST up their installation costs to cover their actual expenses.

A fair question is to where the equipment will be located in relation to the TV and the speakers. It seems that they both offered HDMI extender systems. But only the SECOND company included a unit which supports 18Gb/s HDMI. The first company stops with 1080p stuff. This is a problem as it eliminates a potential upgrade path which you may need in the future. But once, save later.

Looking at these two proposals, the second company does a better job with future proofing and I like the Yamaha surround receiver over the stereo receiver (personal preference really). I might opt for an articulating TV mount as that will make things much better long term. If you want to get a couple of components on your own to provide, then they may keep labor the same and allow you to do so. Pick up that Monoprice articulating mount and a couple of pairs of Sonance (or Monoprice) speakers and save a few hundred bucks but then get the better HDMI extender and perhaps cleaner install.

Do NOT think for a second that all installations are 'the same'. They are not. I know I label all cabling and make sure that equipment is HDMI2.0 compatible from the start.

The lack of HDMI cables specified in the second contract bugs me a bit. Perhaps pick up some HDMI cables that are certified at 18Gb/s from Monoprice while you are there...
At a few bucks each, and at different lengths, it won't break the bank to add a few.

You have options. I use Monoprice all the time as one of my suppliers and while I don't advertise it as anything more than a 'contractor brand', I do emphasize that most people simply don't have the room to appreciate high quality in-ceiling speakers, and a 'high-quality' in-ceiling speaker is typically NOT what they are purchasing. They are just buying the same $80 pair of Monoprice speakers except paying hundreds of dollars more.
 
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