NHT SuperZero 2.0 in 3.1 setup

[alphaiii]

I had my SuperZeros for 10 yrs and had I set the xover @ 80Hz for 10 yrs on my NHT SW2P subwoofer and they sounded great.

BTW.... while it may sound just fine to you... it doesn't mean using an 80Hz xover didn't result in a dip in frequency around the xover...

The SZ just doesn't have meaningful bass... See Stereophile's measurements...
It's -6dB at 88Hz... and the roll off begins above 120Hz... maybe higher, but hard to tell from the graph...
http://www.stereophile.com/content/nht-superzero-loudspeaker-sw2-subwoofer-measurements

Of course, these are "quasi-anechoic" measurements, so in room, depending on placement, you might get a bit of a boost down low...

Still, I stand by my comments that the SZ 2.0 has basically no bass, and requires a high xover... If wall mounted, or right up against the wall... maybe 100Hz would work... but on stands out from the wall... I wouldn't use anything less that 120Hz, if not higher... based on my experience.

 

[davy12]

BTW.... while it may sound just fine to you... it doesn't mean using an 80Hz xover didn't result in a dip in frequency around the xover...

The SZ just doesn't have meaningful bass... See Stereophile's measurements...
It's -6dB at 88Hz... and the roll off begins above 120Hz... maybe higher, but hard to tell from the graph...
http://www.stereophile.com/content/nht-superzero-loudspeaker-sw2-subwoofer-measurements

Of course, these are "quasi-anechoic" measurements, so in room, depending on placement, you might get a bit of a boost down low...

Still, I stand by my comments that the SZ 2.0 has basically no bass, and requires a high xover... If wall mounted, or right up against the wall... maybe 100Hz would work... but on stands out from the wall... I wouldn't use anything less that 120Hz, if not higher... based on my experience.

Thanks for your comments. Just so that I understand this, what is the issue with having a high crossover say at 120hz or 150hz ? If you have a good sub is that a problem?

 

[alphaiii]

Thanks for your comments. Just so that I understand this, what is the issue with having a high crossover say at 120hz or 150hz ? If you have a good sub is that a problem?

The only issue is that, as you get higher in bass frequencies... it becomes easier to localize where the bass is coming from...

Usually, its stated that you can start to localize bass above 100Hz...

If you have a good sub... and more importantly, can place it between the mains... this is less of an issue and you can still get a proper blend between the sub and speakers...

 

[davy12]

Ok, i now have a final curve ball, one of retailers that I called said they can lower the price on CB-10s/cc-10s combo

so between these two which falls around the same price

1. CB10/CC10s with Sub BIC f12 or H100 (i cannot replace a high priced sub that will make it go beyond my budget)

2. 3 SuperZeros with Emotiva sub 10

which one should I go with?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

BTW.... while it may sound just fine to you... it doesn't mean using an 80Hz xover didn't result in a dip in frequency around the xover...

The SZ just doesn't have meaningful bass... See Stereophile's measurements...
It's -6dB at 88Hz... and the roll off begins above 120Hz... maybe higher, but hard to tell from the graph...
http://www.stereophile.com/content/nht-superzero-loudspeaker-sw2-subwoofer-measurements

Of course, these are "quasi-anechoic" measurements, so in room, depending on placement, you might get a bit of a boost down low...

Still, I stand by my comments that the SZ 2.0 has basically no bass, and requires a high xover... If wall mounted, or right up against the wall... maybe 100Hz would work... but on stands out from the wall... I wouldn't use anything less that 120Hz, if not higher... based on my experience.

Yeah, perhaps my in-room bass response was around 80Hz @ -3dB, as opposed to 88Hz quasi-anechoic.

But 100Hz or 120Hz would cover all the bases (or bass.).

Everyone will differ on opinion, so I would not set the xover higher than 120Hz.

 

[zieglj01]

Ok, i now have a final curve ball, one of retailers that I called said they can lower the price on CB-10s/cc-10s combo

so between these two which falls around the same price

1. CB10/CC10s with Sub BIC f12 or H100 (i cannot replace a high priced sub that will make it go beyond my budget)

2. 3 SuperZeros with Emotiva sub 10

which one should I go with?

The final decision comes down to the buyer - For me I choose
neither one. If you can't decide, then flip a coin. I will say that
the little SuperZero is special.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Are there any objective measurements on the Energy CB-10?

At least you have the Stereophile review and measurements of the NHT SuperZero.

When it comes to bookshelf speakers, bass isn't the determining factor to me; it is the midrange accuracy and treble smoothness. The subwoofer can handle the bass.

 

[alphaiii]

When it comes to bookshelf speakers, bass isn't the determining factor to me; it is the midrange accuracy and treble smoothness.

I agree that bass shouldn't be a single determining factor...

As mentioned, I think the SZ 2.0 beats the CB-5 in mids/highs... particularly midrange.

If you can place them well (SZ close to rear wall, and sub between the mains)... and don't need to listen at really loud volume... I think the SZ 2.0 could work just fine. I do think the SZ 2.0 is a little small for a 13x19 room... but if you don't listen loud, and value clarity/detail over rocking out... they can probably make you happy.

If bass extension and dynamics/ability to play loud are more important... I'd think the CB-10/CC-10 is a better choice.

The CB-5 are ok... but unless you can get them really cheap ($80 or less per pair), I'd skip them.... which it seems like you've already decided to do.

 

[davy12]

I agree that bass shouldn't be a single determining factor...

As mentioned, I think the SZ 2.0 beats the CB-5 in mids/highs... particularly midrange.

If you can place them well (SZ close to rear wall, and sub between the mains)... and don't need to listen at really loud volume... I think the SZ 2.0 could work just fine. I do think the SZ 2.0 is a little small for a 13x19 room... but if you don't listen loud, and value clarity/detail over rocking out... they can probably make you happy.

If bass extension and dynamics/ability to play loud are more important... I'd think the CB-10/CC-10 is a better choice.

The CB-5 are ok... but unless you can get them really cheap ($80 or less per pair), I'd skip them.... which it seems like you've already decided to do.

Just to get a feel for the Superzero's speaker size/sensitivity, I borrowed CB-5s from my friend and listened to them in my room today and it was good/loud enough for us (CB-5 has 89dB and superzeros 86dB, though there is difference I wanted to get a sense of how it will be)

I am not sure if I am asking this right but would anything over -5dB volume for a dvd playback on my Denon 1911 be considered loud? (because I played cb-5s till these and that was really loud for us)

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

would anything over -5dB volume for a dvd playback on my Denon 1911 be considered loud?

I would consider that loud. But every case is different.

I would get a digital SPL meter and measure how loud that is. You don't want to listen to volume > 90dBA or your hearing will be screwed.

 

[phishphan]

I have two SuperZeros 2.0 and a Hsu VTF-1 sub and I am just floored by the sound these things put out for only $99 each. These things are amazing and I love the classic look they have. Like a poster before said, they have zero bass though so make sure you supplement accordingly.

 

[davy12]

I have two SuperZeros 2.0 and a Hsu VTF-1 sub and I am just floored by the sound these things put out for only $99 each. These things are amazing and I love the classic look they have. Like a poster before said, they have zero bass though so make sure you supplement accordingly.

Nice! what is your room size and do you have issues when it gets louder. Are you not using any center or a different center.
I know VTF-1 is a better sub but I am planning to go with Emotiva Sub 10 since that is the only good sub that is under my budget.

 

[phishphan]

Nice! what is your room size and do you have issues when it gets louder. Are you not using any center or a different center.
I know VTF-1 is a better sub but I am planning to go with Emotiva Sub 10 since that is the only good sub that is under my budget.

My room is 16 x 18 with 9 foot ceilings. The speakers do not feel small or lost at all. They produce such beautiful sound. (I swear, I don't work for NHT.) Someone in this forum actually suggested them and I did a ton of research on them and given the price point it was worth a shot.

I have not experienced any distortion in them at all and I've cranked them pretty dang loud. (My receiver delivers 100 watts per channel.) I gave them a real run for their money with Nights in White Satin and the entire Dark Side of the Moon album straight through. Delicate highs and full mids. Absolutely blew me away.

Make sure you get a good sub or you'll be missing the lower half of everything. The Hsu is unbelievable. The thing really hits hard. The heartbeat at the beginning of Dark Side, dang.

Anyway, I want to thank AcuDefTechGuy who is the one who turned me on to the NHTs.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My room is 16 x 18 with 9 foot ceilings. The speakers do not feel small or lost at all. They produce such beautiful sound. (I swear, I don't work for NHT.) Someone in this forum actually suggested them and I did a ton of research on them and given the price point it was worth a shot.

I have not experienced any distortion in them at all and I've cranked them pretty dang loud. (My receiver delivers 100 watts per channel.) I gave them a real run for their money with Nights in White Satin and the entire Dark Side of the Moon album straight through. Delicate highs and full mids. Absolutely blew me away.

Make sure you get a good sub or you'll be missing the lower half of everything. The Hsu is unbelievable. The thing really hits hard. The heartbeat at the beginning of Dark Side, dang.

Anyway, I want to thank AcuDefTechGuy who is the one who turned me on to the NHTs.

You welcome.

I don't own NHT SZ anymore; my little brother now owns them.

But the NHT speakers do sound fantastic.

 

[davy12]

Emovita Sub vs NHT B-10d

Assuming price is not a factor and these are my only two options.

Emotiva Sub 10 and NHT's B-10d, which one is a better sub to go with 3 NHT SuperZero fronts and a 60% Movies/40% music usage.

[Only between these two subs I am not looking at anything else]

 

[puckhead]

I'd go with the Emotiva Ultra 10. It's bigger and will go lower than the NHT for movies, and it'll provide good clean bass for music (I've got one in a small 2.1 system and I'm more than happy with it).

While I haven't heard the NHT 8", I think the Emotiva is a solid choice for both movies and music that fits within your budget. Another plus (based on a quick look) is that the Emotiva is on closeout for $299 with free shipping, while the NHT is $349 not including shipping.

 

[alphaiii]

I'd go with the Emotiva Ultra 10. It's bigger and will go lower than the NHT for movies, and it'll provide good clean bass for music (I've got one in a small 2.1 system and I'm more than happy with it).

While I haven't heard the NHT 8", I think the Emotiva is a solid choice for both movies and music that fits within your budget. Another plus (based on a quick look) is that the Emotiva is on closeout for $299 with free shipping, while the NHT is $349 not including shipping.

The sub he is asking about... the B10d... is NHT's new 10" sealed sub. Right now it's going price is $499...

 

[davy12]

The sub he is asking about... the B10d... is NHT's new 10" sealed sub. Right now it's going price is $499...

how do you read or what to look for in the subwoofer specs. I see emotiva frequency response as 25Hz‐200Hz and the nht b-10d as
-3dB 29Hz - 130Hz, -6dB 27Hz, -10dB 25Hz


so even emotiva does go lower, is difference between 25hz and 29 huge?

Anything else to look for? (both have 300watts and similarly sized and sealed subs, NHT has something called air-suspension and DSP engine not sure if they had significant value ?

NHT sub is approx. $70 more than emotiva subs.

 

[alphaiii]

how do you read or what to look for in the subwoofer specs. I see emotiva frequency response as 25Hz‐200Hz and the nht b-10d as
-3dB 29Hz - 130Hz, -6dB 27Hz, -10dB 25Hz


so even emotiva does go lower, is difference between 25hz and 29 huge?

Anything else to look for? (both have 300watts and similarly sized and sealed subs, NHT has something called air-suspension and DSP engine not sure if they had significant value ?

NHT sub is approx. $70 more than emotiva subs.

You have to take some specs with a bit of a grain of salt.

For example... the frequency response specs for the Emotiva Ultra 10 are "typical in-room"... which really doesn't tell you much about the response of the sub independent of room effects... and really isn't all that informative of response in your particular room, since room effects vary considerably.

NHT doesn't specify whether the response for the B10d is ground plane or in-room...

What I'm getting at is that the B10d may actually play lower than the Ultra 10... but it's tough to know without actual ground plane and/or in-room (same room at exact same location) measurements of each sub.

Acoustic suspension is just a fancy way of saying it's a sealed sub...

DPS = digital signal processing... which means the xover, equalization, limiter, ect., are all controlled in the digital domain...

 

[zieglj01]

Just for exploration;
If you are open to spend $499 on the B-10 > then I wouild at least,
look at the Epik Legend - for your info
http://epiksubwoofers.com/legend.html