Newbie's $4k HT Project: The Speakers

[enkidu]

Hey guys,

As you can see by my post count, I'm a total noob here. I've been reading and reading (and reading and reading) for quite some time now, trying to put together a starter set for me and my wife in our apartment with a budget of bout $4k. It'll be used for equal music and HT, with the music being a mix of classical, jazz and pop. We're starting with the bare basics so we can build gradually. Our living room is smallish (15x18), but is open to the kitchen and dining area. So far, we've decided (FIRMLY so please don't confuse me more ) on the following:

Display: Samsung LN-S4695D. I demoed it at Fry's and love the picture.

Source: Oppo Digital - DV-981HD. I looked at the dvd quality review linked from here. Thanks!

Receiver: Yamaha RX-V659 A/V. This looks like the killer bang/buck right now and has all of the features, 7.1 in particular, I figure I'll need for a few years. Also, I don't have much need for HDMI switching since I don't expect to have a very complicated setup.

To this set of equipment, I expect to add an HD or BluRay DVD player in the near future. I expect the RX-V659 to last several years before moving to a secondary room role, or perhaps stay primary and be augmented with a few power amps depending on requirements. These three end up taking about $2.5k of our $4k budget.

BTW, I hate having to replace things away and would like to get enough quality this time around so I can continue to use them instead of having to trade up.

Now the tough part, the speakers. At first we were set on starting with a set of four x-ls's for LR and surround and an x-cs for center with a Hsu or SVS subwoofer. That would actually leave lots of room on our budget, but when I thought about upgrade paths, it felt like we would eventually want to replace the x-ls's which I want to avoid. I thought about stepping up to NHT or RBH's but I feel like anything we wouldn't want to replace (MC-6C's or Three's) would totally bust our budget. So among the sets we have considered:

4x x-ls (or 2x x-ls + 2x x-cs)
1x x-cs
1x subwoofer
~$1100

4x Usher S-520
1x Usher S-525
1x subwoofer
~$1600

4x RBH MC-4C MKII
1x RBH MC-414C
1x subwoofer
~$1500

4x NHT Zero's
1x NHT Zero Center
1x subwoofer
~$1600

5x Ascend CMT-340 SE
~$1200

1x Axiom Audio VP100 C
2x Axiom Audio M22
2x Axiom Audio QS4
1x Axiom Audio EP350
~$1800

Stands will probably add another $200 across the board for any of these. Haven't decided on a subwoofer, but it will have to be around $400 or so if I get one. Aren't interested in getting floorstanders for various reasons, in particular since I want to be able to reuse the speakers in a smaller room as I shuffle things around.

We're leaning very heavily towards getting 5x CMT-340 SE's and no subwoofer to ensure that we stay under budget. My wife likes the industrial minimalist look, I like the reviews the products have gotten, and the company owner seems like my kind of guy. If we go with this setup, I plan on gradually adding a subwoofer, replacing the front 3 with Ascend Sierra-1's and moving the LR to the back to make a full 7.1 setup.

Alternatively, I could do a similar move around with NHT's (starting with 4x Zero's + Center + subwoofer) or RBH's (starting with 4x MC-4C's + 1x MC414C + subwoofer) but both of those options put me over budget. The NHT's and RBH's will be smaller but since the CMT-340's have already passed the WAF, I don't feel any need to push for smaller speakers. The CMT-340's have the added bonus of being great speakers if moved to other rooms for simple stereo duties...

WRT to auditioning, I know it is lame, but I don't really seem myself taking delivery of 3 different sets (or even just LR pairs) to try them out and returning the two I don't like and filling out the rest of the set over the course of a couple of months. Don't know of a place where I can audition the Onix's, Ascends, NHTs or Axioms, so if I did audition the RBH set I really wouldn't have anything to compare against...

Of course, just as I'm about to post this, you guys release the 2007 bookshelf speaker shootout, I guess I'll have to read that soon.

Any comments, suggestions?

 

[zumbo]

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NHTKC2B

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATKLS500
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2-mk3.html

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENKC500
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2-mk3.html

http://www.onecall.com/ProductSearch.aspx?N=0&Ntt=rti+8&D=rti+8
http://www.onecall.com/ProductSearch.aspx?N=0&Ntt=rti+6&D=rti+6
http://www.onecall.com/ProductSearch.aspx?N=0&Ntt=csi+5&D=csi+5
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2-mk3.html

To me, the Polk system with the HSU sub for $1669.41 (shipped) is the killer here.

 

[zumbo]

OOPS! I missed the "no floorstander" part. Well, you could get the RTi bookshelf all around with the HSU sub. That should free-up some money for the stands.

On the other hand, the NHT system looks right in line with your budget. While the NHT 10" sub is no match for the HSU 12", it may keep that eviction notice away a little longer. I guess once you add stands to this, it's up around 2k.

So, two pair of these:
http://www.onecall.com/ProductSearch.aspx?N=0&Ntt=rti+6&D=rti+6
One of these:
http://www.onecall.com/ProductSearch.aspx?N=0&Ntt=csi+5&D=csi+5
And one of these:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2-mk3.html

$1401.82 total shipped.

 

[enkidu]

Thanks Zumbo. Yeah, the NHT's definitely punch through the budget. I guess I could hold off a month or so to step up to the NHT's, but if I go that route, then I'll want to wait another month or so to step up again etc. etc.

Thanks for the Polk suggestions. I'd read about them here and there, but hadn't really put them high on the list. Looks like a good setup and amenable to the kind of shifting that I'm thinking of.

 

[agarwalro]

For the 15x18 room with bookshelf speakers the subwoofer will be a must have.

Here is a recent bookshelf speaker review, 2007 Bookshelf speaker review

 

[enkidu]

For the 15x18 room with bookshelf speakers the subwoofer will be a must have.

Here is a recent bookshelf speaker review, 2007 Bookshelf speaker review (no link cause I'm a n00b)

Thanks agarwairo! Based on the various reviews I'd read and our current expectations of bass levels (and our neighbor's expectations) I was hoping that the low level capabilities of the Ascends would be enough for now.

Anyway, I read through the review and I got some new ideas. My wife, on the other hand, just wants to get the decision over with. I'm now thinking of ordering a pair of CMT340 SE's to demo after I get the receiver to test them out. Then deciding from there whether to continue with my current plan of CMT340SE's or varying the plan with the addition of a subwoofer or perhaps eliminating the CMT340's as an option and going with another option (perhaps the Polk's) altogether.

 

[Davemcc]

The CMT340SE's look like a fairly easy load for a decent, yet inexpensive amplifier to drive based on the specs. You might consider 3 x CMT340SE across the front and 2 x CBM170SE as surround. This is more budget friendly and there's no need for 5 matching speakers just to play movie surround effects. Use the savings to move up the HSU sub line, from the STF-1 to an STF-2, VTF-1 or VTF-2.

You may not think you need a sub, but you do. The sub doesn't have to be played loud, but those frequencies do need to be there to get the full effect of a movie soundtrack or music. As an added benefit, the sub relieves the main speakers and the amp of producing the lowest bass, allowing them to reproduce the other frequencies better.

 

[jcPanny]

Speaker Upgrade path

Since you plan on a gradual upgrade path you might consider starting with a 2.1 system the RBH MC6's or Ascend Sierras. Both did very well in the shoutout and my conclusion was that you get what you pay for in the $200, $400, and $800 speaker price brackets.

For the video souce, if you don't plan on using SACD of DVD-A, check out the Toshiba HDA2 for about $250. An HD source would take full advantage of your new display. I have one of the Oppos and they are a good option to wait out the format war.

Finally, the newer Yamaha RX-V661 has HDMI audio and switching and would allow you to get the multichannel PCM audio tracks from a HD-DVD or BluRay player.

Don't know if they are authorized, but these RBH prices are a lot less than retail: http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/index.php?cPath=35_30_47&sort=&filter_id=45

 

[enkidu]

Thanks guys! I've reconsidered an I'm adding a low-end priced but mid-end performance subwoofer and stretch my budget a tiny bit, but not kill it; probably Hsu or SVS. Perhaps around $400 or so. Also, in keeping in line with my keeping things instead of trading up, I realized I could add another subwoofer to go with two subwoofers instead of one, which seems to have several advantages.

I thought about dropping down to the CBM170SE's in back, but it only makes about a $100 difference in price with the current special on the 340's. Of course, I guess I could compromise to 4xCBM170 and a temporary center with the idea of upgrading the front LCR to Sierra's at a later date. Gahr, I guess I could also gradually go mad trying to make this decision...

Thanks jcPanny. Those RBH prices look great. Not too sure about the return policies, warranty coverage etc. I did consider the Toshiba HD-A2 and the 661. I think the HD-A2 was eliminated because of some minor DVD playback issues. The RX-V661 was eliminated primarily because of budget considerations and secondarily because I don't expect to have that many sources: I don't have any video game machines, nor a DVR, nor a HTPC etc. I'm hoping that digital audio out will be sufficient to meet my needs when I move up to a HD or Blu-Ray player.

 

[abefroeman]

Of course, I guess I could compromise to 4xCBM170 and a temporary center with the idea of upgrading the front LCR to Sierra's at a later date.

If you went this route I would set it up differently. Put 3 up front and use a temporary left or right surround.

 

[beakergeek]

Rbh Deal!

Hey, take a closer look at audiophileliquidator.net for RBH. If you buy $750 worth of speakers you get 10% off and if you buy $1500 you get 15% off their already low prices. I just bought an RBH 661-SE/R and (2) RBH 61-SE/R. These are the reference series versions of the signature series so they have the upgraded status accoustics drivers (see review of the system by Gene). I have had no trouble with this company, speakers shipped in original double boxes from RBH and they sound amazing...so glad I went with RBH!

Priced out RBH: 2x 61-SE, 2x 41-SE and 1x 661-SE for $1550 plus shipping (under $100)
Sale goes on through end of august.

 

[nova]

While this may be a good deal money wise,... just remember RBH Sound will not warranty products purchased from an UN-AUTHORIZED dealer like Audiophile Liquidators. Check out link for info on RBH policy. http://www.rbhsound.com/unauthorized_dealers.shtml