Newbie trying to setup my Yamaha V663 – Help!

[StarLily]

Hello Everyone!

The background:
My fiancé and I recently got our first place together and one of the first things we did was go out and get ourselves a big fancy home theater setup. Big LCD TV, Blu-Ray Player, and home theater set up. We did lots of research to make sure we made the right choices and overall it seems like we got the right stuff. Neither of us are audio experts by any stretch, so to play it safe we paid extra to have the Geek Squad come out an set everything up for us.
Sadly, it didn’t quite work out as we hoped. The two guys that delivered the stuff set everything up, plugged it all in, and were very nice guys. However, they were apparently not much more knowledgeable then we are because we quickly realized there was more to setting up then just plugging stuff in. Our first attempt to play a Blu-Ray revealed that the guys hadn’t really calibrated anything right, in fact our Blu-Ray was down-converting the audio signal because it’s setup options hadn’t even been touched. We broke out the manuals and started reading, learning enough to figure out how to make our Blu-Ray player play the correct HD sound formats.
Next, we called up the Geek Squad and asked them to send out someone with more expertise to calibrate our Yamaha RX-V663 and the speaker settings better because that hadn’t been done right either. The sound was all muddy and the bass was so loud every neighbor in the building was coming around to complain about their walls shaking and we STILL couldn’t hear the dialogue properly.
So the Geek Squad’s ‘expert’ came out and used the Yamaha’s microphone and it’s YPAO thingy to calibrate it all properly. Everything SEEMED fine, until we went to watch another Blu-Ray movie. This time only one neighbor came around to complain and we could hear the dialogue half the time at least.
So now we’re doing our homework again and reading the manuals front to back, back to front, and feeling way over our heads. I’ve read a lot of articles and forum posts on this site but we’re still left with some big questions, and I’m praying some of you might be able to help us.
Our living room apartment is decent sized and oddly shaped (not square, and with hallways and doorways leading out all around. We have the Subwoofer in a corner, and our couch is about 9 feet from the TV and front speakers.

The system:
Yamaha RX V663 reciever
Definitive ProSub 800 (Subwoofer)
Definitive BP7006 Bipolar SuperTower x2 (Front speakers)
Definitive ProMonitor 800 Specifications x2 (Surround speakers)
Definitive ProCenter 1000 (Center speaker)

The Questions:
1. I’ve read suggestions that all of the speakers should be set to ‘small’ even if they are large speakers like what we have. Our tower speakers say they can handle Freq. Response: 17 Hz – 30 kHz. Should we still set our two front towers to small, or to large?
2. I’ve read that we should set the crossover on the subwoofer to max, and the volumes on the subwoofer and tower speakers to 12 o’clock. Then do our crossover adjustments in the Receive menus only. I’ve heard 80hz and 60hz as two good options for the crossover. Is this good advice? Any thoughts on which we should do, 80 or 60?
3. The Yamaha’s menu has an option for “LFE signals output” and another for Low-frequency signals output. These are the most confusing settings yet! We have no idea what to select for these options. Our instinct says to set it to “Both” for both. Anybody have any clue what these mean?

LFE signals output
Subwoofer(s) and speakers
Choice Subwoofer - Front Spkrs - Other Spkrs
BOTH: Output - No output - No output
SWFR : Output - No output - No output
FRONT: No output - Output - No output


Low-frequency signals output
Subwoofer(s) and speakers
Choice Subwoofer - Front Spkrs - Other Spkrs
BOTH: *1 - *2 - *3
SWFR : *4 - *3 - *3
FRONT: No output - *1 - *3

*1 Output(s) the low-frequency signals of the front channels and other speakers set to "SMALL"
*2 Always output the low-frequence signals of the front channels
*3 Output the low-frequency signals of the front channels.
*4 Outputs the low-frequence signals of the speakers set to "SMALL" or "NONE"


We would REALLY appreciate any help you all might offer us. We’d really like to watch some movies on our home theater setup without shaking the foundations of our building.

Thank you!

 

[3db]

You need a few things 1st to properly calibrate your HT system;

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/spl-meter_e.html
http://www.radioshack.com/sm-digital-display-sound-level-meter--pi-2103667.html

AND

http://www.amazon.ca/Digital-Video-Essentials-HD-DVD/dp/B000IHYY3Y/ref=pd_bxgy_d_img_a

either Avia audio or DVD essentials.

To answer your questions;

1.) If the Def techs actually go to 17 Hz, then you can leave them as large and try calibrating your system set this way. If calibration turns out ot be tough, then set the mains to small and try again with the calibration.

2.) You need the test DVD anda meter to calibrate your HT properly.

3.) Maybe someone else on board with a Yamaha can answer your question. Perhaps, call Yamaha directly and ask them.

Good luck.

Post edit

Forgot that the Yammy had the self calibration tool onboard . Try running it with the mains manually set to large and then again set to small to see how it sounds to you. I would still purchase these tools incase the YPAO (whatever its called) doesn't give you the results your looking for. Sometimes manual setups are just better.

 

[Davemcc]

Deftechs are unusual in that they have built in powered subs in each speaker. Since too much bass is an issue, you can set all speakers to small and set the crossover to 80 or 60, whichever you are most comfortable with.

It looks like with that configuration, you can set the LFE to SWFR and low frequency signals output to #4.

You may want to invest in a Radio Shack SPL meter to calibrate the bass levels in the towers and sub. It's not really expensive but is very useful. A general setting like "set the volumes to 12:00 is not very useful. If you have too much bass, turn those dials down until you find a more reasonable level. It's not unusual to run subs at 1/4 or less power.

You may be able to use the mains full range for music only by selecting Pure Direct (or equivalent) to eliminate the sub for critical music listening if that's an option you want.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

All those Dts in an apartment seems like trouble to me (neighbors).

It looks like you have a good set up there. Keep the Geek Squad out of your house and learn to do this yourself. Keep reading and asking questions and you will figure it all out.

 

[GlocksRock]

I would set left and right speakers to large, and the rest to small, and not even connect the LFE to the towers, just the sub since you have a dedicated subwoofer. Leave the rest of the speakers crossed over at 80 hz.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

If you leave the LFE off do you lose the powered sub and the woofers become passive and are driven from the AVR secondary to the speakers being set to large?

I have no idea how DTs work but just curious why you would set up this way.

I would set left and right speakers to large, and the rest to small, and not even connect the LFE to the towers, just the sub since you have a dedicated subwoofer. Leave the rest of the speakers crossed over at 80 hz.

 

[GlocksRock]

Just let the sub handle all the LFE, and since the mains would be set to large, the bass from the front le & r that would normally go to the sub, will play from the towers. The towers are designed as full range and should be used as such. Keep in mind that LFE is on it's own channel so you won't be losing out on anything, and the 7006 towers have a very capable sub built in. The LFE input is only for those that don't have or don't want to get a dedicated sub and don't want to lose out on the lfe channel, but the speaker wire is enough to carry bass to the speaker, just let the crossover do it's thing. It's especially nice when you want to listen to music in pure direct mode, you have full range towers that can handle the bass.

 

[CAVU]

Forgot that the Yammy had the self calibration tool onboard. [...] I would still purchase these tools incase the YPAO (whatever its called) doesn't give you the results your looking for. Sometimes manual setups are just better.

The onboard YPAO is going to provide the OP with significantly superior results to any he, a neophyte, might attempt to obtain with broadband toy Ratshack SPL meters!

In fact, it will probably provide better results than an experienced user with the same gear!

Sending him out to buy a bunch of stuff is bogus.

Once he has run the YPAO, he can select bass management options to suit his taste, confident that the levels and time delays have been accurately set.

 

[GlocksRock]

The onboard YPAO is going to provide the OP with significantly superior results to any he, a neophyte, might attempt to obtain with broadband toy Ratshack SPL meters!

In fact, it will probably provide better results than an experienced user with the same gear!

Sending him out to buy a bunch of stuff is bogus.

Once he has run the YPAO, he can select bass management options to suit his taste, confident that the levels and time delays have been accurately set.

Are you serious? The YPAO gives inconsistent reulsts each time it's ran... nothing is better than manual calibration.

 

[jamie2112]

Are you serious? The YPAO gives inconsistent reulsts each time it's ran... nothing is better than manual calibration.

Agreed 110%...

 

[AVRat]

Follow Glocks advice. The LFE/Bass out should be set to "SWFR", the tables on pg.85 are references for what's happening with the signals, not options.

If you use the LFE input on the sub, the sub's x-over is disabled for that input. In your apt. situation, setting the sub's gain at about 9-10 o'clock is probably wise. The 663 also has an LFE level adjusment, pg. 91, if you would also like to adjust it specifically.

 

[3db]

The onboard YPAO is going to provide the OP with significantly superior results to any he, a neophyte, might attempt to obtain with broadband toy Ratshack SPL meters!

In fact, it will probably provide better results than an experienced user with the same gear!

Sending him out to buy a bunch of stuff is bogus.

Once he has run the YPAO, he can select bass management options to suit his taste, confident that the levels and time delays have been accurately set.

I disagree with you, respectfully so I might add.

The thing is, I saw way too many posts where YPAO has incorrectly set speaker sizes, some where distance measurements were off etc. It never hurts to have a manual backup and its definitely not bogus.

 

[santeini]

Some manufactures recommend that all the speakers are set to small if you are using a sub. I personally tuned many system for my friends, which always end up setting the speakers to small when using a sub. This setting seems to yield better result, and since your sub response is from 20-150Hz, you can try both the 60Hz and 80Hz and hear which sounds right. You already have an answer for your second question. Yes you can follow the manufactures recommendation. For your third question, just choose #4.
Most auto calibration don,t seem to work as the manufactures intended, probably because our set up environment is not as perfect as theirs and they seems to keep forgetting it. Therefore, do your self a favor by getting a sound meter and a measuring tape and follow the manual to do the settings

 

[jcPanny]

Yapo

I have had good results with the YAPO system accurately and consistently setting the speaker levels and distances. Several Yamaha reviews have reported the same. The main benefit of the SPL meter is to set the levels, and YAPO can handle this.

After the auto setup, you will have to manually adjust the speaker size, and crossover settings. You can also experiment with turning the PEQ feature on and off. I am not using the PEQ on my entry level Yamaha.

I agree with several of the above posts that the floorstanders with powered woofers complicate the setup. It also makes their location and distance from the wall more critcal. Start with the mains set to SMALL and an 80 Hz crossover until you get the rest of the system dialed in.

 

[StarLily]

Thank you all SO much for your advice and help! I think we've got some good suggestions to try out.

The one thing we're still lost about is the Low-frequency signals thing, and that's really my fault because the handy table I made in word just didn't come through in this post. There are three options for setting the Low-frequency signals outut: BOTH, SWFR, and FRONT. Maybe this will help better:

Low-frequency signals output choices:
BOTH: (Subwoofer =*1) (Front Spkrs=*2) ( Other Spkrs = *3)
SWFR : (Subwoofer =*4) (Front Spkrs =*3) (Other Spkrs = *3)
FRONT: (Subwoofer =No output) (Front Spkrs= *1) (Other Spkrs = *3)

*1 Output(s) the low-frequency signals of the front channels and other speakers set to "SMALL"
*2 Always output the low-frequence signals of the front channels
*3 Output the low-frequency signals of the front channels.
*4 Outputs the low-frequence signals of the speakers set to "SMALL" or "NONE"

So can anyone suggest what we ought to select and what this means?

Thanks again!

 

[GlocksRock]

Set lfe to SWFR and let only the subwoofer take care of the lfe, and leave your front l & r to large so they play full range. Set all other speakers to small and crossover at 80 hz.

 

[pzaur]

Thank you all SO much for your advice and help! I think we've got some good suggestions to try out.

The one thing we're still lost about is the Low-frequency signals thing, and that's really my fault because the handy table I made in word just didn't come through in this post. There are three options for setting the Low-frequency signals outut: BOTH, SWFR, and FRONT. Maybe this will help better:

Low-frequency signals output choices:
BOTH: (Subwoofer =*1) (Front Spkrs=*2) ( Other Spkrs = *3)
SWFR : (Subwoofer =*4) (Front Spkrs =*3) (Other Spkrs = *3)
FRONT: (Subwoofer =No output) (Front Spkrs= *1) (Other Spkrs = *3)

*1 Output(s) the low-frequency signals of the front channels and other speakers set to "SMALL"
*2 Always output the low-frequence signals of the front channels
*3 Output the low-frequency signals of the front channels.
*4 Outputs the low-frequence signals of the speakers set to "SMALL" or "NONE"

So can anyone suggest what we ought to select and what this means?

Thanks again!

Personally, I'd let the sub handle the low frequency output only. The specs for the DefTech speakers (scroll to the bottom) don't actually list what the decibel loss is at 17 hz. I have a really difficult time believing that the 8" woofer on the tower can handle that low of a frequency without straining. Very few subs can!

I'd set the LFE/Bass out to "Both". With all the above said, it looks as though your speakers can handle bass, on paper.

-pat