New receiver: Denon AVR-X3600H or X4500H ?

R

RRRR

Audioholic Intern
9.2 Channels This is very poor for Atmos or DTS-X
Power Consumption 900W VS 710
 
E

EmergencyFix

Audiophyte
I'm a newbie to kitting out a home theater. I've had 5.1 sound for years, and a prior projector, but am now building a whole new room just dedicated to this, and trying to learn as I go. I recognized the need for 7.2.4 audio and have run said speaker wires, and I'm at the shopping for receivers stage. I saw Gene's video review, which led me to here, and I was thinking of getting the AVR x3600h. I really liked the price point and the features, it sounds fairly future-proof. However, I'm having a bit of a tough time trying to find a comparable 2 channel amp to power the fronts if I go with this setup. Gene mentioned picking up an inexpensive amp, but I don't see any inexpensive amps while I'm browsing around these sites. SO, whether we pick the 3600 or 4500, are we still spending another $500 on amplification? and, if so, might it not just be an easier and space-saving solution (the cabinet is only so big), to get an all-in-one 7.2.4 solution?
Thanks for your consideration. (oh, and in case it matters for your answer, I ordered the Monoprice 365 in-walls for the LCR and their THX select 2 channels for the rears)

Rich
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
I'm a newbie to kitting out a home theater. I've had 5.1 sound for years, and a prior projector, but am now building a whole new room just dedicated to this, and trying to learn as I go. I recognized the need for 7.2.4 audio and have run said speaker wires, and I'm at the shopping for receivers stage. I saw Gene's video review, which led me to here, and I was thinking of getting the AVR x3600h. I really liked the price point and the features, it sounds fairly future-proof. However, I'm having a bit of a tough time trying to find a comparable 2 channel amp to power the fronts if I go with this setup. Gene mentioned picking up an inexpensive amp, but I don't see any inexpensive amps while I'm browsing around these sites. SO, whether we pick the 3600 or 4500, are we still spending another $500 on amplification? and, if so, might it not just be an easier and space-saving solution (the cabinet is only so big), to get an all-in-one 7.2.4 solution?
Thanks for your consideration. (oh, and in case it matters for your answer, I ordered the Monoprice 365 in-walls for the LCR and their THX select 2 channels for the rears)

Rich
If you can't find your favorite 2 ch amp, would you consider two Outlaw monoblocks?
 
E

EmergencyFix

Audiophyte
If you can't find your favorite 2 ch amp, would you consider two Outlaw monoblocks?
I appreciate your reply, but that is $400 x 2, unless I’m mistaken. If you move the purchase price up to $1900, aren’t there AVRs in that price range that do 7.2.4?
 
D

defset17

Audiophyte
The Outlaw 7000x is rated 130 W so the pre-out of the AVR-X4500H or Marantz SR7013 will be able drive it to well above its rated output. As you know even the AVR-X3500H was measured for 2 V with THD+N slightly above 0.02%.
You read my mind. I was looking at both the Denon AVR-X4500H or Marantz SR7013. Is there any documentation you've seen that states the possible differences between the preout voltage on those receivers compared to "roughly" one step down (Denon AVR-X3600H or Marantz SR6013/SR6014)?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
I appreciate your reply, but that is $400 x 2, unless I’m mistaken. If you move the purchase price up to $1900, aren’t there AVRs in that price range that do 7.2.4?
Not really, the M2200 has been on sale for $299 each quite regularly, at least a few times a year.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
You read my mind. I was looking at both the Denon AVR-X4500H or Marantz SR7013. Is there any documentation you've seen that states the possible differences between the preout voltage on those receivers compared to "roughly" one step down (Denon AVR-X3600H or Marantz SR6013/SR6014)?
Hard to say for sure, as I have read the schematics of the 2017 models only. They included the AVR-X4400H, SR6012 and SR7012, also the AV8805 that had been available for download occasionally (no idea why Marantz would do that).

I am quite sure there has not been changes in the preout from 2017 to the 2018 (based on what I saw on the AV8805) models though. So based on the 2017, and again, quite possible the same applies to the 2018 models, the one step down X3600H, SR6013/6014 should perform basically the same as the X4500H and SR7013. The upper models may have a slight edge on the noise part of the THD+N because of their nicer layout, shielding schemes etc.

The interesting about the HDAM vs no HDAM is that in theory HDAM should help at higher output level, say above 2 V, and/or when used with external amps that have lower than average input impedance, but having that extra buffer stage with as much as 10 transistors would also likely add distortions. I was wondering about the latter, than I read Dr. Rich's review on the AV8805 and apparently made some comments that seemed to line up with my own line of logical thinking.. Regardless, I can tell you that based on my experience with the X3400H and X4400H, those are fantastic values and sounded as good as my higher end separates, including real separates, and the higher end AV8801, so no, I do not believe HDAM made any damn difference to me audibly speaking.

If you go by measurements, I don't see any meaningful difference between the Denon 3000/4000 and Marantz 6000/7000 series either. To me, if you can wait, you should be able to grab a SR7013 for US$1199 (been there in Canada 3X this year (and it was Canadian $1199, ie.much lower in US$), or $999 for an AVR-X4500H.

If you live near the Canadian border though, then nothing beats the C$798 AVR-X3600H, then you can use the savings to grab a 2/3 channel power amp.
 
D

defset17

Audiophyte
Hard to say for sure, as I have read the schematics of the 2017 models only. They included the AVR-X4400H, SR6012 and SR7012, also the AV8805 that had been available for download occasionally (no idea why Marantz would do that).

I am quite sure there has not been changes in the preout from 2017 to the 2018 (based on what I saw on the AV8805) models though. So based on the 2017, and again, quite possible the same applies to the 2018 models, the one step down X3600H, SR6013/6014 should perform basically the same as the X4500H and SR7013. The upper models may have a slight edge on the noise part of the THD+N because of their nicer layout, shielding schemes etc.

The interesting about the HDAM vs no HDAM is that in theory HDAM should help at higher output level, say above 2 V, and/or when used with external amps that have lower than average input impedance, but having that extra buffer stage with as much as 10 transistors would also likely add distortions. I was wondering about the latter, than I read Dr. Rich's review on the AV8805 and apparently made some comments that seemed to line up with my own line of logical thinking.. Regardless, I can tell you that based on my experience with the X3400H and X4400H, those are fantastic values and sounded as good as my higher end separates, including real separates, and the higher end AV8801, so no, I do not believe HDAM made any damn difference to me audibly speaking.

If you go by measurements, I don't see any meaningful difference between the Denon 3000/4000 and Marantz 6000/7000 series either. To me, if you can wait, you should be able to grab a SR7013 for US$1199 (been there in Canada 3X this year (and it was Canadian $1199, ie.much lower in US$), or $999 for an AVR-X4500H.

If you live near the Canadian border though, then nothing beats the C$798 AVR-X3600H, then you can use the savings to grab a 2/3 channel power amp.
Thanks again PENG. I think I'll hold out for the SR7013. I haven't seen it in the US lower than $1799 though. Hopefully, the price drops early in 2020 because my Outlaw 7000x is getting pretty lonely just sitting here. Also, it seems like from everything I've read, the Denon AVR-X4500H is pretty much the exact same. I'm just not a huge fan of its look over the Marantz style.
 
Truthslayer

Truthslayer

Full Audioholic
If you don't mind a renewed one. Check out this out Amazon for $1299 full warranty-scroll down on page
Sorry, Here is the actual page listing.
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Thanks again PENG. I think I'll hold out for the SR7013. I haven't seen it in the US lower than $1799 though. Hopefully, the price drops early in 2020 because my Outlaw 7000x is getting pretty lonely just sitting here. Also, it seems like from everything I've read, the Denon AVR-X4500H is pretty much the exact same. I'm just not a huge fan of its look over the Marantz style.
I haven't seen it in Canada either, yet.. However, historically, if it happened once it would happen again and so far it has happened more than once in Canada that the SR7013 brand new was available at around US$ equivalent of $900 and change. So you would think that in the US it should hit that bottom price eventually, likely right after the SR7014 is out next year if not around Christmas/New Year. If you can't wait any longer, then you would have to pay the price.

By the way, if you can find good deals on the SR6013, keep in mind the parts and circuitry are 99% the same. The SR7013 has a slightly larger power supply, that's about the only real difference.
 

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