New need some advice

[FrkyMnky]

We just moved into a new house and I am finally tired of the computer speaker surround sound we have so its time to upgrade. The living room is 13x12 and we will be sitting 9' away from the front wall. The big thing is that the room is open to everything. Kitchen, formal dining room, living room, front door area, and breakfast area are all connected in a semi large rectangle and the ceilings are all raised and some go all the way up to the roof.
With all of that, the best system I have ever heard was a Yamaha/satellite mirage, so I have never really heard anything great. I usually watch movies with very little music listening, however I am wondering if it would be better to get larger and more expensive fronts/center/sub and worry about the surrounds later on. Finally, I have no problems spending 4-5k for a 2.1 system, however, I am wondering if it would be worth it in my case or even needed.

Forgot to add, the closest thing to me is a crappy BB with bose speakers setup for auditioning, so anything suggested will likely not be able to be auditioned unless its something like the Ascends with the return and shipping policies.

 

[ski2xblack]

I usually watch movies with very little music listening...

You're appreciation of music will grow with a good system.

...however I am wondering if it would be better to get larger and more expensive fronts/center/sub and worry about the surrounds later on...I have no problems spending 4-5k for a 2.1 system, however, I am wondering if it would be worth it in my case or even needed.

You'll get closer to top-notch performance by focusing on the front three first, so I would say this is a good idea. But for $5K, you could get into 5.1 without many glaring compromizes. I'm thinking that your open room will necessitate relatively serious expenditures on subwoofage, which may eat up enough of the budget that rears must be postponed.

However you proceed, it typically ends up being less expensive in the long run to choose wisely the first time and avoid upgrades later. I personally would go incrementally and get the best front stage and subs first.

Oh, and welcome to the forum!

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

4-5k will get you plenty in term of sound, but I suspect you are yet to experience truly great sound systems (Yamaha/satellite mirage doesn't count as one)

Ascends you've mention is among my favorite speakers, they are standing out heads above rest in terms of performance, but somewhat cosmetically challenged
Keep in mind since your space is fully open to other rooms, to achieve good bass you'd need to step-up few notches and get (ideally a pair) good sub

Do you have WAF or other design limitations?

In general the rule of thumb is not all HT systems are good for music, but all good musical speaker would be good for HT.

 

[FrkyMnky]

Thanks for the welcome.

As for design limitations I don't think that I really have any. Working with a 50" Panny sitting about 7" off the front wall. Limited to a horizontal center or none at all for the time being. Front and rear left will be corners while the rights are both open. Also, took some measurements of the area and its 36' at the longest and 21' at the widest with the ceiling peaking out at around 18'. The ceiling in the living room area is 10' vaulted.

With all that being said, the biggest question I have is simply will it be worth it for me to spend serious money on speakers before I truly have a good feel for good sound? I would much rather do it once than many times, but if that is stupid until I know exactly what I like then I have no problems stepping up to more expensive stuff later down the road.

One other thing, we move rather frequently so I need something that will and can work wherever I may go. Oh yea, what is WAF?

 

[ski2xblack]

You have to gain the "feel for good sound" by listening, preferably to a bunch of live, unamplified musicians, and after that, to well executed systems. Any local jazz clubs? Are you near a Revel or RBH dealer that has a good room?

Anything sufficient to fill that huge area will be anything but portable. But good speakers are more forgiving of different environments than bad ones, so, yes, it still makes sense to get good ones.

You could certainly do worse than buying Ascend or Aperion without hearing. It's next to impossible to audition what you want nowadays, but listen to good systems wherever you get the chance, and don't buy impulsively.

This may sound extreme, but one of the regulars here once suggested getting relatively inexpensive but excellent powered monitors like the JBL LSR2328, and listen to them for a while, to get a handle on quality sound. Then you won't be going into auditions of more expensive gear without some frame of reference. And you'll have a pair of excellent speakers for the office or workshop, to give to the kids or whatever.

WAF = Wife Acceptance Factor

$5K-ish: a trio of Philharmonics, a pair of quality subs, a decent AVR. Bam, you're done. Until you need surrounds.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

With all that being said, the biggest question I have is simply will it be worth it for me to spend serious money on speakers before I truly have a good feel for good sound? I would much rather do it once than many times, but if that is stupid until I know exactly what I like then I have no problems stepping up to more expensive stuff later down the road.

One other thing, we move rather frequently so I need something that will and can work wherever I may go. Oh yea, what is WAF?

Like said above, you need to find out how real instrument sound, how hi-end speakers like Revel reproduce it or even if you have Magnolia store near by grab your favorite CD and go listen to as many speakers as possible.

That said here is my suggestion:
Ascend Acoustics Direct

Quantity Price/Ea. Total
1x CMT-340 SE mains/pr $568.00 $568.00
1x Pedestal Stands /pr $140.00 $140.00
1x CMT-340 SE center $298.00 $298.00
1x CBM-170 SE pair $348.00 $348.00
2x Rythmik FV15HP Sub $1,199.00 $2,398.0
---------------------------------------------------
Subtotal(with discount) $$3,316.25

Add receiver: Onkyo TX-NR3009 or Yamaha RX-A3010
and I'll promise you'd wont have "good feeling" about, but you'll be blown away by both audio quality and power.

For cables and interconnects - for good looking ones - BJC or as good but cheaper: monoprice.com


p.s: I'd love to recommend Philharmonic speakers, but unfortunately they don't do horizontal center yet, but you still might want to check them out if you decide to go pure 2.0 system
http://philharmonicaudio.com/philharmonic1.html

p.s.s: Note: check the weight of each sub -120 lbs moving them could be complicated ....

 

[WaterDrinker]

Forgot to add, the closest thing to me is a crappy BB with bose speakers setup for auditioning, so anything suggested will likely not be able to be auditioned unless its something like the Ascends with the return and shipping policies.

If your BB has a Magnolia Dept in it, they are running a bundle on a 5.1 Martin Logan.

For ~1500 you get
2 Motion 10 floorstandings
2 Motion 4 bookshelfs
1 Motion 8 Center
1 Dynamo 500 sub

and for 200 more you can upgrade the Motion 10s to Motion 12s.

I demoed both of these set ups for a customer today and he thoroughly enjoyed the sound on them.

 

[timoteo]

Ive read great things on the Philharmonics!

I wouldnt go the MartinLogan Motion direction. You can do much better! The Dynamo sub isnt near powerful enough for that space either.

Definately get dual subs if you have the space. Im running an HSU VTF-15h & their MBM-12. With this setup, the MBM handles the bass from about 80hz-50hz then the 15h picks up at about 50hz & goes down from there. This way each sub does what its best at. The results are astonishing!!! But SVS & a few others like Rythmik a great as well.

I like the recommendation to put your $ into your 3 front speakers, 1or2 great subs & a good AVR. Later you can figure out if you need more power from an external amp. Save a bit more & add surrounds later as well.

A good, accurate set of speakers will sound great to even the untrained ear.

If the room allows try & fit in about $500 of room treatments to get your system to sound its best.

 

[zieglj01]

Since you move a lot - look at Focal
The 807 and 806 bookshelves
The 800 center
http://www.spearitsound.com/focal/focal_800_series.htm

Check into Rythmik subwoofers

And look at the Yamaha A1000 receiver
http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-A1000-7-1-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/B003XDU48O

 

[sholling]

That said here is my suggestion:
Ascend Acoustics Direct

Quantity Price/Ea. Total
1x CMT-340 SE mains/pr $568.00 $568.00
1x Pedestal Stands /pr $140.00 $140.00
1x CMT-340 SE center $298.00 $298.00
1x CBM-170 SE pair $348.00 $348.00
2x Rythmik FV15HP Sub $1,199.00 $2,398.0
---------------------------------------------------
Subtotal(with discount) $$3,316.25

Add receiver: Onkyo TX-NR3009 or Yamaha RX-A3010
and I'll promise you'd wont have "good feeling" about, but you'll be blown away by both audio quality and power.

+1, this would make a really nice system.

A busget busting step up that might be a better fit for small room might be 3x Sierra-1 with HTM-200SE as surrounds (or 5x Sierra-1s ) but honestly the CMT-340SE rock. I own both and like both.

 

[GranteedEV]

We just moved into a new house and I am finally tired of the computer speaker surround sound we have so its time to upgrade.

The big thing is that the room is open to everything. Kitchen, formal dining room, living room, front door area, and breakfast area are all connected in a semi large rectangle and the ceilings are all raised and some go all the way up to the roof.

This can be good for sound, but bad for deep bass

I usually watch movies with very little music listening, however I am wondering if it would be better to get larger and more expensive fronts/center/sub and worry about the surrounds later on.

That's what I think. And surrounds can be good, but inexpensive, too.

Finally, I have no problems spending 4-5k for a 2.1 system, however, I am wondering if it would be worth it in my case or even needed.

One thing I will say, is that you may find yourself listening to a lot more music with a pair of speakers that don't lather the recording in distortion

My suggestion goes to start with 2.1 - but with two subs instead of one - and then add a center and surrounds later "if you feel like it". You might find the center unnecessary (and difficult to find a good place for without it actually being distraction) and you may find the surrounds don't have to be matching in order to get great results, as long as they're a good design.

I definitely think you want more than one sub though, and good subs at that.

What do I recommend? I think..

1X Marantz SR6004
2X JTR Triple 8HT-LP ($2200) or JBL LSR 6332 ($3200)
2X Rythmik FV15

Add a third Triple 8HT-LP as a center eventually if you wish, or maybe you won't.

For surrounds, eventually I recommend these active studio monitors. Because they're powered, even though there's four, they won't tax the amp channels on the receiver at all. I find them to be reasonably inexpensive, though your mileage may vary.

4X JBL LSR2325P

As for 5.1 vs 7.1 my opinion is a bit complex.

One one hand, I don't think many movies use much surround information. I think on average you don't want to spend too much on surround speakers. However, in my experience there's definitely more immersion from 7.1 than there is from 5.1 the surrounds in 5.1 are more easily localized and can actually be a bit of a distraction depending on the source content. In 7.1 the surrounds just seem to dissapear. I think i'd be happy with any of 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1. The advantages as you add more speakers are all subtle but mostly positive. I'm running 6.1 right now and I think it's very good, but for most content I find stereo to be very immersive. I do have a center for 7.1 but to me it brings voices below the TV instead of at TV height where the main speakers bring it, and too sharply defined in space to sound natural.

Another thing you might want to consider, would be room acoustics. Obviously different rooms behave differently with respect to the decay of sound (and especially the formation and cancelation of bass) so it might be worth evaluating.

 

[FrkyMnky]

Thanks for the advice and suggestions.

After doing quite a bit of research and using the advice here I think I have narrowed some stuff down.

A1000/1010 or SR6004
F15(how much difference is there between the FV15 and the regular F15) only one for now.
I have pretty much decided that I want towers as well. I really dont want to do black speakers and the stands for the ascend 340s are only in black. So I am thinking:
Q700/900
Verus Grand
Philharmonic 1 maybe 2 although the black is a limiting factor.

Not real sure if I should be considering anything else right now and its really hard to figure out which one of these I should go with as they all seem very close based on what I have been reading. Im really leaning towards the KEFs though with the open box discounts online.

 

[GranteedEV]

My concern with the KEFs is in the metal cone breakup:

I haven't heard them so I can't comment on just how audible it is, but people often find metal cone breakup to be rather offensive. If it weren't a budget speaker, I think KEF would have attenuated the breakup moreso through the crossover network. I think they cut some definite corners in crossover/cabinet design and put the money in the drivers. Nothing wrong with that and they probably sound very good. I just wouldn't be comfortable ordering those particular speakers unheard.

The Phil 2s are a great choice. Many people consider RAAL tweeters to be the only tweeter that sounds lifelike.

 

[sholling]

I have pretty much decided that I want towers as well. I really dont want to do black speakers and the stands for the ascend 340s are only in black.

You realize that can use any stand that you like with them? You don't have to use the big heavy Ascend stands.

 

[FrkyMnky]

You realize that can use any stand that you like with them? You don't have to use the big heavy Ascend stands.

Actually, I didn't. Feel kind of stupid right now, but thanks for the information.