New ID Competition?

C

Clownaphobia

Audioholic Intern
So I know that Emotiva makes pretty nice products. But (in my opinion) their subs have always been fairly mediocre. I’m curious how this one will fare against the competition...https://emotiva.com/collections/all/products/airmotiv-rs13-reference-subwoofer
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Emotiva has had subs out for years and has been around for years. Only now they are moving into the next level of sub compared to their previous offerings.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Looking at the design cues, I am pretty sure that is a Claridy design, in which case it is bound to be a very good subwoofer. The driver looks like the same one used in the Outlaw Audio Ultra-X13, a great subwoofer driver.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Overlord
looking at James's own measurements of PB3000 vs RS13 (company provided), except in subsonic 16hz, I see that PB3000 has an upper hand in other bands. We don't know distortion numbers, so rs13 could be (and looking at dead flat FR ) is likely more accurate.
In any case, I welcome more options at this segment.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
looking at James's own measurements of PB3000 vs RS13 (company provided), except in subsonic 16hz, I see that PB3000 has an upper hand in other bands. We don't know distortion numbers, so rs13 could be (and looking at dead flat FR ) is likely more accurate.
In any case, I welcome more options at this segment.
I would say that the components in the Emotiva were originally built to hit THX Ultra performance targets, and they probably had to give up mid bass sensitivity to get things like zero compression and distortion. The Outlaw Ultra-X13 is a great sub as is the PB-3000, and I think this Emotiva sub is as well, but they have somewhat different performance targets
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
I've always liked the angular look of Emotiva's speakers and these new subs seem to share the same aesthetic. IOW, me likey!

RS13_iso_grill_1500x.png
RS13_iso_1500x.png
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
So I know that Emotiva makes pretty nice products. But (in my opinion) their subs have always been fairly mediocre.
Actually, their Ultra 12 from 2011 was a very competitive subwoofer!
From AudioHolics review:
We can recommend the Emotiva Ultra 12 Sub to anyone interested in a value product that will deliver tight, musical bass in almost any size room. If you think you want more output or your room opens up and is on the larger size, then by all means buy two. For the rest of us, this is the sub to beat for manufacturers everywhere. It somewhat redefines value and raises the bar significantly - so much so that it just might embarrass most if not all of the competition.
There are several problems with Emotiva's business model. Not the least of which is Gene's inability to get repairs on his flagship amps (the warranty had expired, but Gene was willing to pay for the repair).
The other is the short market life of their products - the Ultra 12 is an excellent example! IIRC, it was discontinued within a year of this rave review, so about the time it was really getting momentum in the marketplace, they pulled the plug on it. I'm not talking about a "mk 2" version of the same thing, but enough different to confuse a buyer who was ready to buy the discontinued item.
They have done the same with power amps. This makes no sense! A good solid power amp from 8 years ago is a good power amp today!
I suspect that they could not repair Gene's amp because they did not have a parts inventory to support repair - a problem relating to having lots of products with short runs of each - parts inventory gets expensive!
 
C

Clownaphobia

Audioholic Intern
Actually, their Ultra 12 from 2011 was a very competitive subwoofer!
From AudioHolics review:

There are several problems with Emotiva's business model. Not the least of which is Gene's inability to get repairs on his flagship amps (the warranty had expired, but Gene was willing to pay for the repair).
The other is the short market life of their products - the Ultra 12 is an excellent example! IIRC, it was discontinued within a year of this rave review, so about the time it was really getting momentum in the marketplace, they pulled the plug on it. I'm not talking about a "mk 2" version of the same thing, but enough different to confuse a buyer who was ready to buy the discontinued item.
They have done the same with power amps. This makes no sense! A good solid power amp from 8 years ago is a good power amp today!
I suspect that they could not repair Gene's amp because they did not have a parts inventory to support repair - a problem relating to having lots of products with short runs of each - parts inventory gets expensive!
I remember the Ultra 12..and used to suggest it pretty often. If I recall it didn’t have the ability to play very low, but was able to hit some pretty high spl in midbass regions. But I think as times changed and the bar has been continually raised, Emotiva just hasn’t kept up in the Subwoofer category. But maybe this will change things?
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I remember the Ultra 12..and used to suggest it pretty often. If I recall it didn’t have the ability to play very low, but was able to hit some pretty high spl in midbass regions. But I think as times changed and the bar has been continually raised, Emotiva just hasn’t kept up in the Subwoofer category. But maybe this will change things?
Maybe, but if it is like the past, they will make it for two years then drop out of the sub business for a year then introduce a different sub.
However the fact that they are likely working with Claridy may give them a little better stability/consistency and more conspicuous lineage between today's product and tomorrow's. Look at Rythmik and Hsu!
 
C

Clownaphobia

Audioholic Intern
Also, speaking about competition in the ID market...Did Outlaw raise the price on the X-13? I seem to remember the price at $1500?...now on their website it’s $2k?? unless I’m looking at something incorrectly. That could take them out of the conversation for lots of people
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
But maybe this will change things?
Optimistic. AF. ;)
Also, speaking about competition in the ID market...Did Outlaw raise the price on the X-13? I seem to remember the price at $1500?...now on their website it’s $2k?? unless I’m looking at something incorrectly. That could take them out of the conversation for lots of people
I definitely agree this is a game changer. They were already an outlier, I feel. Either demand is low, thus they are raising the price to compensate (not the right formula)... or Stock is low and they are raising the price while working on the next thing (higher cost slows demand to help preserve supply)... Also shipping costs are still high, and they have to pay their people...
Long story short, this could be any number of issues, or a combination of many.

I'm just hoping they aren't going away!

Comparatively, I couldn't get simple questions about the XPA Amps answered when I reached out to Emo. They lost my business for Amps.
Then they can't get their Pre-Pros working right. They lost my possible future business to Mono/Mono HTP-1.
*shrugs

Life's a b!tch. And these are all 21st century, 1st world problems I will gladly take over parasites and poisoned water supplies any day.
 
C

Clownaphobia

Audioholic Intern
Optimistic. AF. ;)

I definitely agree this is a game changer. They were already an outlier, I feel. Either demand is low, thus they are raising the price to compensate (not the right formula)... or Stock is low and they are raising the price while working on the next thing (higher cost slows demand to help preserve supply)... Also shipping costs are still high, and they have to pay their people...
Long story short, this could be any number of issues, or a combination of many.

I'm just hoping they aren't going away!

Comparatively, I couldn't get simple questions about the XPA Amps answered when I reached out to Emo. They lost my business for Amps.
Then they can't get their Pre-Pros working right. They lost my possible future business to Mono/Mono HTP-1.
*shrugs

Life's a b!tch. And these are all 21st century, 1st world problems I will gladly take over parasites and poisoned water supplies any day.
I think it’s a terrible idea to raise the price by that much! Incremental price increases, I can understand (as a small business owner)..since cost of everything goes up. But it doesn’t look great when your competition (imo especially HSU) have kept their price points low. So now you can buy 3 X-12’s for the price of a single X-13
 
C

Clownaphobia

Audioholic Intern
That being said...I hope that @shadyJ gets a chance to put this new RS-13 thru it’s paces
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
I wonder if Gene will lift his ban on Emotiva reviews?
If there was a tiff between Gene and Emotiva, I can assure you that its over. I don't know if there is any Emotiva reviews on the slate at the moment, but it certainly isn't banned.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
If there was a tiff between Gene and Emotiva, I can assure you that its over. I don't know if there is any Emotiva reviews on the slate at the moment, but it certainly isn't banned.
Just going by what he posted a while back....
 
vader540is

vader540is

Junior Audioholic
So I know that Emotiva makes pretty nice products. But (in my opinion) their subs have always been fairly mediocre. I’m curious how this one will fare against the competition...https://emotiva.com/collections/all/products/airmotiv-rs13-reference-subwoofer
IMO with the specs looks like they are going After SVS. I highly doubt that Sub will cause any threat to Power Sound Audio, Rythmik and JTR...IMO those three ID brands have the best bang for buck.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Spartan
Actually, their Ultra 12 from 2011 was a very competitive subwoofer!
From AudioHolics review:

There are several problems with Emotiva's business model. Not the least of which is Gene's inability to get repairs on his flagship amps (the warranty had expired, but Gene was willing to pay for the repair).
The other is the short market life of their products - the Ultra 12 is an excellent example! IIRC, it was discontinued within a year of this rave review, so about the time it was really getting momentum in the marketplace, they pulled the plug on it. I'm not talking about a "mk 2" version of the same thing, but enough different to confuse a buyer who was ready to buy the discontinued item.
They have done the same with power amps. This makes no sense! A good solid power amp from 8 years ago is a good power amp today!
I suspect that they could not repair Gene's amp because they did not have a parts inventory to support repair - a problem relating to having lots of products with short runs of each - parts inventory gets expensive!
And, it really is a shame too! They are/were so close to a great company, but seem to have lost their way and lost sight of what made them great.

I have been very pleased with my USP-1. I bought that as a stop-gap, waiting for their new RSP, then just stayed with the USP-1.

I got the XDA-1 DAC at a nice price, they cleared them out after they admitted to the way they implemented the digital volume. I doubt that it makes any real-world audible difference, and it was completely a moot point for my application anyway. They followed that up with the XDA-2.

I also have a set of their slim BS/onwall speakers, bought on a whim when they cleared them out for ~$160. Those do seem fairly nice, but I haven't spent a lot of time with them either. They are a little odd as a stand mount or on a desk, just the depth of them makes it seem like they would be easy to knock over, and the magnetic grills are a pain, they fall off pretty easily when moving/handling them.
 

newsletter
  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top