J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Talk about back handed compliments :p;)

Of course you are right and the ideal contrast situation would be a Johnny Cash room (all black). While painting the doors, crown and base moldings is easy, replacing the carpet is a much bigger deal cost wise.

I'm sure I'll come around eventually. :)
It really wasn't meant to be back handed. Hey, I think I've been pushing AT for a while, heh, and I like that you got a riser, and a JVC, etc.

I also didn't offer my own solution this time (though I probably have before), because you always come up with your own original, unique solutions. Like a riser made of subs (sure they're made for that, but I never knew about them before), art that doubles as diffusers, a cool secret door for access to electronics, etc.

But, anyhow, what I use are two very large black rugs, side by side, that run lengthwise in front of viewers. During the early stages (riser still uncarpeted, all walls white, all carpet being white) it was one of my friends that mentioned that he thought the floor was begging for the most treatment. The rugs combined were probably only $250ish (IKEA), and they did a LOT for the overall effect, IMO.

The problem is it may not be sexy enough for you . . . and so I just figured you can find your unique solution for it, perhaps. Maybe it will be all new carpet, but maybe it could something else . . . Well, I suppose you have less to benefit than I did, since you DO have a darker than white rug there, but I am coming from ALL white everywhere . . .

Anyways, we'll chat later. :D
 
rmk

rmk

Audioholic Chief
Hey JM, you are always full of ... ideas and have an inquiring mind. Me, I'm just a contrarian :p.

A blackish rug over the existing carpet might be a good idea. I have that red oriental in there now and don't notice that I pick up any reflected light from it but it’s possible. The white double doors and 18' crown moldings may be the bigger problem.

I expect the Jeff Meier will have a field day critiquing my half baked ideas but I am hoping I can learn something from him. I love hanging out with experts in anything; a little is bound to rub off. :)
 
MidnightSensi

MidnightSensi

Audioholic Samurai
Nod. I remember my physics right, light falloff is the inverse square of the original magnitude (if you double the distance between a light source/reflection and another reflection point, the light is reduced by a factor of 4). So the benefit of black carpet would reduce by a square as you move away from the screen, so the most important would be by the screen.

Carpet is big cheese though. Maybe just a valance would do. Gotta take a break and enjoy the fruits of all this new stuff first. Can't get everything at once done or else there won't be as much room to dream :)

I wouldn't even look that direction until the room could be totally void of all other light though, if the curtains aren't completely black out and so forth I doubt worrying about carpet reflections would make much of a difference. I remember reading that just a candle in a completely black room will half your effective contrast ratio (check me on that, not sure about the accuracy).

...

Since I see some tension ripples around the screen though. Maybe not noticeable from your seats?
 
rmk

rmk

Audioholic Chief
Nod. I remember my physics right, light falloff is the inverse square of the original magnitude (if you double the distance between a light source/reflection and another reflection point, the light is reduced by a factor of 4). So the benefit of black carpet would reduce by a square as you move away from the screen, so the most important would be by the screen.

Carpet is big cheese though. Maybe just a valance would do. Gotta take a break and enjoy the fruits of all this new stuff first. Can't get everything at once done or else there won't be as much room to dream :)

I wouldn't even look that direction until the room could be totally void of all other light though, if the curtains aren't completely black out and so forth I doubt worrying about carpet reflections would make much of a difference. I remember reading that just a candle in a completely black room will half your effective contrast ratio (check me on that, not sure about the accuracy).

...

Since I see some tension ripples around the screen though. Maybe not noticeable from your seats?
Chasing that last 5% is a beatch.

Those tension ripples are only visable with indirect light like when I have the can lights in front of the screen on.
 
MidnightSensi

MidnightSensi

Audioholic Samurai
Chasing that last 5% is a beatch.

Those tension ripples are only visable with indirect light like when I have the can lights in front of the screen on.
They aren't noticeable when an image is projected on them?
 
rmk

rmk

Audioholic Chief
No in fact you can't see them without the aid of a 90° light source. Unfortunately, I have two such sources in the room with a window directly to the right and the can lights above and both were in play for the photo above.
 
A

average_male

Audiophyte
There is a trend I notice, those that love audio have great design taste (and by that I mean home furnishings and color scheme), very nice setup.
 
rmk

rmk

Audioholic Chief
Time for an HT update. Jeff Permanian (JTR Speakers) offered me a “would you like to be a guinea pig for a new subwoofer” challenge back in April. He was calling the sub the Orbit Shifter and of course I accepted without hesitation. We set a date of June 12th as the delivery deadline and I scheduled a HT Meet for that day. He also built new Triple 12 LCR speakers for me with an “experimental” compression/midbass driver and crossover. Pretty exciting stuff but as always, the proof is in the pudding.

So last Friday at 1:30 am Jeff rolled into town (yes, he drove everything out from Chicago) and we spent Friday setting up for the Saturday Meet. To further complicate matters, I have Jeff Meier (Accucal) coming in Friday evening to calibrate my projector so time was tight and any problems would be disastrous.
Well everything came off fine and no problems surfaced except a missing power cable that required Jeff to do another 3+ hour round trip to Meyer Sound in Berkeley for a replacement PowerCon connector. Somehow, we got it all together in the nick of time so that we were ready for the Audio Video Calibration. Jeff Meier of Accucal arrived on time a spent the next 3 hours calibrating my JVC RS35 and then another 2.5 hrs on the audio calibration. Jeff is outfitted with the latest in AV measuring equipment (his website has full details and prices) and does 200-300 calibrations per year. All that experience plus his meticulous approach made for an interesting few hours. He was able to dial the JVC in perfectly and his work on the audio produced a very pleasing a un-Audyssey like sound. After Jeff M left at nearly 11pm, Jeff P and I did a few quick demo runs then decided to call it a night.

The morning of the Meet gave Jeff and me a chance to put the system through its paces. Jeff wanted an all out stress test so we used War of the Worlds Bluray (CH 5 machine emerges). I had just received the disk but had not had a chance to listen to it. The relentless bass assault of that scene was like nothing I had ever experienced.

I believe 22 people attended the Meet and I took no pics :eek: (a couple of people brought cameras and I will post any good shots of the group when I get them). Many made the 100 plus mile trek from the SF Bay Area and so these are some dedicated HT enthusiasts. IMO, the Orbit Shifter subs were the star of the show followed closely by the newly calibrated JVC RS 35 and the SeymourAV 126” AT Screen. The subs almost literally blew everyone away. They are a horn design (45”X22.5”X30”) with a custom 18”driver and an on-board 4Kw amp. These subs are far and away the best I have ever heard. They are flat to 7Hz in room and can put out close to 130 DB (@ the LP) along most of the covered frequencies. Why anyone would you want to do that is a valid question, but once you hear this level of performance it is addictive.

The experimental compression/midbass driver in my new T12’s has also been a nice upgrade. The clarity of the high frequencies regardless of volume is astonishing. Jeff is thinking about offering this in a ”HiFi version” of the T12 with a price point adjustment to cover the increased CD cost.

I realize that my comments sound hyperbolic, but if you read the responses of the HT Meet attendees (you can read them for yourself here and here), not to mention the private email’s I have received, you would know I am not alone in my praise of the JTR products.

Those responses were especially gratifying for Jeff P. He works incredibly long hours at his business and is essentially a one man band. Jeff is a shy and humble guy who does a fantastic job designing and building high performance, damn the aesthetics speakers. His approach fits my HT audio needs perfectly.

For me, this was a slightly stressful but ultimately satisfying experience. My HT hobby and hosting these HT Meets has allowed me to meet some really nice people who share my passion for all things AV. Since none of my “regular” friends share this HT passion, it has been very cool to be able to share what I have created with other hobbyists (everyone loves it, but these people get it;)).

There are a couple of small things on the horizon that I plan to add. I ordered an XTZ Room Analyzer that will display the 16Hz and up FR and perhaps I will be adding the Audyssey Pro Kit as a FR tweaking tool. It is time for me to sit back and enjoy this massive attack HT system I have created. There are things in my life that require attention (like my very rusty golf game) and so I plan on spending less time thinking about the theater and more time enjoying it.

The Orbit Shifters:



 
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MidnightSensi

MidnightSensi

Audioholic Samurai
Dope!

Take more pictures of the Orbit Shifters. :p

What are you using as a camera, an iPhone?:p

So Jeff the video guy did the audio calibration, or did Jeff P. do the audio?
 
rmk

rmk

Audioholic Chief
Dope!

Take more pictures of the Orbit Shifters. :p

What are you using as a camera, an iPhone?:p

So Jeff the video guy did the audio calibration, or did Jeff P. do the audio?
Is dope good or are you calling me a dope :confused::p

I'm too old for an iPhone, Apple won't sell them to people over 55 without a special wavier and I don't qualify. I'm using a very nice 5 year old Canon G5 or something like that with a dirty lens. Might be time to look for a new one ...ya think? :)

There were a lot of Jeffs here over the weekend but Jeff Meier (Accucal) did the video calibration (outstanding) and the audio calibration (jury still out on that one). I ran an 8 position Audyssey and I'm currently running with that.

Jeff Permanian has some nice measuring gear himself and he did some raw data measurements for the OS's that are posted on the AVS Orbit Shifter Thread.
 
MidnightSensi

MidnightSensi

Audioholic Samurai
Is dope good or are you calling me a dope :confused::p

I'm too old for an iPhone, Apple won't sell them to people over 55 without a special wavier and I don't qualify. I'm using a very nice 5 year old Canon G5 or something like that with a dirty lens. Might be time to look for a new one ...ya think? :)

There were a lot of Jeffs here over the weekend but Jeff Meier (Accucal) did the video calibration (outstanding) and the audio calibration (jury still out on that one). I ran an 8 position Audyssey and I'm currently running with that.

Jeff Permanian has some nice measuring gear himself and he did some raw data measurements for the OS's that are posted on the AVS Orbit Shifter Thread.
Dope defined in 2010:
adj. Cool, badass, great
noun. People who don't smoke weed call marijuana 'dope,' people who do smoke weed call heroin 'dope.'

:p

In all seriousness, the setup looks amazing and I bet it sounds amazing.


As far as the camera, you probably just need to open the drapes during the day and take some shots or play with your camera settings. Or you can cheat and get a Canon D5 mk. II ;). I appreciate any you take though, I truly have been looking forward to how this went!

Anyways, a little post-processing in the airport :):


 
rmk

rmk

Audioholic Chief
The Orbit Shifters are the only subs I have heard that have measurable output down to <10Hz. They manage to do this while having amazing clean output in the higher frequencies and are a perfect complement to the Triple 12's.

The Incredible Hulk sound canon scene was a revelation :eek:.

Here is the raw data graph Jeff took on Sunday:

 
jp_over

jp_over

Full Audioholic
Rmk,

Just read your thread from the start - wow! Thanks for all the insight and information. For my next audio only / 2.0 (perhaps 2.1 or 2.2) system I'll be adding JTR to the list.
 
rmk

rmk

Audioholic Chief
Rmk,

Just read your thread from the start - wow! Thanks for all the insight and information. For my next audio only / 2.0 (perhaps 2.1 or 2.2) system I'll be adding JTR to the list.
Hi Joe,

Thanks for tuning in and for reading this tome of a thread ;). It has been a while since I have been here and good to see that some of my old acquaintances are still hanging around. The system really hasn't seen much change since the June HT meet other than adding a new front row of 4 Berkline's that I bought from one of the AVS Forum Mods who lives in the Bay Area. They have the powered headrests and are a nice upgrade comfort wise plus I now have a 7 seater (4 in the front, three in the back).

The JTR's have been just amazing and I continue to be a big fan. I wanted a big HD picture with bigger HD sound and I got that in spades. I just had a AVS forum member from Reno in for a demo last weekend. He has a nice 5.1 system and his mains are nice pair of Silverline Grandeur's ($35K/pair:eek:). He was blown away by the dynamics of the JTR's. We played several movie clips that he was familiar with and he was laughing at the almost silly ease with which the JTR's literally shook the room. His definitive quote was "this is what I want". I had said those same words the first time I heard the JTR Triple 12's. Just crazy dynamics and SPL output without sacrificing clarity and detail.

Like my Revel Ultima Studios, his Grandeur's are wonderful music speakers when played at normal (ie moderate) volume. But whether it is classic rock (I ran through the Eagles Live in Melbourne HD-DVD for him) or big HD movie sound tracks, The JTR's provide a live event sound that I have not experienced with any other speakers (with the exception of a Mark Seaton Catalysts/Submersive system).

They are not pretty, need a sub(s) and will not pass any WAF tests, but if you want IMAX like sound they are a good option and very reasonably priced (IMHO).
 
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J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Hey rmk! Geez, you've been away for a bit. While you were gone, I built a Seymour AT screen in the same size you have (IIRC). :D
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
I've seen your system on avsforum, but I dunno if I commented there or not. It's very very very very nice. I would love to hear a JTR and/or Seaton setup one of these days.
 
rmk

rmk

Audioholic Chief
Hey rmk! Geez, you've been away for a bit. While you were gone, I built a Seymour AT screen in the same size you have (IIRC). :D
Hey JM, I have been laying low and enjoying the system (use it nearly every day). The AT Seymour XD screen is very nice ... ever wish you had gone bigger?

I've seen your system on avsforum, but I dunno if I commented there or not. It's very very very very nice. I would love to hear a JTR and/or Seaton setup one of these days.
Thanks, if you're ever in Chicago visit Jeff Permanian (JTR owner). He's a good guy and will be happy to show you what his speakers and subs can do.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Hey JM, I have been laying low and enjoying the system (use it nearly every day). The AT Seymour XD screen is very nice ... ever wish you had gone bigger?
Not really, but it is closer to the viewers than before, naturally. After the combination of perceived improvements, including additional light control by way of both black paint and fabrics, I think I have bigger fish to fry including color accuracy as well video processing for 1080i source material (let alone the lower resolutions). I can pick out 1080i instantly just about, let alone 480i stuff. My RS1 supposedly passed the deinterlacing tests, but my Pana BD60 must deinterlace before sending off video via HDMI, and who knows how the two compare.

I am happy with the compromise in size I now have, when considering both brightness and sharpness loss by going bigger. If I can fry those other fish, and was somehow able to obtain the disposable income to get some more brightness, maybe even with 4K resolution in the distant future just for discussion's sake, I wouldn't mind a touch bigger now that I think about it. Well if I had a lot of money, I'd probably go scope, which I know you're not crazy about in theory, but that's for a general compromise in going supersized + ideal viewing "height" + flexibility in placing my main speakers with the width I have (or specifically not worrying about the screen frame). Or something like that. Oh I dunno. :)
 
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