New HT Room

[Franin]

I think you have a very nice system there Frank and the Fathoms are great subs. Any "upgrade" would have aesthetic tradeoffs primarily in the size of the subs. If you are willing to deal with bigger boxes you may get better low frequency performance.

I think your audio is very well matched and would think twice (or more) about changing it. Just my $.02 .

Thanks for that rmk I respect your opinion very much Sometimes its good for someone to say just leave it as it is. This hobby is a great hobby and upgrading is a disease that most of us have

I might add 2 more Fathoms to it later on.

 

[NakaMitch]

wow! total cost?

 

[Duffinator]

With people upgrading there Subs gives me the itch to do the same. Im assuming the subs do a much better job in low freq than what the Fathoms did?

I heard the Fathoms at Rob's and was very impressed. My limited impression is the Captivators might hit a bit lower but remember that are much larger in size. As I recall the SVS PB13 Ultras also hit a bit harder down low. But I thought the Fathoms were incredible when we listened to music. I listen to a lot of music so that's very important to me. But it's hard to tell unless you A/B them and with Rob's JTR speakers that are very dynamic and impressive I could be way off base. That's my 10 cents worth.

 

[MidnightSensi]

I heard the Fathoms at Rob's and was very impressed. My limited impression is the Captivators might hit a bit lower but remember that are much larger in size. As I recall the SVS PB13 Ultras also hit a bit harder down low. But I thought the Fathoms were incredible when we listened to music. I listen to a lot of music so that's very important to me. But it's hard to tell unless you A/B them and with Rob's JTR speakers that are very dynamic and impressive I could be way off base. That's my 10 cents worth.

I think part of that might be because mixing horns and bins, or even two different bins, can be pretty complex and take some time to tweak. I'd be interested on your (and his of course) opinions of the sound if the bandwidth was split, with the Danleys handling the bass and the Captivators handling the sub-bass.

 

[rmk]

I think part of that might be because mixing horns and bins, or even two different bins, can be pretty complex and take some time to tweak. I'd be interested on your (and his of course) opinions of the sound if the bandwidth was split, with the Danleys handling the bass and the Captivators handling the sub-bass.

I purchased a QSC DSP30 and was planning to use one output channel for each sub pair but we ran out of time before the meet. The software is quirky and a little over my head so I'm thinking of having someone come in and work with me on this to optimize the subs.

 

[MidnightSensi]

Yeah, I can't offer any real advice there. Have you noticed any smearing or time issues? How does it sound to you? You might be spot on and not need any DSP.

As soon as software becomes involved, the audio world is ages behind. Like, how about that serial port?

But, the gist of all that software is you build the path of the signal from the inputs to the outputs. Left is in, right is out. You can then decide if you want to sum the signal (like if you have a left and right stereo bass input and want to sum it into mono), set a crossover and split it... which would then create two different paths to the outputs. Then along that line you can set the limiters, how hard they hit (knee), attack, delay, compression, cutoffs, etc. Think about WHERE you want to apply filters. Do you want to EQ the incoming signal and then crossover split it, or do you want to set the crossover and then EQ each individual subwoofer, and so forth.

Tinker!

 

[jostenmeat]

I just want to say that the evolution of your HT has been awesome. The crazy thing is that it already started from a very good place (not some HTIB like with me ).

There are very few builds that can excite speaker/sub upgraditis for me as much as this one.

I should put you on my ignore list.

One day. Well, what I have is good, awesome for most anyone else. Just have to hang out with the right people is all.


From this

To this

From this

[/QUOTE]

To this

 

[rmk]

Yeah, I can't offer any real advice there. Have you noticed any smearing or time issues? How does it sound to you? You might be spot on and not need any DSP.

As soon as software becomes involved, the audio world is ages behind. Like, how about that serial port?

But, the gist of all that software is you build the path of the signal from the inputs to the outputs. Left is in, right is out. You can then decide if you want to sum the signal (like if you have a left and right stereo bass input and want to sum it into mono), set a crossover and split it... which would then create two different paths to the outputs. Then along that line you can set the limiters, how hard they hit (knee), attack, delay, compression, cutoffs, etc. Think about WHERE you want to apply filters. Do you want to EQ the incoming signal and then crossover split it, or do you want to set the crossover and then EQ each individual subwoofer, and so forth.

Tinker!

Yeah, the serial port is a bad joke and the USB to serial adapter cost me $40.

It actually sounds good (no bass smearing) and the Velo SMS-1 graphs look very good across the front three seats and not bad in the back row. I'm keeping the DSP and havedone several of your suggestions above but they didn't take. I'll get to "tinkering" one of these days.

 

[rmk]

I just want to say that the evolution of your HT has been awesome. The crazy thing is that it already started from a very good place (not some HTIB like with me ).

There are very few builds that can excite speaker/sub upgraditis for me as much as this one.

I should put you on my ignore list.

One day. Well, what I have is good, awesome for most anyone else. Just have to hang out with the right people is all.

Thanks JM, that was an interesting pictorial of my room's evolution. The interesting thing with this hobby is, there is no done. There is always much to learn and something new to to try. Keeps me out of trouble ...

 

[irish]

Very nice!!!

 

[Franin]

I heard the Fathoms at Rob's and was very impressed. My limited impression is the Captivators might hit a bit lower but remember that are much larger in size. As I recall the SVS PB13 Ultras also hit a bit harder down low. But I thought the Fathoms were incredible when we listened to music. I listen to a lot of music so that's very important to me. But it's hard to tell unless you A/B them and with Rob's JTR speakers that are very dynamic and impressive I could be way off base. That's my 10 cents worth.

Thanks for that Duffinator.

 

[MidnightSensi]

Yeah, the serial port is a bad joke and the USB to serial adapter cost me $40.

It actually sounds good (no bass smearing) and the Velo SMS-1 graphs look very good across the front three seats and not bad in the back row. I'm keeping the DSP and havedone several of your suggestions above but they didn't take. I'll get to "tinkering" one of these days.

Ahahaha, yeah. That's why I like the dbX units with the on-unit interface, but they still have the crappy serial interface if you want to connect a computer. I'm pretty sure they all buy from the same manufacturer for the chips, because they are all really similar no matter who you buy from in our price range. It's workable though. I'll type up a better walk through once my hand feels better, still messed up. Typing one handed. If it sounds good, no rush.

 

[rmk]

Audyssey Pro

This Friday evening and based upon some of recommendations made by Keith Yates (that's advice you need to take) at the G2G, I moved some of the existing panels around. I moved 3 side right 3.5” wall panels to the ceiling closer to the LCR and Captivator. I also moved a 5” bass trap from the left rear corner bevel wall to the Center back wall.

I also purchased the Audyssey Pro Kit and ran a 12 point EQ of the room yesterday. Due to time constraints I did not tweak the Audyssey Curves and selected one of the default curves with a slightly rolled off high end. I did not tweak the Audyssey as it sounds great as is but I did notice that Audyssey had set the system 5.5 db hot. That required manual level cuts to get Integra test tones down to 75db. The SMS 1 is still in the signal chain but doing no EQ.

I did some listening to my most familiar Bluray demo material and noticed a fairly large difference (for the better) in low frequency rumble and slam. I also noticed better clarity/resolution of the high frequencies without loss of dynamics. Dialog intelligibility has also improved and I assume this is due to the improvements in HF resolution.

All in all, these seemingly small changes have made a very nice improvement in the system’s sound. At this point, I think is fair to say that I am a Audyssey covert at least as far as the MulitEQ XT and the Pro Kit are concerned.

Couple of pics:

 

[Porschetech]

wow.......what a room!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MidnightSensi]

Audyssey Pro

This Friday evening and based upon some of recommendations made by Keith Yates (that's advice you need to take) at the G2G, I moved some of the existing panels around. I moved 3 side right 3.5” wall panels to the ceiling closer to the LCR and Captivator. I also moved a 5” bass trap from the left rear corner bevel wall to the Center back wall.

I also purchased the Audyssey Pro Kit and ran a 12 point EQ of the room yesterday. Due to time constraints I did not tweak the Audyssey Curves and selected one of the default curves with a slightly rolled off high end. I did not tweak the Audyssey as it sounds great as is but I did notice that Audyssey had set the system 5.5 db hot. That required manual level cuts to get Integra test tones down to 75db. The SMS 1 is still in the signal chain but doing no EQ.

I did some listening to my most familiar Bluray demo material and noticed a fairly large difference (for the better) in low frequency rumble and slam. I also noticed better clarity/resolution of the high frequencies without loss of dynamics. Dialog intelligibility has also improved and I assume this is due to the improvements in HF resolution.

All in all, these seemingly small changes have made a very nice improvement in the system’s sound. At this point, I think is fair to say that I am a Audyssey covert at least as far as the MulitEQ XT and the Pro Kit are concerned.

Couple of pics:

Awesome man! So should the Pro Kit be my christmas present to myself?

Dialog intelligibility is a bit one for me. I hate having to turn it up for the dialog.

 

[rmk]

Awesome man! So should the Pro Kit be my christmas present to myself?

Dialog intelligibility is a bit one for me. I hate having to turn it up for the dialog.

Thanks, I think the Pro Kit would make a great gift.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Congratulations on a very nice setup.

 

[rmk]

Audyssey Pro

Update on the Audyssey Pro Kit.

Well after spending 2 hours calibrating 18 positions (out of a possible 32) the results were interesting. Thus far I have run two 12 position calibrations and the 18. The main difference was with my PJ screen up and down. The last time I managed to figure out how to tweak the FR at various points along the FR. Very cool but limited to +/-3db adjustments.

Audyssey continues to set my levels (Integra DTC 9.8) near 0 db and those levels produce 85db pink noise from the Integra test tones. I have to cut each channel by approx. 10db to get to the recommended 75db reference calibration. Using the MultiEQ XT in the Integra always produced minus levels (-9db) with the Integra tones at or near 75db. Audyssey’s only suggestion thus far has been to run fewer positions (8) and to aim my LCR speakers up a bit. I haven’t tried this and doubt that it will make a difference as they are very close to aimed at my seated head height as they are.

The system is sounding good but this levels anomaly is weird.

 

[rmk]

Field Trip

Based upon the recommendation of a friend and as a reality check, we visited the local IMAX last night to see the 3D version of A Christmas Carol. We had not been out to a movie in several years so this was going to be test of our evolving HT vs. one of the better commercial offerings. This was more of an audio comparison as the big screen 70MM superiority of IMAX is indisputable.

As expected, the IMAX screen and Image quality were excellent. The 3D effects were very cool and although the glasses are a little uncomfortable it was nice to see where 3D is at technically and visually. As you would expect in such a large room the soundstage (39 speakers) was huge with excellent dynamics and vocal clarity but the surround effects were much less impressive. There were many times when I was expecting more enveloping sound but it just never got there. I can think of only a couple of times during the film with effective surround sound. The bass was the biggest disappointment and I would be surprised if there was much if any <30hz content. That said it was loud but loud in the same way my system is, i.e. due to large dynamic peaks of the audio tracks. Your are cruising along at a 75-85db clip and wham the peaks jump up to 110db or more. What was missing in the IMAX presentation was the big tactile and aural bass hits that I now take for granted. It was funny to have my SO lean over to me during the film and whisper “they don’t have enough subwoofers”. Funny, that was exactly what I was thinking.

So overall, I would concede IMAX superiority to the 3D video and the front stage sound which were very good and arguably better than my system. But the surround sound and bass were far less impressive. Kind of what I expected and this pointed out the exact areas I intend to address in the future. I want to get a larger AT screen (AR TBD) and move the LCR off the floor and behind the screen. I believe that will address any short comings with the front soundstage. The projector is another matter and much more problematic. I am happy with the image quality of my JVC (HD-100) but concerned that its brightness isn’t up to a 130” or so screen (current is 106”). The other issue (and that one keeps me up at night) is screen AR. I know the arguments for 16:9 and 1.35 very well. With 3D capable projectors just around the corner, holding off on a video move seems prudent. In any case, I may or may not make a move in this direction soon.

The one thing I did not mention and the main reason I hate going to out to a movie is the people. I’m sure the room contained some very nice folks who under different circumstances I wouldn’t mind talking to or even breaking bread with, but damn there are some stupid unaware schlubs out there. I completely missed the first 5 minutes while my fellow IMAXer’s settled in. Arrive late, can’t find their seat (the IMAX was reserved seating), munching, slurping, burping, grunting, farting, cell phones, whining kids … you name it, they do it. I found myself morphing into Larry David (an already easy role for me to assume) and wanting to inform each and every offender of their short comings. Luckily, my SO was right there with me on this one. If anything, she is even less tolerant of the great unwashed masses.

Oh well, the experiment is over, the lessons learned and my obvious obsession for this hobby fully justified. I can now happily retreat to my cave and enjoy movies and concerts with only myself (and an occasional friend/neighbor) to annoy me.
YMMV

 

[EJ1]

I love this thread (just re-read it from post 1).