New home planning for 9 seats in new theater room

[Poorboy67]

Working on planning for 9 seats and would like some input for placement of atmos speakers for a 7.2.4 system. see attached picture for my concept plan. working with all online tools place the front atmos speakers basically right above or behind the front row and the rear speakers in front of the back row. Am I wrong in thinking I can spread them out to provide coverage to all rows and still get the effects I need to get?

 

[mtrycrafts]

Welcome to AH.
I think your expectation from that room size is overboard.

How large is your screen or is it a very large TV? If your drawing is accurate. that front row is like the 1st row in many theaters as you will be looking way up and cannot see the full screen well, too close, way too close. The rear row is up against the wall, not good at all.
This setup for Atmos will be poor at best.

I am sure others will opine as well, so just hang in there.

 

[Poorboy67]

So to answer the question the screen size is 85", I am not so much concerned with the people in the front row but according to one of the sites I used to design it 5' 9" was an acceptable distance for front row viewing. The drawing I present is just a rough draft of what I'm thinking based off the designer I used. My biggest concern was the ceiling speakers which they basically focused them on the seat I selected as the primary seat. I was wondering if I spread them apart from the middle row evenly and angled them to still focus on the middle row but by spreading them allowing the sound to be heard by the front and rear rows if that would create a bigger sound cocoon and enhance the experience for those rows. I appreciate your input.

 

[TLS Guy]

Working on planning for 9 seats and would like some input for placement of atmos speakers for a 7.2.4 system. see attached picture for my concept plan. working with all online tools place the front atmos speakers basically right above or behind the front row and the rear speakers in front of the back row. Am I wrong in thinking I can spread them out to provide coverage to all rows and still get the effects I need to get?
View attachment 51381

That is absolutely a six seat. and not a nine seat room. It needs a room length of around 30", even that is a tight fit, because of the required speaker spacing.

I now note your room is far too narrow. For none seat you need a 14' to 16' width. You do not want seats at the side of the room. You must have space between the seats and the wall.

Here is the Dolby specs for Atmos. The 7.1.4 is in figure three. It would work for 7.2.4 or 7.4.4 equally well. The key is the placement of the speakers other then the subs.

I built my 7.2.4 theater to those specs to the letter. It worked out perfectly.

Here are the pictures. The room is 29' long.

You can see, that with even that length nine seats is tight.

This was the theater in my former house. That was 12' X 21' roughly. That was five seat and tight.

I can't warn you more strongly, that if you carry through with your current plans it will not work out well for you, and you will waste a lot of money.

 

[Poorboy67]

So this tool I used is placing the the first row eyes at 5' 9" from the screen and the second row another 5' 9" making it 11' 6" and the third row another 5' 9" making it 17' 3" actually spacing me about 3' off the back wall. My theater seating I have will give me about 17" from the end of the seating to the wall on both sides with the left wall mostly open (except where you see particians in blue) for access to all 3 rows. I'm not saying that what I've drawn up is set in stone and is the most ideal. What I am saying is this is the space I've got to work with and I will make use of the prime seat in the very middle of the room. I have everything except for my surrounds and atmos speakers which I left in the walls and ceiling of my last home. I was just hoping that I might be able to spread my atmos ceiling speakers out a little more to allow other listeners a better experience. All 9 seats will be used when we watch a movie. Would I have better luck if I dropped from 4 to 2 ceiling speakers over the middle row?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Well there’s a lot to consider here. I do agree, the room is too small. I would not want to be in the front row 5’-9” away from an 85” screen and the LCR even closer. They’ll get blasted out of their seats while the ones in back will be struggling to hear. Dialog especially. You lose 6db per doubling of distance. Also, with the MLP in the center of the room, the bass response will be a black hole. The front and back rows will be extra bass heavy.
To me, this is also a two row room. But if you’re set on 9 then do what you can do.
For top speakers, this might be a case to run 7.x.6. Processors for that layout are expensive however, and some soundtracks have playback issues.
For surrounds, I’d considering doing arrays like in a commercial theater. Problem there is that the room is very narrow, and listeners in the far left and right seats will suffer hotspotting from too close proximity. That can be alleviated by using bipoles as surrounds. Dolby recommends using monopoles, and while I agree with that, bipoles can be pretty good there, but multiple rows could could be problematic. Are the surrounds going to be in wall? Because 17” from the couch to the wall is not enough room for a speaker, and will be extremely annoying, and not immersive.

The ceiling is also a little low for Atmos in a single row setup, and even more so here.

Iirc after all that, lol, the question was about the Top/height speakers.
I would install them at the recommended 45° fore and aft of the MLP and let the front and back rows get what they get. That way at least one seat, the most important one will potentially get good playback. Also, with that ceiling height I would not space the as wide as the mains. I would keep their width at the .5 to .7 of the widest speakers width(usually surrounds).

This is a case of 10 gallons of water in a 5 gallon bucket.

 

[TLS Guy]

So this tool I used is placing the the first row eyes at 5' 9" from the screen and the second row another 5' 9" making it 11' 6" and the third row another 5' 9" making it 17' 3" actually spacing me about 3' off the back wall. My theater seating I have will give me about 17" from the end of the seating to the wall on both sides with the left wall mostly open (except where you see particians in blue) for access to all 3 rows. I'm not saying that what I've drawn up is set in stone and is the most ideal. What I am saying is this is the space I've got to work with and I will make use of the prime seat in the very middle of the room. I have everything except for my surrounds and atmos speakers which I left in the walls and ceiling of my last home. I was just hoping that I might be able to spread my atmos ceiling speakers out a little more to allow other listeners a better experience. All 9 seats will be used when we watch a movie. Would I have better luck if I dropped from 4 to 2 ceiling speakers over the middle row?

No, follow the spec. You never "hear" atmos speakers. You should never localize to one. If you do it properly then everyone will have a good experience, except the front row. That is way too close to the speakers, and those seats will be quite useless.

 

[Poorboy67]

That's a very good explanation to me 10 gal in a 5 gal bucket! You don't even want to know how that relates to my entire home..... yes I was thinking bipoles for the surrounds sunk into the walls to try and spread the sound more easily. The atmos speakers were going to be mounted with brackets to the ceiling not in the ceiling so that I could back them out away from the center row and still direct the sound that direction. I dunno guess it's probably a pipe dream that it'd all work right. I am running a Denon AVR-X 6400H that is supposed to be able to adjust volumes for the speakers as long as they are close.to resembling some.kind of.practical setup.... guys, I really do value your insight on this even though it's not sound like I'm hearing you I do. I've used a couple of different desingner tools and everything I see focuses the atmos speakers on a single row on the center seat. I know I'm asking alot out of this little room with extremely low ceiling height. I could make the room a foot or 2 longer without sacrificing too much and my width is being affected by a massive support beam.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I absolutely can't believe people would have such a large room and NOT put a projector into it. *sigh* Just watching a big TV.

 

[Poorboy67]

Lol, I'm sorry about your disappointment. It is a samsung Q90T top of the line 4k. I really like the crisp picture the TV provides vs what I have seen from projectors. I. This scenario it's is big enough for everyone to see and small enough to not have heads in he way of viewers in the back rows. Again my real concern was with the sound from the atmos speakers...... do they make anything that run 9 sets of atmos head phones? I do know the surround sound on my playstaion is amazing on headset I have for it..

 

[jinjuku]

That is absolutely a six seat

This is exactly my first though when seeing the diagram. I'm in a 17X23X10 (w/d/h) and I have seating for 6.

 

[jinjuku]

Lol, I'm sorry about your disappointment. It is a samsung Q90T top of the line 4k. I really like the crisp picture the TV provides vs what I have seen from projectors. I. This scenario it's is big enough for everyone to see and small enough to not have heads in he way of viewers in the back rows. Again my real concern was with the sound from the atmos speakers...... do they make anything that run 9 sets of atmos head phones? I do know the surround sound on my playstaion is amazing on headset I have for it..

I think you are ok with that TV in that room. If it was me and I could do it:

I would delete the first row, make the 2nd row two seats and the 3rd row three seats. Everyone here wants you to have a killer experience and to spend money in all the right places.

What would the room look like even with the support beam if you widened it? I think current width is a issue.

 

[Poorboy67]

Basically I get that if I want to put 9 seats in this room I'm pissing in to the wind, set it up for the middle seat of the middle row and suck it up and deal with whatever I get from the other 2 rows. I do appreciate your insight.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Basically I get that if I want to put 9 seats in this room I'm pissing in to the wind, set it up for the middle seat of the middle row and suck it up and deal with whatever I get from the other 2 rows. I do appreciate your insight.

Don't worry. Be happy!

First-world problem here, so NO BIG DEAL!

I am 100% okay with the 3 rows of seats in your room.

The question is, which seat is YOUR SEAT?

The important thing is that you have that SWEET SPOT (2nd Row).

The salient thing is that those 4 Atmos Ceiling speakers are close enough to your seat so that you can easily hear them because when all the speakers and subwoofers are playing full blast, you need to be able to hear those Atmos speakers.

I would put the two front Atmos ceiling speakers above the 1st row and the two rear Atmos ceiling speakers above the 3rd row seat. This means the 2nd row gets the BEST placement, but the 1st row and 3rd row also get good placement.

 

[WookieGR]

In that room with that many seats I would be more focused on getting a projector in there with an acoustic screen so everyone can enjoy the movie.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Basically I get that if I want to put 9 seats in this room I'm pissing in to the wind, set it up for the middle seat of the middle row and suck it up and deal with whatever I get from the other 2 rows. I do appreciate your insight.

Then, if this is what you will do I'd suggest moving your Atmos speakers appropriately for that middle row.

 

[}Fear_Inoculum{]

My room is close to the same size as yours TS (18.5 × 10.5 × 7.5) I can say 100% without a doubt that it is way too small for 3 rows.

Plus, the ceiling height means that the back row in your set up will always have someone in front obstructing their view. I built risers for my back row seats, and in order to get a clear view over the front row, I had to build them 16" high (granted, I do have high backed reclining theatre seats). IMHO you need at least a 9' ceiling height for 3 rows to work, and 10' would be ideal.

Just out of curiosity, why the need for 9 seats?

 

[Poorboy67]

Well guys, thanks for your input and I do acknowledge the dimensions of the room are too compact for the ideal situation and most people probably wouldn't want to sacrifice to find the happy medium between what is ideal and what I want to do. After some more research on speaker setups and the capabilities of my receiver I think I am going to pursue the Auro 3D setup for my sound, I will be able to spread my upper level speakers out to encompass more of the seating area for a better 3d sound throughout the entire seating area. The prime seat will still be the sweet spot. So I'm not sure if it was indicated before but I am putting in risers 8" for the second row and 16" for the 3rd row. All seats are electric reclining theater seats and currently occupying the area we are gonna be working with so I know I have plenty of room for the seating. I know I will be compromising on the sound just looking for the best options.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I would reconsider trying for Auro. There is very little content available, and what is, is found over seas. Many people do like the Auro upmixer for music. But not many that I’ve seen like it for movies.
You could probably do a front/rear height similar to Auro. Or maybe do side heights instead. I have to go back and look at your pics.

 

[Poorboy67]

I have been researching it and have found several positive reviews on auro and from those reviews they did discuss availability issues with content but also discuss the issues with crappy atmos mixing on a lot of atmos content that the auro up mixing is supposed to do it justice. I am not going to put in ceiling speakers so except for the one VOG speaker so I should be able to adjust speaker location if I don't like the results.