New Emotiva Monoblock Amp $299!

[slipperybidness]

My AVR is an SC-55.

It seems to me that the SC-55 actually has the D3 amps, not the older ICE amps. Also, seems that I may have been mistaken, it may have been the ICE amps that had the previous complaints, but the D3 looks to have improved on that.

FWIW, I have one of the older Pio Elites, VSX-82tx, one of the A/B designs that gives a true 140Wpc. Been a great AVR, though it is quite long in the tooth now.

 

[shadyJ]

It seems to me that the SC-55 actually has the D3 amps, not the older ICE amps. Also, seems that I may have been mistaken, it may have been the ICE amps that had the previous complaints, but the D3 looks to have improved on that.

FWIW, I have one of the older Pio Elites, VSX-82tx, one of the A/B designs that gives a true 140Wpc. Been a great AVR, though it is quite long in the tooth now.

Oh you might be right. I might have been confusing it with an older Pioneer VSX amp that I had that might have had ICE amps.

 

[PENG]

U may not be aware...
UL/CSA/CE/ETL requires a thermal circuit breaker inside the primary power transformer... This is a mandatory requirement..

Just my $0.02...

First of all, that QSC amp has external cct breaker on the transformer primary side and fuses on the secondary side. Secondly, I am quite familiar with various CSA codes, I have to, by profession; and your are correct that I am not aware of such CSA requirement of "a thermal breaker inside the primary power transformer"...

Actually I don't what you mean as there is no such thing as primary power transformer, unless you mean to say the "primary side" or the "primary winding", in this case the 120 V side (North America standard). In that case, it is possible to have an embedded sensor, such as a RTD that will activate an external scheme based on a contactor and/or breaker. I doubt this is common practice and most would just use external breakers and fuses. In any case, i highly doubt it is mandated by CSA. To comply, you just need to follow the relevant sections of CSA C22.1, C22.2. I have the standards but I don't memorize the contents. So if you know that for sure, please post a link or the section number of the standard. Thank you.

 

[everettT]

Did you order the DCA Series amp?

Going to as soon as my new speakers get closer to shipping

 

[M Code]

Yeah, but that's not a user-replaceable item, right? That's a "1 and done and the t/f is now toast", but at least it didn't burn your house down?

Correcto..
It is not user accessible.. Once the circuit breaker open, the transformer is toast..

Just my $0.02...

 

[M Code]

First of all, that QSC amp has external cct breaker on the transformer primary side and fuses on the secondary side. Secondly, I am quite familiar with various CSA codes, I have to, by profession; and your are correct that I am not aware of such CSA requirement of "a thermal breaker inside the primary power transformer"...

Actually I don't what you mean as there is no such thing as primary power transformer, unless you mean to say the "primary side" or the "primary winding", in this case the 120 V side (North America standard). In that case, it is possible to have an embedded sensor, such as a RTD that will activate an external scheme based on a contactor and/or breaker. I doubt this is common practice and most would just use external breakers and fuses. In any case, i highly doubt it is mandated by CSA. I don't memorize the code book, but if you know that for sure, please post a link. Thank you.

Depends upon what safety compliance listing is done for the subject product..
If listed as a consumer product then yes it is required...
If listed as a commercial/industrial product than it is an option...

Just my $0.02...

 

[PENG]

Depends upon what safety compliance listing is done for the subject product..
If listed as a consumer product then yes it is required...
If listed as a commercial/industrial product than it is an option...

Just my $0.02...

Even if it is a consumer product such as a high power amplifier, It is not even practical to have an "internal circuit breaker", the current could be so high, that it would become a hazard itself such as arc flash, arc blast, mini explosion etc., during the current interruption if the transformer is large enough such as those for the Monolith 5X200 watts, or if the breaker is designed for such duty then the cost would be prohibitively high. I am not doubting you, but I think something (terminologies perhaps?) might have been misinterpreted.

As I mentioned, for internal device, that is embedded in winding, you will typically see embedded sensors that sense the temperature. The types of sensors are generally chosen based on the insulation class that tells you their safe operating temperature. That is of course much better "thermal" protection than just external current sensing/activated breakers and fuses. The embedded sensor(s) however, do not interrupt, i.e. break the circuit, it works with an external protective circuit that will in turn trip an external breaker.

 

[lovinthehd]

I will be honest, I am using a ICE Power amp in my Pioneer AVR and I think I like the sound better when I use outboard amplifiers. I think there is something almost 'thin' sounding about the ICE power amp compared to other amplifiers, as though other amps have a fuller sound. One thing I want to do is a close comparison of the Pioneer amp to some other amp topology to see if the difference is just in my imagination. I wonder if it is because the peak power output of ICE amps is so much more than the continuous output? They are extremely efficient though, I have to admire that about them, but I have to wonder if their burst vs average output doesn't resemble some kind of audible compression on some content, like a compressor with a lax attack but swift release filter?

Maybe that's simply the old external amps are better thing I've several A/B avrs and when I've used class D external amps with them I've not noticed any particular sq difference myself but then I haven't tried a proper comparison either nor am I a trained listener. Too bad we all seem to be spread out all over the place, an audioholics blind test could perhaps illuminate on both scores since they come up frequently enough (ie class of amp and avr amp vs external).

 

[M Code]

First of all, that QSC amp has external cct breaker on the transformer primary side and fuses on the secondary side. Secondly, I am quite familiar with various CSA codes, I have to, by profession; and your are correct that I am not aware of such CSA requirement of "a thermal breaker inside the primary power transformer"...

Actually I don't what you mean as there is no such thing as primary power transformer, unless you mean to say the "primary side" or the "primary winding", in this case the 120 V side (North America standard). In that case, it is possible to have an embedded sensor, such as a RTD that will activate an external scheme based on a contactor and/or breaker. I doubt this is common practice and most would just use external breakers and fuses. In any case, i highly doubt it is mandated by CSA. To comply, you just need to follow the relevant sections of CSA C22.1, C22.2. I have the standards but I don't memorize the contents. So if you know that for sure, please post a link or the section number of the standard. Thank you.

The subject breaker in the power transformer is triggered by high temperature..
Don't recall specific temperature but I think it was 80 degrees C...
Some products have more than 1 transformer, sometime (2) power transformers.. Also there is another smaller transformer in a product with an IR remote sensor that it powers.. Today most products sold in North America have a multi-listing that satisfies both UL & CSA standards.. Here CSA plays a secondary role as the Canadian market is only 10% the size of the USA..

Just my $0.02...

 

[PENG]

Maybe that's simply the old external amps are better thing I've several A/B avrs and when I've used class D external amps with them I've not noticed any particular sq difference myself but then I haven't tried a proper comparison either nor am I a trained listener. Too bad we all seem to be spread out all over the place, an audioholics blind test could perhaps illuminate on both scores since they come up frequently enough (ie class of amp and avr amp vs external).

Agreed, how about you organize some sort of blind test session that is open to AH members? I guess the first step is to find out if anyone would volunteer to bring their gear. Do it in Toronto though.

 

[PENG]

The subject breaker in the power transformer is triggered by high temperature..
Don't recall specific temperature but I think it was 80 degrees C...
Some products have more than 1 transformer, sometime (2) power transformers.. Also there is another smaller transformer in a product with an IR remote sensor that it powers.. Today most products sold in North America have a multi-listing that satisfies both UL & CSA standards..

Just my $0.02...

Sounds good, but still the subject breaker will not be in the transformer, the sensor is. If CSA mandates such breaker "inside" the winding, I will be disappointed and will probably call their code engineers to have a serious conversation.

 

[PENG]

Going to as soon as my new speakers get closer to shipping

Wow, good choice, I hope you are getting the class AB DCA1222 or 1622, very impressive specs for proamp.

 

[everettT]

Wow, good choice, I hope you are getting the class AB DCA1222 or 1622, very impressive specs for proamp.

Going with the 1622 for the new salks. They are very impressive spec wise for sure.

 

[everettT]

Back to the ice d3s from pioneer, just added the sclx701 and havent noticed any issues with thin sound FWIW.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Will you have to replace the fan in the 1622 with a quieter one?

 

[everettT]

Will you have to replace the fan in the 1622 with a quieter one?

Dont know yet. If so I'm sure I've got plenty laying around.

Edit: I dont notice the crown fans at all.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

I didn’t mean that in a derogatory sense of course. QSC have fine products.

 

[everettT]

I didn’t mean that in a derogatory sense of course. QSC have fine products.

Didnt even consider you were.

 

[Verdinut]

Will you have to replace the fan in the 1622 with a quieter one?

It's too early to say. I think Everett should use it as is first. The DCA Series of amps have a rather quiet fan as compared to that on the RMX Series. FYI, I am using three
DCA 1222s for the front channels and one DCA 1824 for the surround and SB channels. My listening position is about 6 feet away from them and the 3 AC Infinity fans on top of my Marantz AVR are noisier.
I am 99% assured that he won't have to switch fans on the DCA 1622.

HT: https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/my-7-channel-system.111234/

 

[PENG]

It's too early to say. I think Everett should use it as is first. The DCA Series of amps have a rather quiet fan as compared to that on the RMX Series. FYI, I am using three
DCA 1222s for the front channels and one DCA 1824 for the surround and SB channels. My listening position is about 6 feet away from them and the 3 AC Infinity fans on top of my Marantz AVR are noisier.
I am 99% assured that he won't have to switch fans on the DCA 1622.

HT: https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/my-7-channel-system.111234/

They are supposed to be variable speed depending on the temperature, so if not pushed hard they should be silent or quiet. The only thing is, their low cost RMX850a is supposed to be variable speed with temperature sensing too, but they are not, they run at full speed full time. That's technically false advertisement though I am sure it was just a printing error. The DCA series are much more expensive so I do believe they have the temperature controlled variable speed fan.