AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Is that a Samsung Harman range with built in speakers? :)
Oh, that's right. I forgot Samsung bought out Harman International! :D

That would be cool to have some Revel Speakers on my Samsung Range, but then it would sound very sticky and hot. :eek:
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Nah, it's about the same. :p
Yeah. It was the same. For 13 years. :D

I think Gene used to rave about Denon and Emotiva too. But things change.

If Yamaha doesn't get the next CX-A5300 to measure at least as well as the CX-A5100, there is going to be another change.
 
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Gmoney

Gmoney

Audioholic General
Yeah. It was the same. For 13 years. :D

I think Gene used to rave about Denon and Emotiva too. But things change.

If Yamaha doesn't get the next CX-A5300 to measure at least as well as the CX-A5100, there is going to be another change.
Yeah Gene was really high on Emotiva till his amp crapped out on him and they wouldn’t service it. I remember when Elmoe :D came out with them 600 watt amps, I was like who really needs a amp that Weighs a ton plus what if it goes down? Cost like 500 bucks to ship it out for repair. Elmoe :Dhad some good amps out UPA amps, but they went and Dumped those amps. Than put out some amps that aren’t much better than what’s in a AVR.
 
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GuitarPicker

GuitarPicker

Audioholic Intern
The best scenario for buying a new AVR would be to demo the units. Unfortunately most people don't have that luxury. You can spend a lot of money and still wonder if you made the right choice. Then you can read other peoples opinions and be even more confused. Everybody has an opinion based on their own personal preference. I've always been a firm believer you get what you pay for to a certain degree. I've recently talked to A4L and S&S and one recommends Marantz and one recommends Denon and save the $400 in price difference, oh and WWS recommended Yamaha. Sometimes you have to read the specs and go with your gut feelings. Once you open the box and see that brand new shiny receiver the anxiety normally starts to disappear quickly!
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
The best scenario for buying a new AVR would be to demo the units. Unfortunately most people don't have that luxury. You can spend a lot of money and still wonder if you made the right choice. Then you can read other peoples opinions and be even more confused. Everybody has an opinion based on their own personal preference. I've always been a firm believer you get what you pay for to a certain degree. I've recently talked to A4L and S&S and one recommends Marantz and one recommends Denon and save the $400 in price difference, oh and WWS recommended Yamaha. Sometimes you have to read the specs and go with your gut feelings. Once you open the box and see that brand new shiny receiver the anxiety normally starts to disappear quickly!
It really just comes down to feature set and connections. If you find one with the features, power and connections you want (type of room correction, HDMI, etc..) sound quality will be very similar, if not equal scross the board in a pure direct or through setting. That said I do prefer Denon and Marantz (FWIW they're the same company. Whoever told you to save your money and go with Denon is correct, imo.). Not because of any "warmth" or "better highs" than any other brand. I like what Audyssey XT32 can do in my room with my system and the editor app makes it all the better.

If Yamaha had XT32 and D&M used inferior RC tech I'd absolutely have a Yamaha in my setup.
 
GuitarPicker

GuitarPicker

Audioholic Intern
I was told the Yamaha had better sound "separation" in movie's and you could clearly hear the really quite sounds that other AVR's wouldn't pick up. This was from WWS who has a demo room for their customers. This is where hearing would be believing. The one issue I could see with most Yamaha's is the depth of the unit if you are mounting in a cabinet. Always a good idea to check dimensions before ordering.
 
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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
I was told the Yamaha had better sound "separation" in movie's and you could clearly hear the really quite sounds that other AVR's wouldn't pick up. This is where hearing would be believing. The one issue I could see with most Yamaha's is the depth of the unit if you are mounting in a cabinet. Always a good idea to check dimensions before ordering.
I Don't get hung up on DACs and subjective comments about "warmer sounding", "chocolatey mids" and "better soundstage" when it comes to amplification. Folks who say that are more influenced by their eyes than their ears, IMO. The only true way to determine differences would be in a DBT setting, where you don't know which one you're listening to, level matched with a dB meter and eq is defeated. Otherwise it's not really a direct comparison. Even a 1 dB difference can make one sound "more detailed" or have a "wider soundstage" than the other. Due to differences in gain structure it's not easy to level match, which is why a dB meter is preferred.

Most receivers have a pure direct or through mode that defeats any eq'ing and levels the playing field. In that setting I've found that unless there's a defect or something is wrong I don't hear the differences described by some. Again, it's differences in room correction and eq settings that make the biggest difference. When you did your comparisons were they level matched? How about eq? Were they eq'ed identically or was it bypassed on both units? In the same room with the same speakers? There's a lot more to comparing receivers than most realize and it's not an easy thing to set up properly.

You gotta watch out for those rabbit holes. They're all over the place in the audiophile world. Some are beneficial and you can learn some things. Others will just empty your pockets and leave you wishing you'd bought better speakers instead of dumping 1000s into electronics, cables and DACs.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
I was told the Yamaha had better sound "separation" in movie's and you could clearly hear the really quite sounds that other AVR's wouldn't pick up. This was from WWS who has a demo room for their customers. This is where hearing would be believing. The one issue I could see with most Yamaha's is the depth of the unit if you are mounting in a cabinet. Always a good idea to check dimensions before ordering.
Sorry, I don’t know what WWS means...
The way I read this is that you were not IN the demo room, but heard from a salesman about Yamahas “better separation”.
Ime, with different manufacturers, that sounds like a Dog Log to me.

Also @Pogre, I would add to your comment about picking the AVR with the features you want. Try to get one that had a GUI that is navigable and menu structures that are intuitive. That’s my biggest bitch about Yamaha, is the menus SUUUUUck!!!!! And I hate their proprietary sound modes, and fukked up way to setup multiple subs. And ypao.....
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
I was told the Yamaha had better sound "separation" in movie's and you could clearly hear the really quite sounds that other AVR's wouldn't pick up. This was from WWS who has a demo room for their customers. This is where hearing would be believing. The one issue I could see with most Yamaha's is the depth of the unit if you are mounting in a cabinet. Always a good idea to check dimensions before ordering.
You can easily compare the spec for crosstalk between the units (i.e. separation). Sounds like you're listening to sales bullshit mostly, tho.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Sorry, I don’t know what WWS means...
The way I read this is that you were not IN the demo room, but heard from a salesman about Yamahas “better separation”.
Ime, with different manufacturers, that sounds like a Dog Log to me.

Also @Pogre, I would add to your comment about picking the AVR with the features you want. Try to get one that had a GUI that is navigable and menu structures that are intuitive. That’s my biggest bitch about Yamaha, is the menus SUUUUUck!!!!! And I hate their proprietary sound modes, and fukked up way to setup multiple subs. And ypao.....
I think WWS is Worldwide Sound? That's what I came up with.

Agree about the gui interface too. Some are definitely easier and more intuitive to navigate than others. I wasn't a big fan of Yamaha's gui or YPAO either.
 
GuitarPicker

GuitarPicker

Audioholic Intern
WWS= World Wide Stereo. I'm aware of salesman bs, I've been in Industrial sales/engineering/purchasing for over 30yrs. Wasn't falling for anything but just stating what I was told by 3 different authorized distributors.You can get different opinions every where you look.Specs are great but only paint part of the picture and just because a certain manufacturer has sister companies doesn't mean the product they produce are of the same quality.Sometimes you pay more for the brand name and marketing but that's not always a bad thing. That's why it would be great to demo the units to make your own decision if that is an option. I agree with Pogre that better speakers are important. I would be curious what everyone's back ground is. I'm good friends with 2 electrical engineers and we've had a lot of discussions over the years. I've learned a lot from them but we don't always agree. And as far as companies that review products don't you think money might exchange hands and influence opinions? Hope I don't come off sounding negative towards anyone here because I actually do value your opinion!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
I meant if there truly was a difference in separation/crosstalk you could see if it was reflected in the spec rather than taking a subjective opinion as fact. Who knows what they're actually describing under what conditions with what speakers etc? Subjective reviews I pay little attention to in any case, don't find them particularly helpful.
 

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