New Anthem STR- wiring question

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Maybe this thread will be revived in about 2 or 3 years and we will see what really happens.

It's not the first and won't be the last of it's kind.

In the mean time, enjoy the new toy!

Looking back now, I just cannot believe that I would ever buy $22K speakers, $18K speakers, $15K speakers, $9K speakers, $7,500 Pre-pros, $5,500 AVR, $9K amps, $3K SACD Player, etc. But I did.

The honeymoon periods were sweet.

It's too bad Sam's Club don't sell all these things and offer a 6-month return policy.

About 2 years go (maybe 3), another Audioholics forum member here bought some nice B&W 802D2 like I did. He also bought some pretty McIntosh amps and preamps to go along. I bet the honeymoon period was sweet for him too. About a year or so later, he sold both his 802Ds and McIntosh amps.

Everyone must take his own journey and know for himself. Just got to. No way around it.

Even if you went back in time to convince yourself otherwise, you would still fail.

 

[PENG]

Maybe this thread will be revived in about 2 or 3 years and we will see what really happens.

It's not the first and won't be the last of it's kind.

In the mean time, enjoy the new toy!

Looking back now, I just cannot believe that I would ever buy $22K speakers, $18K speakers, $15K speakers, $9K speakers, $7,500 Pre-pros, $5,500 AVR, $9K amps, $3K SACD Player, etc. But I did.

The honeymoon periods were sweet.

It's too bad Sam's Club don't sell all these things and offer a 6-month return policy.

About 2 years go (maybe 3), another Audioholics forum member here bought some nice B&W 802D2 like I did. He also bought some pretty McIntosh amps and preamps to go along. I bet the honeymoon period was sweet for him too. About a year or so later, he sold both his 802Ds and McIntosh amps.

Everyone must take his own journey and know for himself. Just got to. No way around it.

Even if you went back in time to convince yourself otherwise, you would still fail.

It happened to my brother too, that's how I ended up ("hand-me-down") with my treasured vintage Marantz preamp and power amp. I love watching those big watt meters though. Not as pretty as Mc's but also a totally different style. I won't be selling any of my toys any time soon, as I do really appreciate them, just not so much in sound quality any more.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It happened to my brother too, that's how I ended up ("hand-me-down") with my treasured vintage Marantz preamp and power amp. I love watching those big watt meters though. Not as pretty as Mc's but also a totally different style. I won't be selling any of my toys any time soon, as I do really appreciate them, just not so much in sound quality any more.

I don't know if my 2 younger brothers frequent any audio forums. But if they do, I bet they probably say the same about me.

Yeah, McIntosh amps and pre-pros are sexy for sure. Gotta love them.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks for the replies. I'm not a placebo effect kind of person, at all. I'm very perceptive technical and factual. If I didn't notice difference, I was ready to return the STR and pocket $4k. Read other reviews on these Polk a9s. Funny enough other people said the same thing as me. They were disappointed with how flat they sounded until they fed it a proper amp. There is undoubtedly more bass and better sound with the STR. On the same track, I'd have to crank the Denon to the point I thought I was gonna start clipping to get some bass. On the Anthem, even at grandma listening levels, the towers are giving a deep thud that goes through my chest. I wouldn't lie to you guys, just want to give me honest review.
Streaming on the Denon was another reason I returned it. I had choppy lagging,and occasionally "file format not supported" half way through a damn song and it just crashes. Don't get me wrong, the Denon is great for all the features you get for the money, but there's no comparison. Loan an STR or a higher end amp from your dealer on your setup if you run an AVR now and tell me you don't hear a difference.

Yes, as I said in my earlier post, I tried the Polk's with the STR right out of the box. No updates, no room correction loaded, nothing. (It takes like an hour to fully set this thing up and I just wanted to hear some tunes first) Before and after. Still sounded better than the Denon even without the EQ.

The STR DAC isn't as good as AVR DACs? Man.. Ask around, look it up. There's no comparison. They source these from _______ and usually cost thousands just for the DAC. look at the circuitry inside this unit, compare it to any AVR. Enough said.

I was skeptical of how much an amp/preamp could change the way your system sounded, try it for yourself. Another first hand example I have is, my friends BW 2 channel setup. Speakers alone were $30,000. He tried it on a low-midrange Yamaha, then Nakamichi, then Marantz, and finally to a McIntosh. He's never going back. Keep in mind this is a guy who does literally blind tests on equipment and songs, and can guess 9/10 between audio file quality and medium.

The Polk's are probably finding a nice new home in someone's living room........

How would you know you're not a placebo effect kind of person without a proper comparison? Yours was sighted and not level matched let alone blind so not all that interesting. We've all been there as was said. I still have 2ch gear, too...just don't use it all that much in my most frequently used rooms, avrs run the systems there as I don't find the sound qualities particularly different in 2ch mode. If you were on the Polk forums listening to the fanbois talking about amps opening up their speakers....meh.

The STR may indeed have the Denon beat on network streaming as a controller/server....I just use my avrs as a renderer myself and they're fine for that.

If the DAC cost thousands (and they don't) then your unit would have cost much much more (and someone like Denon would have an advantage if so, as they sell a hell of a lot more units than Anthem and could demand a better price on the chip). I'd go with Peng on the dac thing, he follows them pretty carefully. Anthem may have higher costs depending how much is done in Canada, but just how much is from Canada I don't know (having been a customs broker in my career and seeing the games played with origin of components/goods).

In any case, I am glad you're enjoying your amp, and glad you're getting better speakers than those Polks, too. I won't be running to the store to check out the STR integrated amp.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Been there, done that for years, and I am still holding on to my collection of amps, including your favorite brand, I do own one Anthem amp. So if this your first $5000 integrated amp, you are really just started to follow the path that some of us (such as HD and ADTG) have already been on for a a long time, and learned our lessons!

Our high-end-sexy-components path started over 20YR and $200K ago.

Give us some Mountain Dews because we've been there and done it, brother.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks for the replies. I'm not a placebo effect kind of person, at all. I'm very perceptive technical and factual.

Hey, that's what I said 25 YR ago too.

Just out of curiosity and not to offend at all, but how old are you?

Heck, if I could be 25 YO again just coming out of college and starting my career at my hospital, I would buy some $5K amps too just because I'm 25 YO.

 

[WineOfTheVeins]

I appreciate all the replies, I see you have your opinions on some things and I have mine.
The Denon is good for what it is, don't get me wrong. I've had two Denons now, one still running my 5.1 and it's great for what is does. Playing music from the media server was a little clunky, and again, I found the sound quality much different. I promise you, at same level of volume, the Anthem sounds better and produces more bass. It's not hard to imagine why, capacitance is one variable that comes to mind from an electrician's standpoint.
It's so noticable only a dead man couldn't tell the difference. Take it or leave it.

I am happy with my purchase and that's what matters. The DAC is Mark Levinson 32 bit 384, more than what anyone needs anyway. Sometimes there's more going on inside an amp than what a data sheet says. Size of capacitors, where they're placed, how all the circuitry is arranged and the quality of every single component. I like the simplicity of a strict 2 channel amp, not something with 500 gizmos, gadgets and inputs including video which I'll never use. The total harmonic distortion ratings are also very impressive, end of the day, it sounds great, looks great, is built with pride and has a long full blown warranty. I've bought it once and don't need to buy again. I figure what's the point in buying something mediocre and wanting to upgrade it down the road? Costs more in the long run.

Thanks again. Let this thread get covered in sand and tumbleweed.

 

[PENG]

I should have been clear, once again, more watts, amperes, voltages, capacitance, transformer VA only matter if called to use. One can have huge overdose of any or all of those things but if one listens to 75 dB average in a medium size room sitting 10-11 feet away, average power output driving speakers with average sensitivity (say high 80's), 4 to 8 ohm nominal, the amp will output less than one or a few watts average, with peaks up to 50 watts or a little higher per channel depending on certain things including the music contents. In such scenario, no amount of overdose would matter, though people could still imagine all sorts of things.

 

[PENG]

I'd go with Peng on the dac thing, he follows them pretty carefully. Anthem may have higher costs depending how much is done in Canada, but just how much is from Canada I don't know (having been a customs broker in my career and seeing the games played with origin of components/goods).

Actually the website does say the STR supports DSD, though only up to 5.6 MHz, same as the D&M AVRs in that sense. I was being too harsh in this case on the STR, probably affected by it's high price tag for what it is and resent the fact that they don't disclose the the chip model on the website (or I missed it somehow).

 

[PENG]

I appreciate all the replies, I see you have your opinions on some things and I have mine.

Absolutely, we all should respect each other's opinions.

It's not hard to imagine why, capacitance is one variable that comes to mind from an electrician's standpoint.

Facts matter, yes capacitance plays a role, but the STR does not have a whole lot, compared to amps in similar price range. You can see in the pictures that it has 4X8,200 uf, that's only 32,800 uf total. The 400W STR power amp has twice as much and that's still only 65,200 uf total. Even my 150W rated Marantz SM-7 has 4X15,000 uf, and the 250 W Halo A21 has about 90,000 uf (website claims 100,000 uf) just a couple of quick examples.

The toroidal transformer is not that big either, looks to be about 750 to 850VA but okay that's just my educated guess based on visual and related specs, not considered facts at all.

I am happy with my purchase and that's what matters.

Of course.

Thanks again. Let this thread get covered in sand and tumbleweed.

Sure, I am only posting now in case other potential amp seekers may be following this thread and they may be interested in the combination of opinions and facts presented here.

 

[lovinthehd]

Actually the website does say the STR supports DSD, though only up to 5.6 MHz, same as the D&M AVRs in that sense. I was being too harsh in this case on the STR, probably affected by it's high price tag for what it is and resent the fact that they don't disclose the the chip model on the website (or I missed it somehow).

Was kinda wondering about a 2ch unit that wouldn't handle SACD....but then I saw the preview piece here on AH that said it did. I do wonder what OP means by a Mark Levinson DAC, tho; when I looked around at Mark Levinson DACs it seems they've used fairly traditional chip suppliers...

 

[PENG]

Was kinda wondering about a 2ch unit that wouldn't handle SACD....but then I saw the preview piece here on AH that said it did. I do wonder what OP means by a Mark Levinson DAC, tho; when I looked around at Mark Levinson DACs it seems they've used fairly traditional chip suppliers...

I always try hard to avoid stating something that is factually incorrect, but it happened, sorry! It is still clear that something at this price point cannot play all the high resolution formats, on the DSD side anyway. I am also puzzled about the ML DAC thing, I thought ML does not make DAC chips.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Facts matter, yes capacitance plays a role, but the STR does not have a whole lot, compared to amps in similar price range. You can see in the pictures that it has 4X8,200 uf, that's only 32,800 uf total.


Even my 150W rated Marantz SM-7 has 4X15,000 uf, and the 250 W Halo A21 has about 90,000 uf (website claims 100,000 uf) just a couple of quick examples.

The toroidal transformer is not that big either, looks to be about 750 to 850VA...

Pretty disappointing capacitance and transformer for a $5K amp.

When comparing power measurements of the Anthem vs Denon AVR, for the same price, the Denon always outperform.

 

[PENG]

Pretty disappointing capacitance and transformer for a $5K amp.

When comparing power measurements of the Anthem vs Denon AVR, for the same price, the Denon always outperform.

If you want to compare apple to apple though, Denon's top model 50/100W, 8/4-ohms integrated amp costs significant more and no build in DAC.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If you want to compare apple to apple though, Denon's top model 50/100W, 8/4-ohms integrated amp costs significant more and no build in DAC.

I owned 3 Denon Integrated Amps in the past. No DAC. I didn’t want DAC back then, though. Back then I was about analog and shortest-path and all that. Let my $4,000 SACD player do the DAC.

I was much younger then.

 

[Will Brink]

Maybe this thread will be revived in about 2 or 3 years ...

Done! What, if anything has been learned about this integrated amp? Anyone bench test it to see how/if their performance claims held up? It seems like a fine unit that could be on my short list, but I'm surprised and disappointed by the low capacitance figures considering. I'd also expect a dual mono topology, or is that too much to as at 4.5? Seems owners are generally happy with them.

Currently I'm using a TagMclaren 5 channel amp to bi amp to chan set up and TagMclaren pre /pro which were great for HT and 2chan. Only doing 2chan these days so figured I'd use the extra channels cuz I can until when/if I decide to get back to 2chan dedicated gear and the Anthem looked good.

the tag stuff is older gear now, but it's been great, so probably run it until it dies if i'm smart. But I'm not always smart, have audiophile upgrade OCD, which means I'm looking around now.

PS: Only testing I could find was via stereophile, and If I'm reading correctly, appears to fall short of it's power claims:

Anthem Electronics STR D/A integrated amplifier Measurements

Sidebar 4: Measurements

www.stereophile.com

 

[PENG]

ave audiophile upgrade OCD, which means I'm looking around now.

PS: Only testing I could find was via stereophile, and If I'm reading correctly, appears to fall short of it's power claims:

Anthem Electronics STR D/A integrated amplifier Measurements

Sidebar 4: Measurements

www.stereophile.com

Then why stop at integrated, why not go separate all the way?

I would just take a look of the preamps/power amps measured by ASR and pick a pair from the top 5 that should have much better measured performance than the STR measured by Stereophile. The difference will most likely not translate into audible difference but a lot of audiophile will disagree with me for sure.

 

[Will Brink]

Then why stop at integrated, why not go separate all the way?

I would just take a look of the preamps/power amps measured by ASR and pick a pair from the top 5 that should have much better measured performance than the STR measured by Stereophile. The difference will most likely not translate into audible difference but a lot of audiophile will disagree with me for sure.

Per above, I'm using separates now, but open to a good integrated. I have not looked at what the top rated pre/amps on ASR are yet.

 

[PENG]

Per above, I'm using separates now, but open to a good integrated. I have not looked at what the top rated pre/amps on ASR are yet.

It is not hard to pick out a well measured power amp:
Denon AVR-X3700H AVR Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

Pre amp would be the tough one to find, but if you are open to desktop dac or headphone amps that takes analog inputs, then there are plenty that would beat the STR and many other much more expensive preamps. I have a Cambridge Audio preamp and a couple others that I rarely used since I started acquiring those DACs/Headphone amps.

 

[Will Brink]

It is not hard to pick out a well measured power amp:
Denon AVR-X3700H AVR Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

Pre amp would be the tough one to find, but if you are open to desktop dac or headphone amps that takes analog inputs, then there are plenty that would beat the STR and many other much more expensive preamps. I have a Cambridge Audio preamp and a couple others that I rarely used since I started acquiring those DACs/Headphone amps.

Interesting. I'm new to the idea of using DAC/headphone amps as a pre amp in a 2.1 chan system. What about them will beat the AVR pre amp or your Cambridge Audio stuff? Specs? Audible differences? No doubt a big $ savings at least.