Network Attached Storage (NAS)

[AcuDefTechGuy]

this dude on the hardforum has an crazy 100 TB nas build

loud as hell too :O

not sure how much he's spending, but here are his specs:
* Case: Chenbro RM91250 9U 50-Bay Storage Center Server Chassis with 1620 Watt 3+1 Redundant Power Supply
* Motherboard: ASUS P7P55 WS SUPERCOMPUTER Motherboard
* CPU: Intel i7-860 2.8GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor
* RAM: G.Skill F3-12800CL7D-4GBRM Ripjaw DDR3 1600MHz 4GB Dual Channel Memory Kit
* GPU: Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 5450 1GB GDDR3 1600MHz DVI/HDMI/D-SUB PCI-E 2.0 Graphics Card
* RAID Controller: Areca ARC-1680i PCI-E x8 SAS RAID Adapter
* SAS Expander: 2 x HP 36-Port SAS Expander Cards
* ODD: Lite-On DL-8ATS SATA Slot Load Black Slim CD/DVD Burner
* HDD: 52 x WD20EADS 2TB 32MB SATA 3Gb/s Caviar Green Drives
* UPS: APC Matrix-UPS 5KVA XR 208V/240V in 120/208/240 Out with 3 x APC Matrix-UPS SmartCell XR Battery Packs
* O/S: TBD - Maybe Microsoft Windows Home Server V2 (when it finally gets released) or Windows Server 2008 R2 - More about this later

A 100TB NAS?

Makes me JEALOUS!!!

That's priceless.......or maybe I should say PRICEY.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Jumbo frames aren't really going to increase your throughput, only make large transfers faster. Think of it like if you are going to move. If you put everything in smaller boxes you will have to make more trips in and out of the house using more energy....if you use bigger boxes then you can get the same work accomplished with less effort. Jumbo frames really just reduces your CPU load bit lowering the packet calculation overhead.

Does HDD allocation size work the same way?

Like using a 64K allocation size, instead of 4K, for large file storage?

 

[krzywica]

Does HDD allocation size work the same way?

Like using a 64K allocation size, instead of 4K, for large file storage?

Allocation size has a direct correlation to cluster size...which determines the maximum array size. There are also a lot of other factors involved. More importantly though is the stripe size if you are creating any type of RAID array. So to answer your question....sort of but not really. It can have a small effect that can only be seen by benchmarks or by servers who have a predefined load type, like database servers. That is as long as you stay within the normal clucster size....going to the extreme extent either way can have performance consequences.

See this article for in depth explanation as it is very in depth and wordy with lots of fancy acronyms that I would have to further expound upon to make sense.

http://www.ntfs.com/ntfs_optimization.htm

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

96Khz TrueHD Audio via Network

I found out something weird last night.

I was playing a 96kHz TrueHD audio (Dave Mathews) via the network and it gave me drop-outs.

I played the same BD ISO file directly from the HDD and it was perfect.

Everything else 48Khz Audio (TrueHD, DTS-HD MA) is perfect via network playback.

So for some reasons, 96kHz seemed to be an issue with my network.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Allocation size has a direct correlation to cluster size...

See this article for in depth explanation as it is very in depth and wordy with lots of fancy acronyms that I would have to further expound upon to make sense.

http://www.ntfs.com/ntfs_optimization.htm

"If you are going to store multimedia stuff that is usually huge in size, make cluster bigger to increase a performance. If you plan to store small web pages or text documents, make cluster size smaller not to lose a lot of disk space."

So basically what it is saying is that if I store BD files that are at leat 12GB each, my allocation size should be 64K?

 

[krzywica]

I found out something weird last night.

I was playing a 96kHz TrueHD audio (Dave Mathews) via the network and it gave me drop-outs.

I played the same BD ISO file directly from the HDD and it was perfect.

Everything else 48Khz Audio (TrueHD, DTS-HD MA) is perfect via network playback.

So for some reasons, 96kHz seemed to be an issue with my network.

Hmm interesting...have you tried other files @96kHz?

"If you are going to store multimedia stuff that is usually huge in size, make cluster bigger to increase a performance. If you plan to store small web pages or text documents, make cluster size smaller not to lose a lot of disk space."

So basically what it is saying is that if I store BD files that are at leat 12GB each, my allocation size should be 64K?

Yes or higher...but it really isn't that pertinent.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hmm interesting...have you tried other files @96kHz?

No, but now I found out something even worse.

I have 2 main PCs with the new ATI Radeon 5xxx cards:

PC#1: Sapphire 5750
PC#2: PowerColor 5450

Using the network & watching Dave Mathews BD 96kHz TrueHD via the NAS, only the PC with the Radeon 5750 gives me a problem.

The PC with the Radeon 5450 does NOT give me a problem at all!

Could this be the fault of the 5750?

Both PCs have identical OS & Drivers for everything.

But when I watch on PC#1 HD5750 via the HDD directly, not via the network, it plays perfectly.

This can be reproduced Time After Time (I was listening to that song in the car).

 

[GlocksRock]

try swapping video cards and see what happens

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

try swapping video cards and see what happens

I might just do that next week.

It kind of pisses me off that a $50 card outperforms a $150 card!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...have you tried other files @96kHz?

Okay, I was able to reproduce the same results on Celine Dion BD 96kHz TrueHd played via NAS (using latest ATI Radeon drivers v10.5). When played directly from HDD, it worked perfectly.

When played on the other PC with ATI HD5450 via NAS, it was perfect.

So it seems like my ATI HD5750 has issues with 96kHz TrueHD playing via NAS for some strange reasons.

I will next try a 96kHz DTS-HDMA on the HD5750 via NAS.

Is this a case in which More (HD5750) is LESS (HD5450)?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I will next try a 96kHz DTS-HDMA on the HD5750 via NAS.

It worked perfectly without a glitch.

DTS-HD MA rules.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well, I switched graphics cards.

Looks like the cards were not the issues here.

Now PC#2 (Gigabyte MoBo/AMD CPU) with the ATI5750 works with the network playback of TrueHD 96kHz.

So could it be the motherboard in PC#1 (Asus P5Q Pro Turbo) that is the problem?

 

[Warpdrv]

The SuperMicro does look very nice and higher quality than the Norco.

I still laugh everytime I see the world "NORCO" because it is one of the brand names of the narcotic Hydrocodone.

But anyway, so the SuperMicro is $1,000 for the case (24 HDD bays + five 80mm fans + 900W PSU)?

You still have to add the MoBo,CPU, RAM, SATA RAID cards, + HDDs.

I can see $120+ x 24 2TB HDDs = $2880+.

So the total cost will be > $4K.

So what did you include in your NAS/Server?

Forgot to get back to this thread
Yes, no question it was an expensive build.... The HDD's really being the most expensive part, but I think its truly the way to go for the long term for sure... Why keep upgrading all the equipment every time you turn around when you can just slide in a HDD and expand the whole thing.

I'm really happy I went in this direction even though I had a few hiccups along the way, its all good now.

My build thread is around here somewhere, motherboard mirrored HD's for OS, expensive/expandable RAID card, which supports 28 HDD's plus more, and all the rest of the stuff needed for a normal computer build...

The build out - Case, Raid Card, other parts was roughly @ $2600 without all the HDD's for storage. Here's a pic, that is the Norco Case at the bottom, now the Supermicro is in there instead...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Forgot to get back to this thread
Yes, no question it was an expensive build.... The HDD's really being the most expensive part, but I think its truly the way to go for the long term for sure... Why keep upgrading all the equipment every time you turn around when you can just slide in a HDD and expand the whole thing.

I'm really happy I went in this direction even though I had a few hiccups along the way, its all good now.

My build thread is around here somewhere, motherboard mirrored HD's for OS, expensive/expandable RAID card, which supports 28 HDD's plus more, and all the rest of the stuff needed for a normal computer build...

The build out - Case, Raid Card, other parts was roughly @ $2600 without all the HDD's for storage. Here's a pic, that is the Norco Case at the bottom, now the Supermicro is in there instead...

Wow, that looks very impressive indeed.

 

[Warpdrv]

Thanks

Well my buddy got me the rack for free, and when I looked at it the first time I was like WTF am I gunna do with that....?

When I realized that I could put my amps in it, it was a no brainer - I only had 4 amps at the time, so back then it really seemed like seriously overkill, but then further down the line after talking with Krzywica, the thought of a full on rack mount server just fit in place, all of this is in the basement so I don't have to hear the fans of any of the amps or the server, which is louder then all the amps together.

It was only then after that, that I started my sub upgrade where I was just going to replace the amps I have with bigger powered units.... but my build worked out differently then that - so I just added more amps to what I had - giving each driver its own 4000w for my 3 x dual opposed 18" LMS upgrade.

I wasn't going to say anything about the sub upgrade until it was finished, but the boxes are taking far longer then projected, which I am very disappointed about...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks

Well my buddy got me the rack for free, and when I looked at it the first time I was like WTF am I gunna do with that....?

When I realized that I could put my amps in it, it was a no brainer - I only had 4 amps at the time, so back then it really seemed like seriously overkill, but then further down the line after talking with Krzywica, the thought of a full on rack mount server just fit in place, all of this is in the basement so I don't have to hear the fans of any of the amps or the server, which is louder then all the amps together.

It was only then after that, that I started my sub upgrade where I was just going to replace the amps I have with bigger powered units.... but my build worked out differently then that - so I just added more amps to what I had - giving each driver its own 4000w for my 3 x dual opposed 18" LMS upgrade.

I wasn't going to say anything about the sub upgrade until it was finished, but the boxes are taking far longer then projected, which I am very disappointed about...

Very cool indeed.

I feel like a very tiny little fish about now.

 

[Warpdrv]

Very cool indeed.

I feel like a very tiny little fish about now.

Naaaah.... its just what you do when one has built dozens of PC's, but they were all way old school, first build was a 486-66, then I thought pentiums were quite the slice of heaven.... Cripes - we used to run the dam processor to the hilt just creating fractal images in motion.... that was an all night scenario after some good party drunk....

My buddies had Apple II's, we used to play "Conan the Barbarian" and "Lemmings" and fire up on some of the first BBS boards playing D&D type games... Now those are the games that will teach you how to type... Chime in if any of this sounds familiar. The first starting of modem like in wargames to communicate with other computers across a phoneline...

Ground breaking stuff at the time, and it was great to be able to experience it - it certainly makes one appreciate how far things have come.... looking at the computers at Nasa for the Gemini & Apollo launch platforms, and how many years later we can hold a calculator in our hands from Radio Shack that has more RAM and CPU power then those walls of computers processing powers were even capable of...

Everyone should have the type of journey of building computers and learning software and hardware - and the relationships, good or bad. There used to be days where very it was extremely difficult to get hardware to work really well with software like windows, some extremely expensive and frustrating times when things weren't compatible with windows.

In so many ways its been so much like the HT journey.....