Need some clarification on signal path

[itschris]

I let my buddy borrow my streamer and preamp with HT bypass to demo on his system for a couple weeks before he drops a few grand on the setup himself. So for now, I went back to just using my Apple TV 4K for everything including music via Apple Music. As I was listening yesterday I started thinking about how I have it connected and what was actually happening. I noticed when I adjusted the volume with the Apple controller… the onscreen pop up showed the volume but said “AV Receiver HDMI-eARC” which suddenly started making me think about it. So real quick: Onkyo RZ70 is preouts to my Sunfire. I’ll leave out all the other stuff for simplicity. The AppleTV is HDMI into the receiver. Samsung TV is connected HDMI eARC to eARC on the receiver. Samsung is set to use eARC and AnyNet/CEC. Sound output says “Receiver HDMI-eARC”. HDMI eARC is set to auto. Digital Output Audio is set to “Pass Through”. AppleTV setting have Audio set to “Receiver Speakers”. Indint see any other available options that make sense or there are no other options.

So what’s happening? I thought because the AppleTV was going through the receiver… audio would just be processed through the Onkyo and sent out to the amp. But now I’m thinking the audio and video (the onscreen music app and UI) are all going out to the TV then back out of the TV to the receiver via eARC. Is it making a full circle? I turned off eARC and could not figure any way to get sound from the AppleTV. So that tells me in my mind that it’s all going in a circle. I was thinking the audio portion would just be processed via the HDMI that the AppleTV was plugged into in the Onkyo. Now I’m thinking about my blu-ray. Is that doing the same thing? Is it all going out to the TV and and the TV is just it sending back via what… PCM? for the receiver to then decode? I’m hoping I’m thinking i got this all wrong and it’s all fine. Let me know what you guys think as I’m fairly perplexed at this point. Thanks.

 

[highfigh]

Source to AVR, AVR to TV. No other sources should have an effect on another.

Once you get it back to normal or find the best configuration, label the cables and make a diagram.

 

[Trebdp83]

It is not going in a circle but HDMI-CEC is an ugly thing and will do funny things with different TVs. If you do not need eARC from the TV, move the HDMI cable from the TV’s eARC port to another port. Samsung TVs should still allow HDMI-CEC capabilities like receiver volume control and external device control when connected to another port.

When making changes to CEC/eARC, the receiver may switch its audio out setting from AMP to TV or turn MUTE ON. This may be why the audio cut out. But, again, the audio signal is not actually going to the TV and back using the eARC connection.

The Apple TV 4K should be sending everything but Dolby Atmos tracks to the receiver as multichannel PCM. So, don’t be concerned with that part of it.

 

[itschris]

Okay. I ran an HDMI from every port on the TV and did tag everything and ran it through the wall so I can easily swap to a different cable and see what happens. So once I do that… I turn eARC off on my TV correct? It should be okay to put that different hdmi back into the TV out on the receiver correct? So I assuming what’s really happening is just the Apple app UI is going through to the TV but the audio is coming from the Apple TV to the receiver … being decided or processed there… than just going through the preouts. It’s not the TV audio that being sent back to the TV

 

[Trebdp83]

Right. When HDMI-CEC is ON, the TV is the boss and everything is communicated and approved by it. Everything has to be run by the HDCP officer. Check if HDMI control is still functional using any other port. Some TVs only allow HDMI-CEC remote control features through the eARC port.

Also, depending on the connected devices and the generation of the Apple TV 4K , it may report the connected device as TV, Receiver, or as you experienced, Receiver HDMI-eARC.

 

[itschris]

Right. When HDMI-CEC is ON, the TV is the boss and everything is communicated and approved by it. Everything has to be run by the HDCP officer. Check if HDMI control is still functional using any other port. Some TVs only allow HDMI-CEC remote control features through the eARC port.

Also, depending on the connected devices and the generation of the Apple TV 4K , it may report the connected device as TV, Receiver, or as you experienced, Receiver HDMI-eARC.

Thanks brother. I’ll mess around with it. As long as I know that I’m not doing some sort of stupid carousel of my signal. I was just concerned that my TV was actually capturing and sending and otherwise degrading my signal back to my receiver… which of course would have defeated the entire purpose of having my AppleTV (newest model) hooked direct to the receiver and getting the benefit of the hi-res lossless quality streaming. I’ll have my streamer and preamp back soon but it’s nice just to have an easy way to listen to my music since I use my AppleTV as my primary hub. It’s still nice just to run my music from the AppleTV rather than using the streamer which I really only use for serious listening. Thanks again and free feel to advise further if you think of anything

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks brother. I’ll mess around with it. As long as I know that I’m not doing some sort of stupid carousel of my signal. I was just concerned that my TV was actually capturing and sending and otherwise degrading my signal back to my receiver… which of course would have defeated the entire purpose of having my AppleTV (newest model) hooked direct to the receiver and getting the benefit of the hi-res lossless quality streaming. I’ll have my streamer and preamp back soon but it’s nice just to have an easy way to listen to my music since I use my AppleTV as my primary hub. It’s still nice just to run my music from the AppleTV rather than using the streamer which I really only use for serious listening. Thanks again and free feel to advise further if you think of anything

One consideration of ARC/eARC is that is simply a return of audio from the display, or rather sourcing audio from the display; if you don't have your audio routed thru the display it's meaningless.

 

[itschris]

One consideration of ARC/eARC is that is simply a return of audio from the display, or rather sourcing audio from the display; if you don't have your audio routed thru the display it's meaningless.

So when AppleTV Music is on the TV playing music… my concern was that the TV was sending the signal back to the receiver. I am just gonna just use a different TV HDMI rather than the TV eARC port I’m using now

 

[lovinthehd]

So when AppleTV Music is on the TV playing music… my concern was that the TV was sending the signal back to the receiver. I am just gonna just use a different TV HDMI rather than the TV eARC port I’m using now

I'd simply plug the Atv into the receiver. It's not a round trip, the arc or earc audio just comes to the receiver back thru the same hdmi cable as the output to the display from the receiver....

 

[lovinthehd]

So when AppleTV Music is on the TV playing music… my concern was that the TV was sending the signal back to the receiver. I am just gonna just use a different TV HDMI rather than the TV eARC port I’m using now

Did you have the source routed thru avr or tv? If it's only back from tv, means you had audio into tv....which I wouldn't do

 

[itschris]

Did you have the source routed thru avr or tv? If it's only back from tv, means you had audio into tv....which I wouldn't do

Nope. The AppleTV is HDMI into the receiver. What concerned me and got me down the rabbits hole was when I adjusted the volume the pop up said “AV Receiver HDMI-eARC” which made me think that somehow because Apple Music was on my TV it was now outputting the sound out of the TV to the receiver instead of the HDMI from the AppleTV box direct HDMI to the receiver

 

[lovinthehd]

Nope. The AppleTV is HDMI into the receiver. What concerned me and got me down the rabbits hole was when I adjusted the volume the pop up said “AV Receiver HDMI-eARC” which made me think that somehow because Apple Music was on my TV it was now outputting the sound out of the TV to the receiver instead of the HDMI from the AppleTV box direct HDMI to the receiver

I don't know why the popup said as much except that it sensed the connection was in place, I'd not assume it was signal routing if the source is plugged into the avr. If anything the HDMI, even using ARC/eARC ports and settings, is lacking audio from the avr to tv let alone the tv using it to turn around back to the avr.

 

[Eppie]

Nope. The AppleTV is HDMI into the receiver. What concerned me and got me down the rabbits hole was when I adjusted the volume the pop up said “AV Receiver HDMI-eARC” which made me think that somehow because Apple Music was on my TV it was now outputting the sound out of the TV to the receiver instead of the HDMI from the AppleTV box direct HDMI to the receiver

Nothing to be concerned about. I get the same on screen info from my Denon AVR and Samsung TV. It's just the AVR telling you which port is active. While you do not need e-ARC to use devices connected to the AVR, if you use any built in streaming services on the TV, then you need e-ARC for that to get audio to the AVR. e-ARC usually requires that CEC is enabled and if CEC is working properly it passes volume information between the TV and AVR.

 

[Trebdp83]

Different TVs and their different HDMI-CEC implementations will change the display of certain devices concerning the HDMI connection. The eARC feature was supposed to free folks from having to use HDMI-CEC to get audio back to an AVP/AVR. But, certain TVs will turn HDMI-CEC ON automatically to use the eARC feature BUT it does NOT need to be ON at the receiving end to use eARC. If using ARC, not eARC, HDMI-CEC must be ON at both ends.

When using a newer Onkyo Receiver with HDMI-CEC ON in the receiver and ON in every device, the Onkyo remote controller can be used to control devices that allow it over HDMI-CEC. So, if using HDMI-CEC and selecting the Apple TV 4K as the source device, simply press the MODE button on the Onkyo remote controller and CEC will display on the front panel. It will now control the Apple TV 4K. To tweak receiver settings, simply press the MODE button again to return to receiver control. RCV will display on the front panel to signal the return to the default remote control function.

 

[itschris]

@Trebdp83 @Eppie @lovinthehd
Thanks a ton guys. I feel a lot better now. It's when you see or sense contradictory things it rattles you a bit. I appreciate all the advice and clarifications.