Need side surround speaker height advice

G

grodzki

Audioholic Intern
I'm setting up a 5.1 surround sound system for the first time. I have the Jamo S 803 Home Cinema System (which I'm aware may or may not be kinda crappy apart from the front left/right speakers, but I got it for an absolute steal). The Jamo manual calls for setting the top of the side surround speakers 6 feet above the floor. This would put the center of the tweeter about 69 inches above the floor - which is 33 above a presumed 36 inch high listening level. Does this make sense? It seems too high to me.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I've used surrounds at that height as well as below but has been depending on my options available. I think most common suggestion is 2-3 feet above ear height and depending on distance from the speaker maybe even some angling of the speaker towards the seats.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
That would be a common recommendation a few years ago. Now, surrounds are recommended at ear level as height channels are now here.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
For a traditional 5.1 yeah, that’s normal. If your adding Atmos then you’ll want them closer to ear height. But for standard you can go a little higher or lower.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
It brings up more questions in my mind, but I’ll post them in another thread, not here to hijack it.
 
G

grodzki

Audioholic Intern
That would be a common recommendation a few years ago. Now, surrounds are recommended at ear level as height channels are now here.
Thanks. Does that mean center of speaker at ear level? Center of tweeter at ear level? Or does it not make much difference for an 11 inch tall speaker? I'm kicking myself because I bought these beautiful Kanto SP32PL 32 inch high stands for my front right/left channels, which I'm thinking I need to return because they're too high for the 14 inch tall front speakers.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Down the road there are Dolby Atmos modules I can get for the front channels, which I will probably do.
You mean bouncy speakers? Personally I'd rather hold off until I want to mess with my ceilings (so no atmos yet for me).

I usually aim at tweeters being at ear height. If the surrounds need to be high up sometimes I turn the speakers around to lower the tweeters. I've got four surround setups, some with surrounds closer to ear height, one a couple feet above, one in between.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
Ok, thanks. Let me gather my thoughts. I shall return.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
Firstly, I think your speakers are kinda' cool. That is an interesting way of connecting the height module. Did you get the walnut finish speakers? If you are going to get the modules, I'd put the surrounds near ear level. I'd do it anyway depending on your listening habits. My first surround sound setup included Klipsch KG 1.5 speakers that I used as surround speakers and were put up into the back corners of the room pointed toward the main listening position. I think I can blame some of my hearing issues on that room and setup. The room may have been 11'x11'. I had Klipsch Forte II's and a Klipsch KV3 up front. Later, I had a Polk RM6200 satellite setup. They were set up the same way. After getting a 7.1 AVR, I ordered two RM1300 speakers and moved the surrounds to the side. The surrounds and back surrounds were mounted high and pointed down toward ear level. I would use these speakers for twenty years and only moved everything to ear height when I moved from 7.1 to 5.1.2. I used the back surrounds as front heights in bounce mode. Occasionally, it sounded pretty good. Normally, not so much. Good placement is key and it must be right on or it just doesn't really work. Life happens, people move to new homes and the perfect speakers in the perfect room cannot be achieved. It doesn't mean things can't still sound good. So, being the cheapskate I am these days, I wanted a dirt cheap set of speakers that had a good rep. I decided on two pair of the Dayton Audio MK442's and the MK442 center channel and returned to a 5.1 system for the first time in many years. I blame/thank Gene and Steve Guttenberg for their Youtube videos on the Dayton Audio speakers. I didn't want to get new stands and didn't need to with four towers. I listen to my collection of DTS CD's, SACD's and DVD-Audio's often and like the music all around at ear level. It also still sounds good when watching movies. But, that may not be the case with different speakers. Now, Dolby Atmos music is available and I'm tempted to change things up again. Anyway, I remember THX speaker placement recommendations from the WOW laserdisc from olden times. Those were made when Dolby Pro Logic was the thing and surrounds were mono with sounds extracted from the fronts. Surrounds were ideally dipoles that were mounted higher than ear level. Now, we have object based sound going on. My question is, are the audio tracks and surround sound processes assuming that surrounds and back surrounds are installed at ear level now? Is room correction software in new gear compensating for older speaker placement setups. We know virtualizer processing for Dolby and DTS try to simulate height channels for systems that do not have them. Does the processing also compensate for surrounds and back surrounds that have been mounted high up since olden times and virtualize in reverse? I know, stupid questions to some I'm sure, but I can't stop wondering about it all. Sorry for carrying on so long. I hope you enjoy your speakers and get them positioned in the way that sounds best to you.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Firstly, I think your speakers are kinda' cool. That is an interesting way of connecting the height module. Did you get the walnut finish speakers? If you are going to get the modules, I'd put the surrounds near ear level. I'd do it anyway depending on your listening habits. My first surround sound setup included Klipsch KG 1.5 speakers that I used as surround speakers and were put up into the back corners of the room pointed toward the main listening position. I think I can blame some of my hearing issues on that room and setup. The room may have been 11'x11'. I had Klipsch Forte II's and a Klipsch KV3 up front. Later, I had a Polk RM6200 satellite setup. They were set up the same way. After getting a 7.1 AVR, I ordered two RM1300 speakers and moved the surrounds to the side. The surrounds and back surrounds were mounted high and pointed down toward ear level. I would use these speakers for twenty years and only moved everything to ear height when I moved from 7.1 to 5.1.2. I used the back surrounds as front heights in bounce mode. Occasionally, it sounded pretty good. Normally, not so much. Good placement is key and it must be right on or it just doesn't really work. Life happens, people move to new homes and the perfect speakers in the perfect room cannot be achieved. It doesn't mean things can't still sound good. So, being the cheapskate I am these days, I wanted a dirt cheap set of speakers that had a good rep. I decided on two pair of the Dayton Audio MK442's and the MK442 center channel and returned to a 5.1 system for the first time in many years. I blame/thank Gene and Steve Guttenberg for their Youtube videos on the Dayton Audio speakers. I didn't want to get new stands and didn't need to with four towers. I listen to my collection of DTS CD's, SACD's and DVD-Audio's often and like the music all around at ear level. It also still sounds good when watching movies. But, that may not be the case with different speakers. Now, Dolby Atmos music is available and I'm tempted to change things up again. Anyway, I remember THX speaker placement recommendations from the WOW laserdisc from olden times. Those were made when Dolby Pro Logic was the thing and surrounds were mono with sounds extracted from the fronts. Surrounds were ideally dipoles that were mounted higher than ear level. Now, we have object based sound going on. My question is, are the audio tracks and surround sound processes assuming that surrounds and back surrounds are installed at ear level now? Is room correction software in new gear compensating for older speaker placement setups. We know virtualizer processing for Dolby and DTS try to simulate height channels for systems that do not have them. Does the processing also compensate for surrounds and back surrounds that have been mounted high up since olden times and virtualize in reverse? I know, stupid questions to some I'm sure, but I can't stop wondering about it all. Sorry for carrying on so long. I hope you enjoy your speakers and get them positioned in the way that sounds best to you.
Basically no. The renderer is not compensating for old system layouts and speakers mounted up high. The Atmos/DTS-X renderers are made for the new spec. So while Atmos IS very forgiving with speaker placements, you’ll get much better performance by getting close.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I'm setting up a 5.1 surround sound system for the first time. I have the Jamo S 803 Home Cinema System (which I'm aware may or may not be kinda crappy apart from the front left/right speakers, but I got it for an absolute steal). The Jamo manual calls for setting the top of the side surround speakers 6 feet above the floor. This would put the center of the tweeter about 69 inches above the floor - which is 33 above a presumed 36 inch high listening level. Does this make sense? It seems too high to me.
Dolby spec, is to place the tweeter 60" above the floor. That is what I have done and it has worked out very well. The ceiling speakers are 108" above the floor. If they are too low they get obstructed by the chair backs.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Dolby spec, is to place the tweeter 60" above the floor. That is what I have done and it has worked out very well. The ceiling speakers are 108" above the floor. If they are too low they get obstructed by the chair backs.
Actually taking seating out of the equation(which is aided by moving them up a bit as you said) I believe the spec is H2(surround) is equal to H1(mains) or no more than H1x1.25. Mine are like H1x1.5 at 38” main tweeter and 57” side and rear surround tweeter height.
The norm has become to go a little higher than H1 for exactly what you said. Seat backs and other heads.
 
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